Message for JasonM
02 October 2000, 12:21 AM
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Thanks for keeping (most of) us amused.
Nothing like ill informed and poorly put and sometimes conflicting arguments (by you) to raise a smile....
I've got a few observations, though:-
You say Imprezas are too soft and lack traction on 15 inch rims. By your own admission you're brother's car has 17 inch rims and suspension so stiff the MOT tester bent the wing slightly. So, how do you know?
Now, having bottled the challenge of going up against a turbo on the track (funny, though, you were happy enough to do it on the road) you want to put your modified Cavalier up against a standard Impreza Sport. Hardly comparing like with like, now, are we?
I won't even go into the issues of racing on public roads. I think we can agree that just because the Impreza couldn't (or didn't want to) keep up with you, that you can hardly use that example as justification for your argument??
Hmmm the most interesting one yet. Apparently your brother is a tosser. Well, according to you anyway. If I may quote you:- "What’s happens with the impreza is that people see it on TV doing the rallying, the motorpress get hold of it, and say it's the dogs. THEN people that are not use to driving a fast car, buy one and think it's the dogs. It's a tossers car lets face it, driven by tossers that would normally never have a fast car"
Perhaps you would like to apologise to him now?
Oh - and do I detect a hint of envy creeping in there perhaps? In any event there is no need to get to that level - another contradiction on your part.
I will agree with you that Cavaliers and indeed many Vauxhall products do and can be made to handle well - despite what has been said by many Subaru owners on here. I have occasion to regularly drive a new model Astra Estate (fairly basic model) and it handles superbly - way better in my opinion than most of its competition. I would add, however, that a Vauxhall dealer pricipal I know rates my car higher than ANY vauxhall he has ever driven (both standard and modified) for both handling and performance (with the exception of a Lotus Carlton - 'nuff said)
Having had the pleasure to drive cavalier GSi 2000's around the old Ingleston Circuit (anyone remember that?) I found them to handle very well. For me, the 4*4 handled way better and was able to lap considerably faster in my hands than the front drive equivelant. Four wheel drifts were a pleasure. My Impreza would, however, lap comfortably faster then either.
I am happy to admit that my (unmodified) Uk scoob is not the best handling car I have driven. That accolade falls to a well sorted Mini I once owned. It is, however, the fastest car I have ever driven cross country, period. As many have said, handling is very subjective. What works for one does not necessarily work for another.
In summary, you may have noticed by now that the board does not tolerate "my car is better than your car because (insert unfounded drivel)". If you keep your arguments lucid and realistic, you will find it pays dividends at the end of the day.
But then that wouldn't be half as funny.....
D
[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited 02 October 2000).]
Nothing like ill informed and poorly put and sometimes conflicting arguments (by you) to raise a smile....
I've got a few observations, though:-
You say Imprezas are too soft and lack traction on 15 inch rims. By your own admission you're brother's car has 17 inch rims and suspension so stiff the MOT tester bent the wing slightly. So, how do you know?
Now, having bottled the challenge of going up against a turbo on the track (funny, though, you were happy enough to do it on the road) you want to put your modified Cavalier up against a standard Impreza Sport. Hardly comparing like with like, now, are we?
I won't even go into the issues of racing on public roads. I think we can agree that just because the Impreza couldn't (or didn't want to) keep up with you, that you can hardly use that example as justification for your argument??
Hmmm the most interesting one yet. Apparently your brother is a tosser. Well, according to you anyway. If I may quote you:- "What’s happens with the impreza is that people see it on TV doing the rallying, the motorpress get hold of it, and say it's the dogs. THEN people that are not use to driving a fast car, buy one and think it's the dogs. It's a tossers car lets face it, driven by tossers that would normally never have a fast car"
Perhaps you would like to apologise to him now?
Oh - and do I detect a hint of envy creeping in there perhaps? In any event there is no need to get to that level - another contradiction on your part.
I will agree with you that Cavaliers and indeed many Vauxhall products do and can be made to handle well - despite what has been said by many Subaru owners on here. I have occasion to regularly drive a new model Astra Estate (fairly basic model) and it handles superbly - way better in my opinion than most of its competition. I would add, however, that a Vauxhall dealer pricipal I know rates my car higher than ANY vauxhall he has ever driven (both standard and modified) for both handling and performance (with the exception of a Lotus Carlton - 'nuff said)
Having had the pleasure to drive cavalier GSi 2000's around the old Ingleston Circuit (anyone remember that?) I found them to handle very well. For me, the 4*4 handled way better and was able to lap considerably faster in my hands than the front drive equivelant. Four wheel drifts were a pleasure. My Impreza would, however, lap comfortably faster then either.
I am happy to admit that my (unmodified) Uk scoob is not the best handling car I have driven. That accolade falls to a well sorted Mini I once owned. It is, however, the fastest car I have ever driven cross country, period. As many have said, handling is very subjective. What works for one does not necessarily work for another.
In summary, you may have noticed by now that the board does not tolerate "my car is better than your car because (insert unfounded drivel)". If you keep your arguments lucid and realistic, you will find it pays dividends at the end of the day.
But then that wouldn't be half as funny.....
D
[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited 02 October 2000).]
02 October 2000, 12:54 AM
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See it's like this. People try and make out the Impreza is one of the best handling cars on the road. I'm just here to try and put some sense in that claim.
I'm not here to say my 136bhp car is faster than a 211bhp. But I am here to say the Impreza is overrated (for it's handling), and a Cavalier with full Koni Kit can out handle it.
Also I’m not on about rally racks, I’m on about circuit track, which I have offered to take my car to, but as yet no will take up my offer.
You can slate me, but at least I’m willing to put my car on the track. You can call me a Muppet, but unlike yourselves I’m not gutless.
I'm not here to say my 136bhp car is faster than a 211bhp. But I am here to say the Impreza is overrated (for it's handling), and a Cavalier with full Koni Kit can out handle it.
Also I’m not on about rally racks, I’m on about circuit track, which I have offered to take my car to, but as yet no will take up my offer.
You can slate me, but at least I’m willing to put my car on the track. You can call me a Muppet, but unlike yourselves I’m not gutless.
02 October 2000, 01:55 PM
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Er, yeah, I think we figured what you were trying to get at.
Your answer kinda proves my point though.
And YOUR definition of handling was based on speed, not anyone elses. Oh, and I haven't called you anything yet, muppet or otherwise.
You may have had a valid point, but I'm afraid you've spouted so much drivel now that you've shot yourself in the foot.
Anyway, JasonM, clearly you are incapable of reasoned argument, so perhaps you will understand this:
Stop being an ****.
D
[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited 02 October 2000).]
Your answer kinda proves my point though.
And YOUR definition of handling was based on speed, not anyone elses. Oh, and I haven't called you anything yet, muppet or otherwise.
You may have had a valid point, but I'm afraid you've spouted so much drivel now that you've shot yourself in the foot.
Anyway, JasonM, clearly you are incapable of reasoned argument, so perhaps you will understand this:
Stop being an ****.
D
[This message has been edited by Diablo (edited 02 October 2000).]
02 October 2000, 03:01 PM
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I can't hold back any longer! 
Hi Jason
tell you what...
If it's handling you're want to prove, why not book in for Don Palmer's "wetter the better" course, held at the wet "handling" circuit at MIRA.
This circuit is designed to test handling alone, but test it to it's limits.
It would be fantastic to drive a car that out-handles an impreza round there as very few cars do.
Re your comments about your brother's impreza not handling. AWD in general does require a different skill set in terms of limit handling. Much more work has to be done on when on the brakes as the AWD cannot independently provide power to one end of the car. LFB is also of use when on the limit.
If your brother says his car can be out-driven by a Cavalier he is mistaken.
Best regards
Simon
Hi Jason
tell you what...
If it's handling you're want to prove, why not book in for Don Palmer's "wetter the better" course, held at the wet "handling" circuit at MIRA.
This circuit is designed to test handling alone, but test it to it's limits.
It would be fantastic to drive a car that out-handles an impreza round there as very few cars do.
Re your comments about your brother's impreza not handling. AWD in general does require a different skill set in terms of limit handling. Much more work has to be done on when on the brakes as the AWD cannot independently provide power to one end of the car. LFB is also of use when on the limit.
If your brother says his car can be out-driven by a Cavalier he is mistaken.
Best regards
Simon
02 October 2000, 03:18 PM
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I want to come on Don Palmers wetter the better course too !! I emailed him last week but got no response (Don - are you listening).
I will come along with my badly handling standard MY98 Scoob, I would be very interested in seeing how well the Cav handles in comparison.
Gary
(My friend will come in his Porsche Carrera 3.2 as we'll if you need any more pursuading
I will come along with my badly handling standard MY98 Scoob, I would be very interested in seeing how well the Cav handles in comparison.
Gary
(My friend will come in his Porsche Carrera 3.2 as we'll if you need any more pursuading
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02 October 2000, 03:21 PM
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Ok, I cant stay away any more...
JASONM seems determined to prove his cavalier is a better (??) car than any of our Scoobies. Better is so subjective - I dont want a modified cavalier in my driveway - however quick it is round a corner. I also like the different challenge 4wd gives you - most of us have grown out of fwd.
JASONM seems determined to prove his cavalier is a better (??) car than any of our Scoobies. Better is so subjective - I dont want a modified cavalier in my driveway - however quick it is round a corner. I also like the different challenge 4wd gives you - most of us have grown out of fwd.
03 October 2000, 08:06 AM
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OH NO ITS TRUE!!!!
I was left standing on a road the other day by a modded NOVA!!!! It must have had a full KONI set up on because I was doing the speed limit and he went tearing past me like I was standing still a good 30 mph faster I would say.......IN A 30 ZONE T*&T!!!!
I was left standing on a road the other day by a modded NOVA!!!! It must have had a full KONI set up on because I was doing the speed limit and he went tearing past me like I was standing still a good 30 mph faster I would say.......IN A 30 ZONE T*&T!!!!
29 November 2000, 12:19 AM
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Gary,
I seriously doubt it, but we managed to find it anyway
[editted due to other posts appearing before this one]
[This message has been edited by Robertio (edited 29 November 2000).]
I seriously doubt it, but we managed to find it anyway
[editted due to other posts appearing before this one]
[This message has been edited by Robertio (edited 29 November 2000).]
29 November 2000, 12:52 AM
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that's it, I can't resist...
What complete and utter drivel. What the hell is it with some people? Are they green with envy or something?
Cavalier - saggy old rep mobile that is way past its sell-buy date. I had a GSi2000 for a while and it was ok, 5 years ago.
A3 - boring Audi that shares way too many parts with VW, Skoda, Seat, even Simca is probably in there. Rob B's post with specs says it all.
So girls, if Imprezas are so cr*p and driven by t*ssers lets see your Cavalier, A3 or whatever do the biz. Basically put up or shut up.
Bring the Cavalier on Jason. Even my humble WRX would kick your *** to the moon and back, an STi would utterly destroy you in terms of both handling and performance.
If you want to see how poorly the Impreza handles go and read this:
What complete and utter drivel. What the hell is it with some people? Are they green with envy or something?
Cavalier - saggy old rep mobile that is way past its sell-buy date. I had a GSi2000 for a while and it was ok, 5 years ago.
A3 - boring Audi that shares way too many parts with VW, Skoda, Seat, even Simca is probably in there. Rob B's post with specs says it all.
So girls, if Imprezas are so cr*p and driven by t*ssers lets see your Cavalier, A3 or whatever do the biz. Basically put up or shut up.
Bring the Cavalier on Jason. Even my humble WRX would kick your *** to the moon and back, an STi would utterly destroy you in terms of both handling and performance.
If you want to see how poorly the Impreza handles go and read this:
29 November 2000, 12:56 AM
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and more!
Here is a quote from the Autocar feature with the Impreza...
'Second, a properly sorted All Wheel Drive car like the Impreza will blitz any two-wheel drive rival in virtually any objective handling contest'.
Perhaps Autocar are biased, perhaps they all have Imprezas, perhaps you lot should face the truth.
Here is a quote from the Autocar feature with the Impreza...
'Second, a properly sorted All Wheel Drive car like the Impreza will blitz any two-wheel drive rival in virtually any objective handling contest'.
Perhaps Autocar are biased, perhaps they all have Imprezas, perhaps you lot should face the truth.
29 November 2000, 10:19 AM
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ID JUST LIKE TO SAY YOU ALL GO ON ABOUT IMPREZA`S ON THE TRACK THE AUDI S3 WILL **** ALL OVER IMPREZAS ON OR OFF THE TRACK WITH STYLE WHICH IS SOMETHING IMPREZA DRIVERS WILL NEVER KNOW ABOUT.U DRIVE JAP CRAP.THE CARS DONT EVEN LOOK GOOD AND HAVE NO CABIN QUALITY
29 November 2000, 11:33 AM
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A warm welcome back to the BBS to Audi S3 owner - so good to be able to read reasoned and intelligent debate again.
I am sure most of us would love to take up your challenge to let you destroy us on the track. Let me just remind you of a few stats first:
STI IV v S3
BHP 276 v 210
Max Torque (lb ft) 253 v 199
0-60mph (secs) 4.9 v 6.8
Must give you victory regarding the cabin - this is of course the most important thing to take into consideration when choosing which high performance car to buy
.
[This message has been edited by Rob B (edited 29 November 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Rob B (edited 29 November 2000).]
I am sure most of us would love to take up your challenge to let you destroy us on the track. Let me just remind you of a few stats first
:STI IV v S3
BHP 276 v 210
Max Torque (lb ft) 253 v 199
0-60mph (secs) 4.9 v 6.8
Must give you victory regarding the cabin - this is of course the most important thing to take into consideration when choosing which high performance car to buy
.[This message has been edited by Rob B (edited 29 November 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Rob B (edited 29 November 2000).]
29 November 2000, 11:53 AM
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Jason,
Could you remind me which track it was that you were willing to take your car to as I cannot remember?
I'm sure there will be someone on here who stays close enough to come along.
Or even better next Easter the Nurburgring, quite a few of us are planning on going, be nice to see you there.
Could you remind me which track it was that you were willing to take your car to as I cannot remember?
I'm sure there will be someone on here who stays close enough to come along.
Or even better next Easter the Nurburgring, quite a few of us are planning on going, be nice to see you there.
29 November 2000, 05:34 PM
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..........Yeah but Cavaliers with Koni's ROCK!
(seriously nothing wrong with Koni's)
Nothing wrong with VWs and SEATS and SKODAS are much improved thanks to VAG.
Imprezas are related to Justy's - put that in yer intercooler and smoke it
Sometimes even Scooby owners are so far up their own ***** they should be able to smell nothing but their own ****.
Sunil
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 29 November 2000).]
(seriously nothing wrong with Koni's)
Nothing wrong with VWs and SEATS and SKODAS are much improved thanks to VAG.
Imprezas are related to Justy's - put that in yer intercooler and smoke it
Sometimes even Scooby owners are so far up their own ***** they should be able to smell nothing but their own ****.
Sunil
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 29 November 2000).]
29 November 2000, 06:54 PM
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I know why JASON M and AUDI S3 OWNER dont you build a car out of both of yours and maybe you might keep up for a couple of hundred yards in your new FAST CORNERING, STYLISHLY designed supercar.
Even better why dont you race each other because if you pair were to race any scoob,lancer or gti-r you will looking to see where they have gone track or cross country and if you are still intrested please contact me to arrange a date???
Is the CAV your dads old car????
Even better why dont you race each other because if you pair were to race any scoob,lancer or gti-r you will looking to see where they have gone track or cross country and if you are still intrested please contact me to arrange a date???
Is the CAV your dads old car????