DrEvil

********* removed ************
(was having a bad day, and wasnt objective about anything!)

[This message has been edited by DrEvil (edited 23 November 2000).]

DrEvil

PS. the oil filter & sump plug for the next service were supplied FOC with the rear spoiler as a softener.. hmmm..

JoeyDeacon

WOW!! I bet that saving £11 or so made up for the wait for the spoiler!

DrEvil

My point exactly J-D, nuff said...



[This message has been edited by DrEvil (edited 23 November 2000).]

Josh L

With all due respect, although mine has not been problem free, I think you're over-reacting on one or two points.

The brake vents, have been a source of much debate from the time they appeared. What a ludicrous colour to use, but not P1 specific.

The air dam, by it's very nature is going to collect all available debris. The plastic film they apply to them helps a bit, but there really isn't anyway of avoiding the chips.

As for the understeer, I can't say I've found it any different to any other Scoob. In fact it's a great deal more difficult to unsettle than the standard UK model.
And as for the quick rack, I understand from Mike Wood, that it was tried but proved unsatisfactory.

Before you comment on your loss of time/money, I would point out that, at present, I am sticking to Listers in Worcester, which is a 170+ round trip each time there's been a problem so I'm in the same boat myself.

However I would take issue with Subaru over what they offered you as a softener. Have a go at them! Their attitude towards owners is trully apalling! They really don't deserve to be marketing cars like ours, their level customer service is even lower than Ford/Vauxhall. They have a loyal customer base, a good product, and all they do is crap on us from a great height.

Barstewards

DrEvil

OK, so I was being a little picky this morning...

But to have a second spoiler was a pain, and the vents are just so damn tacky... I'm getting the geometry checked as it may be potholes responsible for lack of steering.

I think you are right, as regards Subaru being an issue here, they generally dont seem to listen to their customer base and find out what issues they have.

Considering the cost of Armour-fend (not a lot), to do the rest of the spoiler (lights down) wouldnt have cost them much more really would it..

I admit some of the comments are inherent to subarus in general, so sorry Prodrive, I take some of it back.

Cheers, Alex

Jerome

Alex,

You forgot to mention the crooked number plate.

Jerome.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

And the colour!!

mutant_matt

RE: the understeer. As this is a feature of the standard car, wouldn't you expect the P1 which costs approx £9000 more to have improved on this - off the top of my head the Powerstation improvement for this costs about £100!! Now that's value for money!

Rum*

Guys,

After my thread of this morning responding the the Donnington Meet for prospective P1's I don't think I'll even start on this one...everyone knows my feelings...but I thought I just stick a post anyway

Rum

chuckster

Guys from Prodrive have commented previously about the understeer issues. This is deliberately 'dialled in' to make the car safer and is considered a positive thing by the majority of drivers, it lets you know you are going too fast and is more easily correctable than oversteer. If your driving preferences are for less understeer, and you are a more competant than average driver, then, as stated above, spend your £100 and get the bumpsteer done. However, this modification will make driving the car more demanding, not less. We've seen enough lift off oversteer stories recently to make me worry about people aggressively adjusting their geometry. (Flame suit on)
Regards,
Chuck

chiark

Chuckster: not a flame, just a question.

Because the cars are set up for "safe" understeer, is this why people push on, get into troubles and lift off to rather catastrophic effect? This is the natural reaction as Rum has said, despite wetter the better, track days and all that lark.

If some of this understeer tendency is dialled out and the car is more apt to twitch, might people know a bit more about what's happening?

I guess there'll never be a concensus on this one...

chuckster

I believe that by the time you've got the car twitching you are close enough to the limit that you would suffer from the same problem with lift off as you would if you were encountering extreme understeer. Recite this mantra whilst next on a run, slow in, fast out; slow in, fast out.
C man

ARRON BIRD

All the comments posted above have been covered by myself since I took ownership on July 1st,
I class myself as a competent driver and will not bore you with the hows and whys.
I am not a stisfied P1 owner and I believe there are a few more like me.
My car has covered 6000 miles now and is my normal day to day transport.
The front of my car is a nice blend of blue and speccled white. If I had bought a BMW, which was so very nearly reality, then I`m sure the stone chips would not be as bad as BMW use a far superior paint a quality control than Subaru.
When I parted up with my £34K I expected some sort of build quality but alas its a Subaru!
I paid extra for the brake upgrade kit which to be frank is a waste of money.
The disks were cracked after 3500 miles and the brakes drone all the time. Whatever **** is in the construction of the pads it is eating into my wheels despite all the cleaning and countless bottles of various brands if cleaning products.
Lights crap!
18" whells should have been on for even the standard price of the car.
Backbox should also have been fitted within the cost.
The dealer I bought it from was crap(Near Slough!)
I paid my £100 to PS to get the bumpsteer done and it has improved it but it still understeers in an unacceptable fashion.
I have spun it out 4 times now without contact with anything but the car is NOT an easy car to drive due to its understeer,lack of grip due to skinny crappy tyres and slow steering rack!
I understand that a lot of P1 owners will never drive their cars to the max but I wish that I had never bought it and thats the truth.
I wish I had bought an Evo,saved money and got a propper drivers car!I owned an Evo 5 for 2 years.
I will run the P1 for three years until its time to change it and yes I enjoy its outright speed but I feel somewhat taken for a ride. I even drove the Prodrive car and still bought one!
If the car had all the bits on it for the launch price then i think that it is justified but all the extras well......
Roll on my M3 in 3 years time.
I will not buy another subaru and thats for sure.
Regards Arron.

Rum*

"...slow in, fast out...slow in, fast out..." I've been practicing that for years now...and my girlfriend still says.... whoops...you didn't mean that did you...you mean cornering *G*...he he...sorry...weas getting quite carried away....

*got coat and leaving - lost the plot completely*

ARRON BIRD

Tom I think you lost the plot m8!
Glad to see I`m not the only one with sour grapes!

DrEvil

just for general info, some excuses... er.. I mean reasons I've had for the :

17" on instead of 18" - euro law dictates snow chains should be able to be fitted to the wheels, the 18"s didnt allow this..

Backbox - noise regulations, euro law dictates it had to be quieter than the Prodrive exhaust made it.. hence the STi one

Breaks - no idea.

Most of my complains are re: general build quality and customer service, the dealers can only tell you what they've been told all in all, so they arent really to blame, just take the brunt of the customer complaints.

All in all, it is a pleasure to drive, the pros & cons of understeer I accept, I'm not the most accomplished driver, but then I've not just got my license either, owned a fair few cars and average 25K miles a year.

The P1 is comfortable for long journeys and good fun.

The reason I've commented, is down to the fact so many P1 owners seem to have been messed around in various ways..

Ah well, all-in-all I love the car, just got some bug-bears about things..

cheers, Alex

PS. Thanks for the trackday cover Rum*

jason b

arron,
I believe that from the cars point of view what you need to do is instead of talking your car to the track or on long sweepy roads you should venture out late at night on some twisty mountain roads or back of beyond country lanes which is what the car is all about plus you cant stick the back end out with your evos to any fun degree.
What i found is that the performance of the engine increases up until about 10000 miles ( which was confirmed by prodrive ) considerably.
stick with it mate or come on a day/night driving with me and i will change your mind.

DazV

Aaron,

Appreciate your honesty. Interesting comments, which I'll take on board when I look at one next year.

As for your wheels, I think Mike Wood from ProDrive was on here trying to explain whats been going wrong for the P1 owners and their caked on wheels cr@p...

Apparently he says, under NO circumstances do you wash those wheels with a 3rd party cleaning solution (Wonder Wheels, etc). He reckons it breaks down the lacquer and lets the brake dust fuse onto the wheels. He advised only to wash with good old soap and water.

Go figure!

W9GTR

Jason
I think if you went on a day/night drive on a twisty mountain road(aint many of them round here) with Arron the only thing you'd be changing is your underware upon leaving the car.
Arron drives his car to the max, I know I've been in it enough times including a spin out in the dry. Have u ever driven an EVO? momentum oversteer is a natural consequence when pushing an EVO to the limit which with the yaw control corrects itself to an extent. In order to get the P1 to oversteer you have to either (a) lift off mid bend at full tilt (not recommended) or (b) upset the rear end of the car by turning out aggresively just before turn in while trail braking, if you can catch it with the slow rack you should manage a drift of some description as you re apply the loud pedal but it's not progressive oversteer like you would get in say a rear wheel drive car.
I can only asume that u must pedal your car very gently choosing to take in the views rather than push on which is probably the sensible option, but then why buy a P1 a Volvo is far more sensible.
Cheers
Steve

W9GTR

sorry I forgot (c) apply generous helping of habdbrake on turn in!!!!
Steve

W9GTR

By the way before anyone starts screaming for my ********* to be chopped off and fried up with bacon I think it only fair to point out that I am a southern shandy drinking poofta who's had more than one glass too many of vino collapso!! so don't take my ramblings too seriously just kidding you on
Cheers...hic
Steve

Wassup

I'm inclined to agree with Aaron about the Evo - not perfect but it's a much better sorted package 'straight from the box' than the P1 and no need to spend £7k to make it right (WR spec).

Wassup.

Rum*

W9GTR,

Glad to see you enjoy the plonk...not Arrons by any chance??? ....

I thought you only bought decent stuff Arron???

How you finding your car W9GTR??

Rum

Jonathan

I'm now entering my last 24 hours of P1 ownership so might as well post my thoughts.

Bad Points of P1

Third rear spoiler now due
Chips on front spoiler
Front spoiler too low for todays roads
Not the long distance cruiser I need
Attention of the Max Power Brigade

Good points

Better than my 4 previous Impreza's
Handling
Brakes
Performance
SMILE factor
Attention of the Max Power Brigade

I for one love the way the car is set up. Maybe its because I'm Mr Average, or just drive at lower speed than anyone else, but understeer has not got in the way of my enjoyment. Its never spun on me or given me a hairy moment (Unlike my old STI V). I've had no problems with the Alcon brakes apart from some judder on a track day. No droning etc.

Price wise I've no real complaints apart from the fact that the Public does seem unwilling to part with £32k for either an EVO or P1 !(Ralliart now give discounts on new cars, and look at the saving on a six month old car. Looks like £28k would be a better price (but remember all car prices have realigned since the announcement of the P1)

The main thing that has got to me a bit with the P1 is IM. Greed seems to have got in the way. 500 should have been produced not 1000. This would, as with the RB5 and other limited editions have kept resale values high. The front spoiler that now has Amourfend fitted as std will not be retrofitted by IM FOC, yet they expect me to come in for a second time to get another rear spoiler fitted (Adams did make an offer of their own back to sort it).

Main thing is the top boys need replacing. If the UK is the Impreza's biggest market how come they let such an ugly car be released on the public (MY01). Even my 2 year old could have pointed out the problems. Then to cap it all they order sport seats instead of buckets. I just hope they learn from the mistake and make sure that the P2 (will there be one ?) is handled better. They need to learn that the type of buyer for a £30,000 car expects that bit more. It would be nice to be informed about things officially such as the new STI and IM's intentions rather than the guessing game.

Maybe all P1 owners should let Sam Burton know their thoughts ?

Still after the drive to Worcester to give P11 WRX to its new owner on Friday I'll miss it as it been the best car I've ever owned.

Jonathan

PS Tom if your reading this tonight I'll phone through the new car details tomorrow !!.

Rum*

Jonathan....read it...will await the call..

C U

W9GTR

Rum
Not Arrons tonight unfortunately, nothing tastes as sweet as wine bought by someone else.
The car is getting better by the day thanks mate, mind you it was a bit of a handfull when I first got it as I didn't have any previous experience of RWD cars so I have been introduced to Mr. fishtail as DeSlim calls him on many occasions. Glad to say now I've got the ***** to keep my right foot planted and have managed to have some serious sideways fun. On empty roads late at night obviously !!!
Trouble is my confidence builds to the point where I believe however unlikely that I am invincible (90 degree left, uphill, dodgy camber, pi55ing down with rain....loose bottle.....ditch here we come...sh** that was close as I unceremoniously fluke my way out of situation wagging my tail faster than Arrons dog at dinner time!!
Have to take you out some time
Steve

RVeiga

Well since everyone is pointing out their thoughts on the P1 - may as well.

I have had mine since August 1st - just over 6K miles.

Various mods:

SS Down Pipe - A real must
ITG Panel Filter - Why not?
AP 6 Pots - For the same price as the prodrive brakes...Trust me they work!!
P1 rear Box
18" wheels
Bumpsteer - Another real Must

All in All very happy with it. The only gripe is the quality of the paid. Don't all laugh BUT here goes -- driving home down the A2 approx 50 mph during rush hour - some little pr1ck throws an EGG (yes a bloody egg) across the road. It hits my rear passenger wing. I clean it the next day the egg all does - but wait it has left me with a nice set of approx 100 chips where the egg hit the car in a nice circular fashion.

Never mind...bloody good fun to drive. And when the kids get in it they don't feel that we are on square wheels....

On yes why is that astra/fiesta (and the likes) drivers seen to like having a go. There is nothing clever or skillful about overtaking through traffic down the inside on a motorway just to get 10 meters ahead...one of these days I shall have to slap one of you.....

(right got that of my chest also)

PS .... Still very happy with it.....

I have also been told that there will be not IMpreza Prodrive car until after the STi is offitially imported into the UK in 2002.

Rum*

W9GTR...a ride...would love it...will have to arrange a date sometime..

All the best

Tom

DrEvil

Anyone else noticed the P1 rear spoiler paint is a different friggin' shade of blue.. just noticed today!

Unless the difference in wax used on the car (WaxWizzard) and the spoiler (Dealer's) makes a whole lot of difference, cant see it myself...

So it looks like a replacement rear spoiler is on the way!

Can anyone recommend an Armourfend fitter in Guildford area? Whole front spoiler needs doing...

Cheers, Alex