A couple of questions on buying a rally car for road use.
14 January 2007, 08:03 PM
#1
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A couple of questions on buying a rally car for road use.
In the past i have had a sensibly modified impreza as well as an Evo 6 and i now want something totally different, i have been looking at fully built Group N and Group A rally cars and thinking along the lines of buying one for road use.
I know one of these cars will use a lot of fuel and will be mapped for certain grade race fuel but i would have thought you can get it re-mapped to run on Optimax, these are the questions i have for anyone that is clued up in this field or anyone that has done similar.
1) What life span would a Group A rally engine have in comparison with a standard built factory engine, the parts used in a Group A engine are obviously lightened and modified so would it be possible to keep one of these engines running for a fair period of time with good servicing ?
2) How would an insurance company react if you went to them and explained what car you have and that you wanted to use a rally car for road use ?
3) The one i have been looking at has a full FIA Lamp pod assembly on the front, as far as i am aware it is illegal to use these on the road because they can be dangerous in an accident if you hit a person. How do the cars get around this between rally stages as i remember seeing them in the past on main roads with the full pod still on the bonnet. That was a few years ago though, recent regs may have changed that they switch bonnet after a stage so the light pod is not in use.
This is an example of what i have been looking at on the link at the bottom, it would be a second car for me to have fun with at the weekends as i will have a normal car for day to day use. Top speed won`t matter to me, its more the torque i am after for fun down country roads hence its why i am looking at a possible rally car which will save a lot on modding in the long run.
Digital image / photo of car
I know one of these cars will use a lot of fuel and will be mapped for certain grade race fuel but i would have thought you can get it re-mapped to run on Optimax, these are the questions i have for anyone that is clued up in this field or anyone that has done similar.
1) What life span would a Group A rally engine have in comparison with a standard built factory engine, the parts used in a Group A engine are obviously lightened and modified so would it be possible to keep one of these engines running for a fair period of time with good servicing ?
2) How would an insurance company react if you went to them and explained what car you have and that you wanted to use a rally car for road use ?
3) The one i have been looking at has a full FIA Lamp pod assembly on the front, as far as i am aware it is illegal to use these on the road because they can be dangerous in an accident if you hit a person. How do the cars get around this between rally stages as i remember seeing them in the past on main roads with the full pod still on the bonnet. That was a few years ago though, recent regs may have changed that they switch bonnet after a stage so the light pod is not in use.
This is an example of what i have been looking at on the link at the bottom, it would be a second car for me to have fun with at the weekends as i will have a normal car for day to day use. Top speed won`t matter to me, its more the torque i am after for fun down country roads hence its why i am looking at a possible rally car which will save a lot on modding in the long run.
Digital image / photo of car
14 January 2007, 09:30 PM
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Can't see why a lamp pod should be illegal on the road.
No worse than these 4x4 pillocks driving round with bull bars fitted to fight off wild animals on the way to drop the kidlets off at school. Or the old style jaguars with a pointy silver figure poised to disembowel pedestrians who have the nerve to fly over their upper class (they think) bonnet.
They wouldn't be allowed on a new car going through type approval or SVA (which is where the sticky out bits going into pedestrians is tested) but no rules about fitting them to a car after that. Nothing in the MOT that I'm aware of.
Can't comment on insurance but I guess they'll not welcome you with open arms (with an open cheque book maybe).
Not an engine expert either but I think the whole point of both gpN and gpA regs is that the engines are pretty much standard components but "blueprinted". Blueprinting won't reduce lifetime of any of the components. Prolonged running at high revs, high boost and the need to maintain the last 0.5% of peak performance are what prompts regular rebuilds on rally cars. Get it remapped for road use, less wild boost and V-power type fuel and it should be similar to a tuned road engine, which it is. Not sure if you'd want a milder set of cams to keep it driveable, I'm not up to speed with what th erally boys are using nowadays.
I used to drive round in an RS2000 with gp4 tarmac spec suspension and a tuned 2.1 pinto on 45's in the 1980's, looked boggo standard RS2000 but went and handled like a rocket (well a 1980's rocket at least). Similar I guess.
No worse than these 4x4 pillocks driving round with bull bars fitted to fight off wild animals on the way to drop the kidlets off at school. Or the old style jaguars with a pointy silver figure poised to disembowel pedestrians who have the nerve to fly over their upper class (they think) bonnet.
They wouldn't be allowed on a new car going through type approval or SVA (which is where the sticky out bits going into pedestrians is tested) but no rules about fitting them to a car after that. Nothing in the MOT that I'm aware of.
Can't comment on insurance but I guess they'll not welcome you with open arms (with an open cheque book maybe).
Not an engine expert either but I think the whole point of both gpN and gpA regs is that the engines are pretty much standard components but "blueprinted". Blueprinting won't reduce lifetime of any of the components. Prolonged running at high revs, high boost and the need to maintain the last 0.5% of peak performance are what prompts regular rebuilds on rally cars. Get it remapped for road use, less wild boost and V-power type fuel and it should be similar to a tuned road engine, which it is. Not sure if you'd want a milder set of cams to keep it driveable, I'm not up to speed with what th erally boys are using nowadays.
I used to drive round in an RS2000 with gp4 tarmac spec suspension and a tuned 2.1 pinto on 45's in the 1980's, looked boggo standard RS2000 but went and handled like a rocket (well a 1980's rocket at least). Similar I guess.
15 January 2007, 07:18 AM
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If it has number plates..........
It must be road legal??????????
That was what I thought anyway. Dont light pods clip/screw on, so could take off ?
It must be road legal??????????
That was what I thought anyway. Dont light pods clip/screw on, so could take off ?
15 January 2007, 08:10 AM
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Can't see why a lamp pod should be illegal on the road.
No worse than these 4x4 pillocks driving round with bull bars fitted to fight off wild animals on the way to drop the kidlets off at school. Or the old style jaguars with a pointy silver figure poised to disembowel pedestrians who have the nerve to fly over their upper class (they think) bonnet.
They wouldn't be allowed on a new car going through type approval or SVA (which is where the sticky out bits going into pedestrians is tested) but no rules about fitting them to a car after that. Nothing in the MOT that I'm aware of.
Can't comment on insurance but I guess they'll not welcome you with open arms (with an open cheque book maybe).
Not an engine expert either but I think the whole point of both gpN and gpA regs is that the engines are pretty much standard components but "blueprinted". Blueprinting won't reduce lifetime of any of the components. Prolonged running at high revs, high boost and the need to maintain the last 0.5% of peak performance are what prompts regular rebuilds on rally cars. Get it remapped for road use, less wild boost and V-power type fuel and it should be similar to a tuned road engine, which it is. Not sure if you'd want a milder set of cams to keep it driveable, I'm not up to speed with what th erally boys are using nowadays.
I used to drive round in an RS2000 with gp4 tarmac spec suspension and a tuned 2.1 pinto on 45's in the 1980's, looked boggo standard RS2000 but went and handled like a rocket (well a 1980's rocket at least). Similar I guess.
No worse than these 4x4 pillocks driving round with bull bars fitted to fight off wild animals on the way to drop the kidlets off at school. Or the old style jaguars with a pointy silver figure poised to disembowel pedestrians who have the nerve to fly over their upper class (they think) bonnet.
They wouldn't be allowed on a new car going through type approval or SVA (which is where the sticky out bits going into pedestrians is tested) but no rules about fitting them to a car after that. Nothing in the MOT that I'm aware of.
Can't comment on insurance but I guess they'll not welcome you with open arms (with an open cheque book maybe).
Not an engine expert either but I think the whole point of both gpN and gpA regs is that the engines are pretty much standard components but "blueprinted". Blueprinting won't reduce lifetime of any of the components. Prolonged running at high revs, high boost and the need to maintain the last 0.5% of peak performance are what prompts regular rebuilds on rally cars. Get it remapped for road use, less wild boost and V-power type fuel and it should be similar to a tuned road engine, which it is. Not sure if you'd want a milder set of cams to keep it driveable, I'm not up to speed with what th erally boys are using nowadays.
I used to drive round in an RS2000 with gp4 tarmac spec suspension and a tuned 2.1 pinto on 45's in the 1980's, looked boggo standard RS2000 but went and handled like a rocket (well a 1980's rocket at least). Similar I guess.
15 January 2007, 09:39 AM
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Do you really intend spending £23K on a classic subaru?
Surely you'd be better off buying something like this and saving a fortune?
Seems madness paying all that money for a rally car if you're not going to use it for rallying
All IMHO of course
Surely you'd be better off buying something like this and saving a fortune?
Seems madness paying all that money for a rally car if you're not going to use it for rallying
All IMHO of course
15 January 2007, 10:12 AM
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Just to give you a bit of history - I've been rallying for over 20 years and currently have a Prodrive built Group N Impreza rallycar. In the past I've had a huge assortment of rally cars including Group A Escort Cosworths. My current road car is a Skoda Octavis Vrs and it replaced an 06 plate Impreza Sti just before Christmas (fuel costs got out daft).
A proper rally car makes a horrible road car. My current Subaru rally car does around 1 mile per litre on race fuel when used hard. The fuel costs £2.50 per litre. The engine is rebuilt every 1000 miles. The gearbox and front diff every 400 miles. The suspension is way too hard for road use, the gear ratios are all wrong and the top speed way too low. It's so noisy inside that we use headsets even on road sections. In addition all turbocharged rally cars have a restrictor fitted to the turbo inlet that makes them slower than a well modified road car. You could remove it but then you would need a ful remap and a whole host of other engine mods to make it work properly.
It's your descision obviously but I hate driving rally cars on the road, they are expensive, noisy and fun for about 5 minutes.
A proper rally car makes a horrible road car. My current Subaru rally car does around 1 mile per litre on race fuel when used hard. The fuel costs £2.50 per litre. The engine is rebuilt every 1000 miles. The gearbox and front diff every 400 miles. The suspension is way too hard for road use, the gear ratios are all wrong and the top speed way too low. It's so noisy inside that we use headsets even on road sections. In addition all turbocharged rally cars have a restrictor fitted to the turbo inlet that makes them slower than a well modified road car. You could remove it but then you would need a ful remap and a whole host of other engine mods to make it work properly.
It's your descision obviously but I hate driving rally cars on the road, they are expensive, noisy and fun for about 5 minutes.
15 January 2007, 04:06 PM
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No Chris, not that particular one in the link anyway as that was just an example to show and to get an opinion on how long an engine like that would last.
I won`t mind all the road noise with having no carpets as it will be a second car that will just come out from time to time for some fun on quiet country roads,to be honest thats all part of the feel of a raw rally car and thats what i am after as i want something totally different from the crowd if you know what i mean.
The specced up rally car, roll cage hard feel appeals to me as i may also use it for track days as well and seeing as rallying is one of the main sports i really like then what better feel to have when your out and about having some fun. Ive used a dog box before and i know how whiney they are along with the noise that comes off the car with no insulation etc.
Before i look i am going to get some rough insurance quotes first to see if its worthwhile as like i said it won`t be a day to day car. Thanks for the input from those that have posted as its helped especially Badgersport with his vast experience of rally cars.
I won`t mind all the road noise with having no carpets as it will be a second car that will just come out from time to time for some fun on quiet country roads,to be honest thats all part of the feel of a raw rally car and thats what i am after as i want something totally different from the crowd if you know what i mean.
The specced up rally car, roll cage hard feel appeals to me as i may also use it for track days as well and seeing as rallying is one of the main sports i really like then what better feel to have when your out and about having some fun. Ive used a dog box before and i know how whiney they are along with the noise that comes off the car with no insulation etc.
Before i look i am going to get some rough insurance quotes first to see if its worthwhile as like i said it won`t be a day to day car. Thanks for the input from those that have posted as its helped especially Badgersport with his vast experience of rally cars.
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15 January 2007, 04:16 PM
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As far as I know the ECU s on Rally cars are set up for power either on or off as generally a rally driver prefers the power in this way.
On for accelerating or balancing car on corner. or off when braking.
Not made for driving smoothly.
Let us know how ya get on,I see some lovely cars advertised in Motoring News each week,could be a good place to look.
On for accelerating or balancing car on corner. or off when braking.
Not made for driving smoothly.
Let us know how ya get on,I see some lovely cars advertised in Motoring News each week,could be a good place to look.
15 January 2007, 10:01 PM
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I have a full spec Group N Impreza and to be honest I feel buggered after driving it on the road after half an hour, the novelty soon wears off when your not in competition mode.. even the gravel suspension is too hard for daily road use and the dog box whine gets on your nerves after a while... although the anti lag can be fun for scaring people.
I only use it on the road for 'shakedown' after doing work on the car and half an hours driving is plenty... I have an evo 8 as a road car and it seems very sublime after climbing out of the rally car..
However I would sell it to you if you really want a proper rally car... as driven by Colin Mcrae!! complete with pods, bag tank, extinguishers and carbon seats... oh and its left hand drive which is the real pain in the ***!
Each to their own though I say
Good Luck
Rob
I only use it on the road for 'shakedown' after doing work on the car and half an hours driving is plenty... I have an evo 8 as a road car and it seems very sublime after climbing out of the rally car..
However I would sell it to you if you really want a proper rally car... as driven by Colin Mcrae!! complete with pods, bag tank, extinguishers and carbon seats... oh and its left hand drive which is the real pain in the ***!
Each to their own though I say
Good Luck
Rob
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