DR Motorsport

GOOD POINTS

Well done to Richard and Robert on the World Championship, probably deserved it more for last years efforts, but that's rallying.

Well done to Subaru, for getting a new car to the title in it's first year. I was getting sick of the standard Ford excuse of the cars still being new. (1999 AND 2000)

Network Q for getting us the free passes. Half the time they weren't checked, and if I lived local, I wouldn't buy them.

The police !!!!! Not a speed check seen by us all weekend. Also thanks to them for the police escort passing all the queue's to get us into service on Saturday afternoon, after the stages were cancelled following Sainz' accident.

BAD POINTS

Sainz and the accident. It's never nice to hear people getting injured watching something they enjoy, and Carlos was clearly very upset. A sensible move by Ford to withdraw. I was trying to remember, but I think Malcolm Wilson was driving in Portugal in 1986 when a fatal accident forced the teams to withdraw. So he has unfortunately been there before. Thankfully this wasn't as bad.

The marshals, some good, but the majority didn't bother where people stood. They seemed more interested in watching from a dangerous spot, and chatting amongst themselves.

Rally Radio, good when you could pick it up, but most of the time you couldn't.

TV coverage. No Eurosport in the Hotel, and the Friday BBC coverage was halfway through the night, when we were up at 5.30 again.

And finally the Route. Far too concentrated in South Wales, hence everyone who wished to see the stages were all in the same area. If the stages were more spread out, so would be the spectators and the traffic jams.

SADDEST MOMENT

Seeing someone from Scoobynet driving about with the headsets on, obviously thinking he was taking part in the rally !!!!!!!

MichelleWRX1994

I hope none of the spectators injured take action or anything after all if you are stupid enough to stand where a car could come off then..............you are stupid!!!!

At the Woodpecker rally last year I tried to get some piccies of cars sliding round one corner...........I was told off for being htere and asked to move to a safer spot..........lucky I did as one car had a bit of an off where I would have been standing

Still I hope they are okay and I feel really sorry for Sainz (and only a little bit for Ford )

scud8

iTrader: (1)

If it turns out that the people who were injured were told to move, then they only have themselves to blame. If they were told to move, then the police should prosecute the parents of the injured children for child endangerment.

LEE P

hi DR motorsport! we had a good rally, there was alot of idiots about who wouldnt listen to the marshals and there was alot of marshals about who just watched at the best bits istead of crowd control. we did three the first day, would of been two if trawscoed adnt been cancelled and two the third. saw one or two muppets around! but who was the muppet in the headsets!! i would of laughed my c'ck off if id of seen that!
Lee

DR Motorsport

It's difficult to comment on the accident without knowing all the facts. We were in the middle of stage 11, on a long uphill straight, Sainz went past us okay, but as far as I'm aware the accident was 1/2 a mile later.
Lee we managed 3,2 and 2 forest stages each day. Not bad considering the traffic.
The headset owner was the SIDC Chairman, we saw him turning around in the queue for servicing on Saturday afternoon when the traffic wasn't going anywhere. If I'd seen him earlier, he could have tagged onto our police escort, and got straight in.
But we all laughed too.

CharlieWhiskey

Some very bad marshalling but a lot of pretty good ones too!

IFAIK the injured WERE marshalls and there family as Sainz hit a radio car!

Why was it parked there?
How far did Sainz go off?
How come all the 'checks' (including FIA) didn't spot the potential problem?

We will have to wait & see...

ChrisB

Too right! We struggled to get it on the M4 at times. Very patchy reception.

LEE P

Oh dear! LOL DR M. headsets and all! it wasnt even that cold to say they were keeping their ears warm!
Did see alot of people with there names in the side windows!
Yee Haa!
lee

JackClark

The car was pushed about 10 foot off the bend. Marshalls car was damaged on the side. Walked straight past as we thought it may have been worse, should've filmed it.

Pete Croney

Well spotted David but I think headsets is a little bit of an exageration, as its the earpieces I use to hear MTV on the tread mill at my gym

I was using my scanner, listening to Ford's radio channel. We had been at Brechfa, at the crossover and heard of the accident when Lois radio'd in to base, before he had even got out of the car. We also heard that the stage had been cancelled before the other 2,000 people we shared the car park with and we heard that the spectator car park at service was closed because the organisors didn't want millions of fans going there after 11 and 12 were cancelled.

You were probably listening to crackly version of Dancing Queen on Rally Radio at the time, oblivious to the accident, so I'm glad it gave you a laugh at such a sombre time of the rally.

Richard Askew

...unfortunately us marshals get the **** end of the stick time and time again - most speccies listen to what they are told but there are those that are adamant that because they have paid their money they can do what the **** they want to...and then the marshals cop the bollocking for not doing their jobs.
People dont always seem to realise that in order for them to enjoy their sport, there are those people who volunteer their own time/petrol/effort to let this happen... not once on this rally did a speccie or a competitor say thanx to any of the marshals in my group....
No-one realises, unless they marshal themselves, that we have to be on stage 4 or maybe 5 hours before first car, often signing on the night before and driving to our positions and standing there ******* freezing and usually pissed off, until the course closing car trundles passed.
To add insult to injury on this years event, the jobsworthy tossers in the MSA wouldn't allow alot of marshals in to the rallyshow for free... (I got in) and that sucks bigtime.
The sport is, IMHO, pandering to the corporate ****** and not the grass roots... in the not too distant future rallying will be like F1, full of jumped up tossers and brown-nosers...
Thank God for welsh road rallying....

Pete Croney

Hi Richard

I've had this conversation with a few marshalls and I think the problem is that there are too many people that consider marshalling as nothing more than free entry into the rally.

They have no real knowledge of the safety issues and no ability to assertively control a crowd.

You (an experienced professional marshal) are a dying breed and the sport is a non starter without you.

Take Carlos' incident... Not only did a marshal let people stand in a run off area, but he even parked his car there. He must have had no comprehension of where an off might happen. I bet the damage to his car, which I doubt his insurance will pay for, will be a long standing reminder that marshalling is a serious job, not a free entry ticket.

A minority of marshals are letting down the image of a very professional and dedicated bunch of people.

Dave T-S

Following on from Richard and Pete, and I nearly posted this earlier, before their comments.....there are two kinds of marshals - the professional, experienced ones - and those that just want a free entry ticket to stand where the punters can't.

Pete and I were stood at the crossover point in Brechta 2, which was closed off with about 20 of the large round straw bales. This was a 90 left at the end of a probable 100mph + straight.

I overheard a bunch of marshals walking back down the stage before the start, moaning that they couldn't park their 14 or so cars on the outside of the bend by the bales......

Disclaimer - NOT having a go at professional marshals - just the freebie Muppets.

Re Welsh road rallying - wasn't that the road bits between the stages

If the NWQ carries on in its current form, and it has no choice as FIA regs say no more than 10% of stages can be moved from year to year, and the ridiculous parking, then it is finished.

With the ISC coverage, and the Channel 4 TV deal, and Carlos Sainz's unfortunate accident, I believe the future of the punters wandering in the forest is finished. It will end up as a small number allowed behind high fenced compounded areas and that will be it.

Vate

My mate and I were first time visitors and had a few conversations with guys who were obviously old sages when it comes to Rallying and had been marshalls for years. Unfortunately not all were as professional. One ruddy gentleman on SS12 told the crowds (who were standing where they shouldn't be) to move back as the control car drove through as there had been a bad accident on SS11. He went on to say that everyone could move back as close as they liked once the control had passed. This guy obviously should not be a marshall. Fortunately accademic if this was dangerous or nor as we all know the stage was cancelled (massive bummer as we drove all over Breacon National Park to avoid the A465/M4 gridlock to get there in time) Ho hum, next year, always next year.

Richard Askew

...Pete - cheers for your comments, it was good to see ya again on shakedown.
There is a difference between those who marshal weekend in, weekend out on various events through the UK, and those who come out once a year for a free Rally GB. This is where the problem lies and its now up to the MSA to sort it. When you sign on as a marshal on the Isle of Man, you are automatically made a special constable of the Manx Constabulary and have powers of arrest for those who trangress on the closed stages. I'm not saying this would solve rally GB's probs but it is one way of improving safety. On Rhondda 1 on Sat a group of 8 enduro bikes turned up and despite being warned not to drive up the LIVE stage they did so, showering me in all manner of ****.... had I not been an official of the event and a member of the public instead, I would have ripped him off the back of his bike and beaten 7 shades of crap outta him - because I was a safety official I could not and so they were free to endanger the safety of marshals/speccies and crews.... its madness.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

We had a marshall standing next to us at Rheola 1 suffering from jetlag I think. As the cars came over the brow of a hill a little way up the stage the marshall further down blew his whistle which was almost immediately followed by the marshall round the next bend (and out of site) blowing his, only then did the marshall next to us blow his, when the cars were no more than 10 feet away from him! This happenend every time a car came past If the marshall round the next bend hadn't have been on the ball the speccies round the corner wouldn't have stood a chance as by the time 'our' marshall blew it would've been too late

On the other hand the sector official and marshalls at Rheola 2 where we stood were spot on, they wouldn't let anyone onto the stage if there was even a remote possibility that a car was imminent. They were friendly but assertive and very good at taking no stick from anyone

Marshalling must be a very hard job, not only do you need loads of common sense and experience of rallying but also oodles of confidence and assertiveness. Not to mention the ability to stand out in all weathers for hours on end. I have nothing but respect for the good and dedicated marshalls such as Rich, I wish there were more like him prepared to come and work the RAC to make it a safer rally for us all. If not I can forsee the end of spectating as we know it on these world events.

Sal

Scott.T

iTrader: (2)

BAD POINTS:
TRAFFIC - Aimed to get into Rhondda for 0800, didn't get in until 0915
RALLY RADIO - Poor reception....quote "We are getting reports that the A..........is closed and that Car Park.......is full, but car park D is 3/4's full'.
An hour later Car Park D was still 3/4's full, but when we got there about 10mins later it looked like it had been closed for hours.
SUPERSPECIAL - Not worth the money

GOOD POINTS :

LOADS OF SUBARU's - Think it must of been the invade Wales in your SUbaru week.
NOT MANY EVO's - Only Kidding
WE KNOW NOT TO GET A DAY PASS NEXT YEAR - But seperate Stage passes on different days, as the chances of seeing more than 1 stage are slim.

silver

Had a great day out once we got into the stage. (Rheola).
However what a crap method of entry, paper tickets to be removed individually for each person by the marshals.
Last year with the tag system was so much better. We queued for ages to be met by 3 marshals taking tickets which took an age for them to rip out.
Other than that had a fun day out, I stay dryer when I swim though!

DR Motorsport

Richard, I like the idea about the special constable status, but I also think it goes hand in hand with some proper MSA backed training for newbies.
They probably took in over £10 million in tickets sales, so it's time they reinvested. An accident like Sainz had will have been reported all over the world, for all the wrong reasons, but if this country doesn't do something positive, I fear we could loose the Rally GB all together (Portugal). There are lots of rallies trying to get into a limited number of spaces, and I feel that crowd problems here have increased over the years; and again it goes back to the problem of crowding everyone into a limited area.
I am also very aware of the importance of the job you do.
I've been involved in all types of rally activities over the last 20 years, from competing myself, spanner work, and even marshalling at a couple of single stage events and also 2 forest rallies. But I will hold my hand up and admit it wasn't for me, but I have tried it, and I take my hat off to all the marshals I know who do a very professional job and have done so for many years.

On a lighter note.
Pete, if you say they were earpieces, then they were earpieces. I have a similar set made by Peltor
It could have been worse, for the true rally look, the car could have been covered in stickers..................OOPS

[Edited by DR Motorsport - 11/29/2001 6:59:04 PM]

Dave T-S

David
I won't tell you what other kit we had in the car, but i've now christened Pete "Inspector Gadget"

Also no truth in the rumour Pete had the headphones on so he didn't have to listen to me in the car.......

Funny how we acquired fifty new friends on every stage with the scanner

DR Motorsport

Hi Dave,
The scanners are certainly worth the money, especially if you follow the WRC. As Pete said earlier he was listening to the Ford channel at the time of the accident, I think Alan (my mate on the maps) had picked up the Hyundai broadcast. Then realising the stage would be stopped, we made a sharp exit back to service.

David

ChrisB

A couple of bikes rode down one of the stages we were stood on (Resolfen IIRC) as well Rich - worthy of a good kicking IMO.



Again, on Resolfen. The Focus has just come down hill and hung a left. The folks at the top of the picture are right on the run off...

In contrast, on the corner we stood on SS2 on Friday morning, the marshalls were very good and wouldn't let you stand on the outside of the corner.

Neil Micklethwaite

Pete

Sorry did not get to chat at Mark's Farmstead - I was on the blower to the Daughter / Wife.

Hope the spare car was Ok .

Dave T-S were you with Pete @ Mark's farm ?

Crapaud62

Very interesting thread.

I marshall/timekeep at the Jersey Rally every year. This is a fantastic event with over a hundred miles of closed public road stages.

As above we have our honorary police with us which are like special constables but with MORE power. The spectators get the choice to move or be arrested! This works!

As someone who is a very experienced marshall (I've helped at most other forms of motorsport over the years) it annoys me when people think that anyone who can walk, talk and wear a bright yellow jacket can be a marshall.

Almost every single driver/navigator made a point of thanking us for helping them to enjoy their event. Little things like that make all the difference when you've been stood in pouring rain for several hours.

It would be nice to see more scoobies over for next year's Jersey Rally in October.

Dave T-S

Neil
Yes, and I wanted to say hello, but you were hiding in the pantry on the blower to the Daughter/Wife

Neil Micklethwaite

Dave / Pete.

My daughter ( 5 years old ) was telling me off for not phoning the day before 'cos we were drunk.

Sorry I missed ya both.

Dave T-S

No probs, might catch you at the next Gwynne day