robski

Dont know how good it will be, but tonights hard cash programme on BBC1 at 7.30 has an article on the hidden costs of running an imported car.

Ive seen at least 1 episode of the current series, and its been factually accurate.

(its a bit watchdog, but theres no Ann Robinson, and they do go into a decent amount of detail)

robski

chiark

Personal experience of hidden costs of an EU import UK spec MY00 with aircon, metallic paint:

Extra costs not included:

The warranty length is the big one, and the warranty in the first year can be different too. The Dutch don't look kindly upon replacing anything consumable (break discs, clutches,...) under warranty which the UK wouldn't blink twice over.

Extra on insurance: none.
Extra on servicing: none.
Trouble with dealer: none (thankfully, though some have had some sour grapes...)

If interested, sign up to the importingimprezas list at egroups.com

* Why is washing powder so much cheaper in France? Is it subsidised in an effort to get people to use it?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

* Doesn't seem to work tho'

Ooooh, slap my wrists!

MattN

Just like to clear up the first registration fee point.

All cars have to pay this fee when (strangly enough) they are first registered in the UK. You always have to pay it no matter if it's UK or import. So I don't think it's an "extra" cost to imports. The UK cars just have it included in the 'on the road' price.

MattN

PhilH

Rob

You forgot the locking wheel nuts (all of 15 quid)!

LitchfieldImports

Oh my god I've got a GREY IMPORT aaarrrgghhh

Moray, I am afraid I am going to have to recall your dangerous and illegal car

[This message has been edited by iainlit (edited 20 November 2000).]

Justin

What a crock of sh*te!

Illegally imported my ****! Customs & Excise and the VAT man didn't complain too much when I imported my WRX.

And bloody Quentin Wilson!! Talk about a hypocrite!!

Sorry - rant over.

[This message has been edited by Justin (edited 20 November 2000).]

ian/555

more holes than a thing with holes in!

Have your say tomorrow night @ 19:30 by going to

MorayMackenzie

Iain,

It's only the driver that's dangerous and illegal! (Assuming my diff doesnt destroy itself, that is... ho hum...)

Moray

Chris L

Caught the end of the article and the bit they did on driving with no insurance. Anyone catch which car they used on the graphic to illustrate drivers with no insurance....You've guessed it!!!

Chris

MattN

I agree, all wrong.

How can they be illegal? I like the way all UK cars have never been crashed, clocked or stolen and sold on.

Oh hang on, just beofr they were saying how half of the UK cars had been clocked!!

To register an import you need to insure it first, therefore reducing the number of people without insurance, which reduces that 'pool of cash' and that will reduce our premiums!

As for that guy who couldn't drive his Pajero/Shogun...... Was it just because it was a grey or because of other reasons? I like the way they never said, apart from the fact it was a grey and therfore a deathtrap!!

Quentin Wilson. Clocks cars then moans about it. Cretin!

I feel better now.

MattN

wrx.co.uk

As my Username implies, I can't be unbiased on this one.

However the BBC produced one of the worst and biased programmes I have ever seen. Reporting only one side of the argument is bad enough, but to introduce 'experts' who clearly do not have a clue what they are talking about is a disgrace.

Before buying my 1st import, I found this un-biased information from offical Japanese statistics:-

1. Car theft is virtually unheard of in Japan, in actual fact 19 times less than in the UK. This also means far less written off cars on the roads.

2. The average mileage of a car in Japan is about 1/2 of UK cars, this leaves much less room for clocking. There is virtualy no clocking of cars in Japan unlike the UK as the program showed.

3. The Shaken (MOT) is one the most extensive in the world, and very few 'written off' cars are allowed back on to the roads.

This is why I prefer Jap imports over UK cars. (Not forgetting the better spec)

The biggest problem facing owners of imported cars is not the Japanease, it is rouge importers. When buying any car you must take precautions. So why did they not explain how to buy an import properly, why not get it inspected by an expert, etc.

See you at the bc site tomorow

(please excuse bad spelling / typing)

D Noble

Obviously the major manufacturers have bribed that nice mr blair into having a word with the beeb,as it contradicts everything that has been said on topgear already,that guy just garaged his car for two years because someone TOLD him it would be dangerous,someone had better not tell him hell get wet if he goes out in the rain!!!

REGARDS
Dave

PS one reason that washing powder is cheaper in france is that the french like VFM,so P&G and lever top up the boxes with flakes that dont do anything(i could go into detail but i wont)therefor its cheaper

Stuart H

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ian/555:
<B>Have your say tomorrow night @ 19:30 by going to

LitchfieldImports

Stuart, I've got more than one of these illegal cars I'm done for

Iain

Chris L

If as Stuart says, you have more chance of hell freezing over than getting your question answered. Why not gather up all the responses on this thread and send it to a national news paper. I'm sure there are one or two who would like to do a nice article on the (in)accuracies of BBC reporting...

Chris

pslewis

Is it true that grey imports from Japan also dont have any underseal?? and will rust within a year in this country?? as my scooby is made from Bacofoil then there is not much to rust!!! surface rust becomes a perforration !!

Pete

kurtw

I think a lot they had to say against imports was baloney! Clearly led by the UK dealers worried that they will have to give up some margin.

Also, anyone else notice how they used a picture of a white impreza on the top of the "cars without insurance" graph!

What load of toe-rags.

MattN

Just thought if they are illegal, how come the likes of Ralliart are allowed to import them. I asked them about FTO's and they said they didn't do anywork on the brakes etc. So how can Mitsubishi's main agent for these types of cars sell an illegal deathtrap legally??

AAARRGGHHHHH my head hurts.

I'm going out in the scoob, need to put a smile back on my face.

MattN

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Neil,

as I said - I will post a transcript of the key bit - which to my ears sounds like the BBC imply the definition of grey import being one of illegality!!!!!

Of course, written down it may not look as serious, let's see!

R

ian/555

well I have mailed them this page and invited them to reply to us.

No doubt NO response will be heard!

robski

Must admit, I was not convinced by their article. I think they let themselves down with some of the language for starters.
I mean ANY car can be illegal, if its got something wrong with it!

I guess the scoobs a good point, we all know that they are arguably a higher spec in Japan, all the "risky" areas are the same, braking etc, so no probs there.

I think the prog did give the wrong impression, because they picked on a model that doesnt meet our standards. This isnt difficult, lets face it, a seat belt not working would do this as well.

I dont think people can argue against the stolen car bit, it does happen, steal in one coutry and ship to another, much less chance of getting caught. And with the increase in greys coming in, you have to expect it to happen. I guess thats where you cover yourself if you buy from a specialist importer, not a "dodgy" backstreet importer who isnt going to check any details.

As far as not knowing the cars history, it is a valid point, how many people have posted along the lines of "Im sure my import isnt standard, how can I found out whats been done to it..." normally high quality performance parts, but its always possible that parts not upto UK spec could be fitted. Tyres for instance?

The write offs thing is always possible as well. You can go and buy a write off in the UK, but have a lot of hastle getting it back on the road, plus a nasty Q plate. But if you just shipped it halfway across the globe, did it up, then registered it there?

My view is that the programme was trying to make the general public aware of some of the risks with a grey. Which they did allbeit poorly. Car enthusiasts such as on this site know that they need to know what they are doing when it comes to greys.

Something they did do right was to get the point across that greys are from for example Japan, not europe.

And, Im not trying to defend the programme, just trying to make sense of what they were trying to say.

robski

Diablo

Biggest bit of hypocracy was the bloke from Mistubishi UK!!!!!

Erm, excuse me, but is Ralliart not now importing second hand grey imports to sell on beside their used "uk" cars???????

Not to mention agreeing to service them too?

D

Had to laugh at the stupid plank who's been walking for two years cos his import is "dangerous".

barge

I thought it was crap like most of the stuff on BBC nowadays.

Still glad I have an dangerous and illegal car, cos its a dam site safer than some of the legal junk you can buy in this car hating country.

chiark

It was a crock of sh1te, but remember that we are the wise, the educated, the knowledgeable. In principle, it could have been a good thing... (Read the post before flaming, please )

We know the real "risks" (ha!) associated with grey imports (not parallel imports, as my first post was talking about) and we choose to buy em.

The imports that people on this board own are normally dealt with by experts who know their onions. The suppliers have scruples and aren't trying to hoodwink anyone.

However, the programme was well over the top and full of, as Stuart H put it so eloquently, bollards.

Some bloke paying 10,000 for a K reg people carrier needs his bits looking at.

Being told that cars are "illegal" is stretching the truth to breaking point...

I would suggest that we craft a carefully written response and send it as feedback from scoobynet, rather than a load of abuse. I expect that some of this programme was influenced by SMMT, and that another undertone was that if people didn't want to buy imported cars (note that the difference between grey and parallel imports was completely and utterly ignored) from anywhere abroad, that's fine by them.

It was crass journalism, sensationalist and intended to worry the public. Personally, I'd want them to explain that a) there's a difference between grey and parallel imports and b) a grey import is an excellent buy providing you know what you're getting in to and use a reputable dealer

I can tackle the parallel side of things.

Cheers,

Nick (importingimprezas list owner, so not exactly unbiased on this one)

Markus

I'm still laughing this morning.

As most have said. What a pile of poo.

My brother made a good comment 'sounds like Animal Farm, 'UK spec good, Grey import bad!"

There's the guy from mitisi saying 'oooh, they have different bits to our cars, thus they are not safe to drive on our roads!' OK, I'll let him off as I know that the tyres are graded for 112mph and in theory this should be ok because we'd never drive over 70 but apart from that they should be ok. Hell, My WRX Wagon don't have any airbags, so that's not a problem.

I can understand if someone is unknowningly sold a 'grey' (god I hate that term) this is out of order. But if you go for a grey and you know you're going for a grey then do some bloody research!
I'm not the most clever guy on the planet, but when I got the WRX I did actually do some research, mainly on this fine bbs, to find out what I was letting myself in for.

As to Mr Wilsons figure on the number of greys coming in. He could have broke it down into the number of greys illegally being imported and the number actually being purchased by people who want a grey. He should also have given a breakdown on the type of cars being iimported. As my brother said 'you'd probally find they are all scoobies, or at least jap spec tarmac terrorists' And I think he's right.

As for the European import thing, and the poor chap that got shafted. hmmm, would you guys trust a tiny 4 line text only add in, what looked like, your local paper? No, neither would I, unless I'd actually visited the importer in question to see thier offices, or at least met them face to face.

I know that I bought my WRX with no face to face contact, but the importers were recommened to me by one of their friends, and therefore I did trust them. Plus I have the power of the internet to slag them off if anything did go wrong, which it did not.

There have been some major players getting into the Euro import game, which is making it a bit safer, but as we all know, there are some smashing smaller guys out there who do a blinding job.

Programs like this just **** me off. I was hoping on hearing from an owner of a grey, well, one who was happy and could recommend a decent imported, but no, we have the same old 'grey imports are bad' story.

Rob B

Can't agree more with the comments above - the programme was typical sensationalist and irresponsible journalism. Where was the advice on what to look for to make sure you are not buying clocked cars - eg checking for service history and if it hasn't got one using that against the seller of the car as they can't guarantee the history of the car.

Although the idiot with the "dangerous" MPV made me laugh, my favourite bit was when the "expert" on grey imports instructed us not to buy cars with retractable wing mirrors - quite right - dangerous things they are in the wrong hands!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I deliberately taped the programme - for different reasons actually...

...but having done so I am going to get a transcript made up as I believe that the BBC actually overstepped the mark.

From my watching of the tape they more than imply that the definition of 'grey import' is that it is illegal.

I believe that there are grounds for formal complaint on the basis that the programme has potentially 'blighted' the value of our, legally imported' cars.

If anyone out there is good at this stuff, or is legally minded, or simply bloody minded and very angry then please sign up and we'll go after them!

Will post transcript later.

R

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Sadly, tho, I have to disagree with wrx.co.uk as there is a valid point about stolen cars.

A ring has been operating in Surrey that is stealing high value Japanese cars to order and bringing them to the UK - this inlcudes 22bs and Skylines.



As with all things caveat emptor still applies and there are as many dodgy dealers in greys as there are in older UK cars.



R

Neil F

I missed most of this programme and only saw a tiny bit at the end about uninsured drivers (including the graph topped by Imprezas!)
Whilst I get the gist of the programme from the posts, I was wondering, were Subarus/Imprezas mentioned specifically?
In what way were they saying that imports are illegal/dangerous?
Did they focus particularly on Japan or were other countries detailed (European?).
I'd love to contribute my view to the BBC Rannoch, but need to be better informed of the content.
Anyone in Hornchurch area got a tape of this they could lend me?

What is it with these programmes these days. We had to suffer that farcical Panorama extravaganza on speeding a little while ago, full of wildly out of context quotes and examples.
We are fortunate enough to recognise this rubbish for what it is as we have a vested interest in it, but how much other poo is sold to us in such programmes on subjects that we don't know about?

Neil. VERY-happy-import-owner-who-researched-the-subject-before-getting-one......