Which turbo
16 July 2007, 09:16 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Co. Durham
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which turbo
Not sure if I should spend 400 quid getting my td04 hybrid'd by andy forrest or just to buy a new td05 for 5 quid less.
Any suggestions? If anyone has had/driven cars with both turbos that would be extra helpful.
Any suggestions? If anyone has had/driven cars with both turbos that would be extra helpful.
17 July 2007, 12:51 AM
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
personally i would go down the tdo5 18g or 20g route will give u far more power that a hybrid tdo4 will it all depends on how much power u want to run and what your issues are with lag and so on...
17 July 2007, 11:39 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edinburgh (ish)
Posts: 8,089
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have an Andy F Hybrid TD04H fitted to my 01 WRX - here's the thread I started on it :
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ow-fitted.html
Broadly speaking , the TD05's give max power with some lag, the TD04H gives less power but with superb responsiveness and spool and a VF35 sits in between the two. I've certainly seen people on here complaining about the lag they have on 16Gs.
There isn't so much a "best turbo", it just depends what's most important to you !
Andy Mc
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...ow-fitted.html
Broadly speaking , the TD05's give max power with some lag, the TD04H gives less power but with superb responsiveness and spool and a VF35 sits in between the two. I've certainly seen people on here complaining about the lag they have on 16Gs.
There isn't so much a "best turbo", it just depends what's most important to you !
Andy Mc
Last edited by andythejock01wrx; 17 July 2007 at 11:42 PM.
18 July 2007, 10:14 AM
#7
As before depends what you want.
I had a DIY hybrid done for me - which I'd gone straight to Andy now, but hey. Think I ended up with the similar spec as his - if not quite as good and I'm chuffed to bits for a road car.
I'm looking at geniune 300+bhp / ftlbs which isn't close to a sorted TD05 set up, but it spools really well and you're less likely to get caught out in gears.
I chased an Evo FQ320 and was closing slightly flat out plus I had a passanger.
TD04 Hybrid, is starting to run out puff before redline though but only just.
I would say this of course but its best choice for me as 97 classic gearbox can be fragile 300+ftlbs, hopefully I've got best set up with reliability, lots of stories or TD05s eating gearboxes, and on the road you have to work the engine harder.
I'm near Watford - if your close your more than welcome for a ride before you choose
I had a DIY hybrid done for me - which I'd gone straight to Andy now, but hey. Think I ended up with the similar spec as his - if not quite as good and I'm chuffed to bits for a road car.
I'm looking at geniune 300+bhp / ftlbs which isn't close to a sorted TD05 set up, but it spools really well and you're less likely to get caught out in gears.
I chased an Evo FQ320 and was closing slightly flat out plus I had a passanger.
TD04 Hybrid, is starting to run out puff before redline though but only just.
I would say this of course but its best choice for me as 97 classic gearbox can be fragile 300+ftlbs, hopefully I've got best set up with reliability, lots of stories or TD05s eating gearboxes, and on the road you have to work the engine harder.
I'm near Watford - if your close your more than welcome for a ride before you choose
Trending Topics
18 July 2007, 10:20 AM
#8
Oh **** - Jonesy, just seen you're in Durham - sorry i'm crap ;-)
Andy's close to you - no choice IMHO for a road car, you have a wider spread of torque which is want you want on your lovely roads up there, headline figures aren't the be all and end all
Andy's close to you - no choice IMHO for a road car, you have a wider spread of torque which is want you want on your lovely roads up there, headline figures aren't the be all and end all
18 July 2007, 06:46 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Co. Durham
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love the early spool up it has now, but it just has no legs at all! I very rarely take the car over 5k revs becasue theres just no point, it feels like it has given me all it can by that point. So I defo need something with more legs. Saying that tho, I love the fact I can over take cars in 4th gear at 3k revs without the need to drop gears and rev the **** off it.
My mate has a uk turbo with a vf24 turbo running around 300bhp and that felt nice for the 5 mins he let me drive it. How does that turbo rank in terms of power vs lag
So I guess what I need is a turbo that still spools up without much lag, but will keep pulling towads the redline when I want it to (not very often to be honest, Im not a 'redline it' kind of driver THAT often)
My mate has a uk turbo with a vf24 turbo running around 300bhp and that felt nice for the 5 mins he let me drive it. How does that turbo rank in terms of power vs lag
So I guess what I need is a turbo that still spools up without much lag, but will keep pulling towads the redline when I want it to (not very often to be honest, Im not a 'redline it' kind of driver THAT often)
19 July 2007, 10:50 AM
#11
A VF24 is not as tough as a TD series but it is roller bearing.
On an STi 3Wagon it spools to 1 bar in 4th by 3,400 rpm when the turbo and up-pipe (wrapped/blanketed) are hot. The car has 335 bhp 333 ft lbs on V-Power and 2mls per litre but I would say the turbo is all done at that and producing hot air. It produces the same power at 1.45 bar as it does at 1.35 bar. I am sure it is far happier around 320 bhp. Reasonable spool and OK in the lag department.
On an STi 3Wagon it spools to 1 bar in 4th by 3,400 rpm when the turbo and up-pipe (wrapped/blanketed) are hot. The car has 335 bhp 333 ft lbs on V-Power and 2mls per litre but I would say the turbo is all done at that and producing hot air. It produces the same power at 1.45 bar as it does at 1.35 bar. I am sure it is far happier around 320 bhp. Reasonable spool and OK in the lag department.
19 July 2007, 12:32 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edinburgh (ish)
Posts: 8,089
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A VF24 is not as tough as a TD series but it is roller bearing.
On an STi 3Wagon it spools to 1 bar in 4th by 3,400 rpm when the turbo and up-pipe (wrapped/blanketed) are hot. The car has 335 bhp 333 ft lbs on V-Power and 2mls per litre but I would say the turbo is all done at that and producing hot air. It produces the same power at 1.45 bar as it does at 1.35 bar. I am sure it is far happier around 320 bhp. Reasonable spool and OK in the lag department.
On an STi 3Wagon it spools to 1 bar in 4th by 3,400 rpm when the turbo and up-pipe (wrapped/blanketed) are hot. The car has 335 bhp 333 ft lbs on V-Power and 2mls per litre but I would say the turbo is all done at that and producing hot air. It produces the same power at 1.45 bar as it does at 1.35 bar. I am sure it is far happier around 320 bhp. Reasonable spool and OK in the lag department.
19 July 2007, 06:23 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is your car still standard?
Fitting a PPP ecu to my car gave the TD4 a new lease of life,and the engine seemed much happier and felt as it was running creamier and less harsh if you know what I mean,with more torque and top end.
The torque difference is superb just what your after.
Assuming your car is standard a remap would give the same benefits.
If you read the Scooby mag project the Andy F modified turbo was not quite as powerful as a bigger a turbo, but in real world driving the car was moving faster quicker and the bigger turbo built up more power but a bit later but could not catch up with the slightly less powerful car which had started accelerating faster,sooner. i.e. 50 to 70 in 4th or 5th.
Its a really good artical.
It was found on a twisty road that if you did not know it very well you could use the torque of the TD4 turbo but with the more powerful car you get caught out in the wrong gear on a bend you did not know.
I suppose if you want a big rush of power go for the bigger turbo.
The modified TD4 with supportng mods would be my choice.
Go for the remap first, explain what you want, if you change the turbo at a later date the map can be tweaked to suit.
Fitting a PPP ecu to my car gave the TD4 a new lease of life,and the engine seemed much happier and felt as it was running creamier and less harsh if you know what I mean,with more torque and top end.
The torque difference is superb just what your after.
Assuming your car is standard a remap would give the same benefits.
If you read the Scooby mag project the Andy F modified turbo was not quite as powerful as a bigger a turbo, but in real world driving the car was moving faster quicker and the bigger turbo built up more power but a bit later but could not catch up with the slightly less powerful car which had started accelerating faster,sooner. i.e. 50 to 70 in 4th or 5th.
Its a really good artical.
It was found on a twisty road that if you did not know it very well you could use the torque of the TD4 turbo but with the more powerful car you get caught out in the wrong gear on a bend you did not know.
I suppose if you want a big rush of power go for the bigger turbo.
The modified TD4 with supportng mods would be my choice.
Go for the remap first, explain what you want, if you change the turbo at a later date the map can be tweaked to suit.
19 July 2007, 06:48 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edinburgh (ish)
Posts: 8,089
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
19 July 2007, 10:51 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Co. Durham
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is your car still standard?
Fitting a PPP ecu to my car gave the TD4 a new lease of life,and the engine seemed much happier and felt as it was running creamier and less harsh if you know what I mean,with more torque and top end.
The torque difference is superb just what your after.
Assuming your car is standard a remap would give the same benefits.
If you read the Scooby mag project the Andy F modified turbo was not quite as powerful as a bigger a turbo, but in real world driving the car was moving faster quicker and the bigger turbo built up more power but a bit later but could not catch up with the slightly less powerful car which had started accelerating faster,sooner. i.e. 50 to 70 in 4th or 5th.
Its a really good artical.
It was found on a twisty road that if you did not know it very well you could use the torque of the TD4 turbo but with the more powerful car you get caught out in the wrong gear on a bend you did not know.
I suppose if you want a big rush of power go for the bigger turbo.
The modified TD4 with supportng mods would be my choice.
Go for the remap first, explain what you want, if you change the turbo at a later date the map can be tweaked to suit.
Fitting a PPP ecu to my car gave the TD4 a new lease of life,and the engine seemed much happier and felt as it was running creamier and less harsh if you know what I mean,with more torque and top end.
The torque difference is superb just what your after.
Assuming your car is standard a remap would give the same benefits.
If you read the Scooby mag project the Andy F modified turbo was not quite as powerful as a bigger a turbo, but in real world driving the car was moving faster quicker and the bigger turbo built up more power but a bit later but could not catch up with the slightly less powerful car which had started accelerating faster,sooner. i.e. 50 to 70 in 4th or 5th.
Its a really good artical.
It was found on a twisty road that if you did not know it very well you could use the torque of the TD4 turbo but with the more powerful car you get caught out in the wrong gear on a bend you did not know.
I suppose if you want a big rush of power go for the bigger turbo.
The modified TD4 with supportng mods would be my choice.
Go for the remap first, explain what you want, if you change the turbo at a later date the map can be tweaked to suit.
Yes car is standard at the mo, however my full decat and panel filter has just arrived today, and I have an apexi ecu on its way, should be here next week. Im going to get Andy F to remap it (if I can get in touch with him) I was considering getting the td04 hybrid done by him at the same time, but now im thinking maybe just the remap to start with
20 July 2007, 09:24 AM
#17
What is the effect of trying to get a little too much out of any given turbo ?
This is not good for the car and the turbo life expectancy is severely limited.
In severe cases the compressor blades can bend and if they fly off it gets interesting as internal engine damage can/will be the outcome and the turbo can be thrown in the scrap bin.
The VF series turbos are not repairable as such in that the cartrige with the shaft roller bearings to take comp and exh wheel is sealed so it is a cartridge replacement which is not cheap.
With great care you can open the cartridge and even replace the ***** in the roller bearing but it is not recognised practice.
Consider a VF34 or VF28 or TD05. All will produce more than a TD04hybrid and have reasonable spool.
Last edited by harvey; 21 July 2007 at 08:34 AM.
20 July 2007, 11:37 AM
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Starting with map sounds best option, you will be amazed with the difference.
My PPP ecu was good an Andy F map would be even better.
Suggest you change pipe into intercooler to an uprated one.
Prodrive changed it on PPP package so must be quite important to do it.
Let us know how you get on.
My PPP ecu was good an Andy F map would be even better.
Suggest you change pipe into intercooler to an uprated one.
Prodrive changed it on PPP package so must be quite important to do it.
Let us know how you get on.
20 July 2007, 12:23 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edinburgh (ish)
Posts: 8,089
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The turbo will overspeed and produce more heat than it would normally do which on a TMIC will result in very high charge temperatures. A long way past 70 deg C believe it or not.
This is not good for the car and the turbo life expectancy is severely limited.
In severe cases the compressor blades can bend and if they fly off it gets interesting as internal engine damage can/will be the outcome and the turbo can be thrown in the scrap bin.
The TD series turbos are not repairable as such in that the cartrige with the shaft roller bearings to take comp and exh wheel is sealed so it is a cartridge replacement which is not cheap.
With great care you can open the cartridge and even replace the ***** in the roller bearing but it is not recognised practice.
This is not good for the car and the turbo life expectancy is severely limited.
In severe cases the compressor blades can bend and if they fly off it gets interesting as internal engine damage can/will be the outcome and the turbo can be thrown in the scrap bin.
The TD series turbos are not repairable as such in that the cartrige with the shaft roller bearings to take comp and exh wheel is sealed so it is a cartridge replacement which is not cheap.
With great care you can open the cartridge and even replace the ***** in the roller bearing but it is not recognised practice.
20 July 2007, 10:50 PM
#21
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I have never known a TD04 or 05 series turbo to overspeed to the point it has damaged itself and believe me when I say I have pushed them to their absolute limit during testing !
Andy.
20 July 2007, 11:11 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edinburgh (ish)
Posts: 8,089
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another late night on Scoobynet, eh ?
Andy Mc
21 July 2007, 08:39 AM
#28
At post 11 this is what I said in answer to a question:
I have edited my typo above to avoid confusion for anyone who skim reads.
Now corrected.
I see you can still find time Andy to continue to monitor my posts. Thanks for clearing up the typo which may have confused those that had not read the thread from the beginning.
A VF24 is not as tough as a TD series but it is roller bearing.
Now corrected.
The vf series turbos are not repairable as such in that the cartrige with the shaft roller bearings to take comp and exh wheel is sealed so it is a cartridge replacement which is not cheap.
With great care you can open the cartridge and even replace the ***** in the roller bearing but it is not recognised practice.
With great care you can open the cartridge and even replace the ***** in the roller bearing but it is not recognised practice.
I see you can still find time Andy to continue to monitor my posts. Thanks for clearing up the typo which may have confused those that had not read the thread from the beginning.
Last edited by harvey; 21 July 2007 at 08:44 AM.
21 July 2007, 09:34 AM
#30
Subaru Tuning Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 7.74 @179 mph 1/4 mile - road legal
Posts: 6,654
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I only feel the need to correct your posts when you attempt to redirect a potential customer away from one of my products.
Your post is still inaccurate and misleading. I'll leave it to you to work out your error this time.
I recall the day you were in my MY03 WRX and you were MOST impressed with the performance of the TD04 hybrid as you grasped tighter on to the seat !
Andy
Your post is still inaccurate and misleading. I'll leave it to you to work out your error this time.
I recall the day you were in my MY03 WRX and you were MOST impressed with the performance of the TD04 hybrid as you grasped tighter on to the seat !
Andy