polarbearit

Just some observations I've made lately as someone who uses a busy but usually fast moving motorway every day. Please tell me what you think!

- Even at rush hour a huge proportion of the traffic on the road IS HGV's. This slows the flow of traffic down and causes 'middle lane syndrome' from other traffic. I have long advocated that this is not the best way to move large loads long distances. I think the taxation system really should be changed to favour using Railways for freight. Generally the goods in HGV's could be carried 95% of its journey by train and at faster speeds than on the road. Traffic would flow much better without these HGV's on the road...

- There is a logic to saying that at 100 mph 2x as much traffic could get through the same bit of road as at 50 mph. This only falls down because car brakes and human reactions are not as good at 100mph as they are at 50... So the answer to this - how about improving the standard of MOT's so proper brake testing and further safety tests are done. Cars which can't meet these requirements (eg Classics with 4 drums!) would not be allowed on the motorway.

- Traffic Jams currently waste about 45 minutes of my day every day (ie ~180 hours per year). I could either do more work or spend more time with my family if I didn't have to wait in queues at this time. As someone who is payed an hourly rate it is easy for me to assess just how much traffic queues potentially cost me and it is several thousand pounds per year.

I know there are flaws in my arguments but public transport DOES not work for me - it turns a 1 hour commute into 20 mins on the bus, 45 mins at the station, 25 mins on the train, 15 mins waiting at the next station, and 20 mins on another bus (all times are 'best case' it can be MUCH worse), all of which costs me significantly more than doing the same journey in a car which only does 20 mpg and is group 20 insurance! So public transport is not an option for me...

So in summary
- Shift the HGV's traffic onto trains
- Improve the standard of cars on the road (brakes and generally safety)
- Ban less safe cars from motorways or scrap them altogether
- Increase the speed limits on british motorways and GET BRITAIN MOVING.
- Promote lane displine with driver training - make people who are caught practicing bad lane displine attend a training session.

Just my opinion though

Jon

DJFish

How about creating incentives for people to use the motorway system at night so we're not using a national resource too much for half the day and not enough the other half.
Variable speed limits or less tax on Derv after 23:00 might encourage freight users to stay off the road during peak hours.

Jerome

I remember reading somewhere that before the miners strike in 84(?), much more freight was moved by rail. Because the train drivers went on strike to support the miners, freight companies had to use HGV's to get their goods shifted. When all the strikes ended, the freight companies realised that, for them, it was better to check the goods on a lorry for the whole journey than a lorry at each end of the journey with the train in the middle. I doubt, without huge incentives from the government, that rail will be seen as attractive ever again. Then there's the appalling state of the railways at present and it seems to makes sense to transport things by lorry door to door.

Personally I would like to see much less lorry traffic during the rush hours. Unfortunately, the gorvernment can't just ban lorry's from certain times of the day. but they could offer - as mentioned before - huge tax incentives to use lorry out of the rush hour.

TonyG

Spotted a slight flaw in the logic here - 'There is a logic to saying that at 100 mph 2x as much traffic could get through the same bit of road as at 50 mph. '
This only works if the gap between cars is the same at 100 mph as at 50 mph. Not exactly safe as the faster you go the more distance (squared) you need slow down. That's the laws of physics which you can't get away from. Also, your reaction time will stay the same, but in that time you will travel twice as far at 100 mph as at 50 mph (the blindingly obvious bit).
So either at 50 mph the motorway is carrying much less traffic than its capacity would allow or at 100 mph there is an unsafe gap between cars.

chiark

I really worry about some turkey gunning it at 100mph in conjested traffic. At 100mph the gap that you need to leave will be larger than at 70/80mph. And will people leave the appropriate gap?

Erm.

Mike Burton

The problem with pushing more traffic onto the railways is that they are also *full*. Yes traffic jams on the railways.

The more logical form of transport would be river and canel. With a bit of planning, 80-90% of HGV traffic could be moved by boat.

As an example, my friend used to deliver the rolls of paper to the Yorkshire Evening Press in York via Barge. To save costs, this is now done by HGV. It takes 18 lorries to deliver the same amount as one trip with the barge did.

At the end of the day, no government wants to shift traffic off the road, because it will cost them too much in tax revenue.

--
Mike

chiark

Agree that it would be good to get freight off the roads though...

...shame our country's rail network has been comprehensively shafted over the past 50 years.

2WD James

Well i think they should introduce a ban on HGV's in rush hour traffic, they would not be allowed on the road from 7.30 to 10. and 4 till 7 in the afternoon, this means between the 7 and 4 they can get there 7 hours driving done and we have less traffic at rush hour.

2WD James

Well i think they should introduce a ban on HGV's in rush hour traffic, they would not be allowed on the road from 7.30 to 10. and 4 till 7 in the afternoon, this means between the 7 and 4 they can get there 7 hours driving done and we have less traffic at rush hour.

father_jack

Don't think trucks matter too much.
We need to addopt some things from the States.
E.g. allow undertaking on the motorway and allow a left turn on a red light in town.
Everyone needs to have cruise control too.
I've done about 10,000 miles over there and although there are more lanes, it's definately the cruise and undertaking that keeps it all flowing. You really do average whatever speed you set, far less stress than the 50-110mph rollercoaster ride you get here.

DazW

iTrader: (1)

What about a tax break incentive for people who work from 10 till 6 or 11 till 7 like i do

Dave P

Renationalise the railways. If you want railways to be used they have to be a cheaper alternative to driving and offer a regular enough service. They can only do this if they run at a loss. That said the management has to be very good to avoid wasting public money.

Secondly introduce tolls on motorways (with cheaper night rates) whilst at the same time reducing road tax. This will make the cost of road haulage more expensive and more competitive with the rail network.

Thirdly make monthly and annual rail and underground season tickets VAT free. Travelling to work by train is NOT a luxury!

Fourthly, reduce the size of rural buses at off peak to minibus style size. More maneouverable more fuel efficient and at least then only 8 or 9 seats will be empty instead of 40 odd.

Yes the rail network is overcrowded but this is mainly between 6 am and 10 pm. After these hours freight almost has exclusive use.

Beemer_Deano

Some interesting points here so I thought I'd add a couple of my own. I've always wondered why HGV traffic can't move overnight. Surely the lowered costs of them not standing around in traffic would go some way to subsidise the increased wages? And so many companies now work 24 hours that many of the big users (supermarkets etc) must be able to accept deliveries "out of hours".

Another one is that maybe the road freight companies could get together somehow. There must be thousands of lorries trawling from one end of the country to the other empty after dropping off loads, travelling next to full lorries making the same journey (and which will have to return empty). Although then you start to see why a decent WORKING railway network is such a good idea.

Father_Jack, I agree with you about US roads. I've also done a lot of miles in the US and find the freeways a much more relaxing experience (although driving in cities is a totally different story!), mainly because of undertaking. Anyone who wants to make progress doesn't have to worry about people camping in the wrong lane, and the ones who want to do the limit don't have to worry (too much ) about getting out of the way. Maybe the fact that anyone you cut up might have a gun also helps . Unfortunately it'd be chaos if it was brought in here - we can't handle lane discipline as it is, so we know what'll happen if the motorway lemmings have to worry about cars coming from all directions.

Cheers,

Deano

MorayMackenzie

RE: *- There is a logic to saying that at 100 mph 2x as much traffic could get through the same bit of road as at 50 mph. This only falls down because car brakes and human reactions are not as good at 100mph as they are at 50... So the answer to this - how about improving the standard of MOT's so proper brake testing and further safety tests are done. Cars which can't meet these requirements (eg Classics with 4 drums!) would not be allowed on the motorway."

Ok, so what about the machine behind the wheel of these 100mph cars? Many drivers in the UK are pushing the bounds of their ability to drive safely when they exceed 50mph. I would hate to see the carnage that would ensue if these drivers were suddenly allowed to drive at 100mph on the motorways. IMHO I don't think you could the general driving population in the UK could cope with 100mph motorway driving.

Also, fuel economy at 100mph is significantly less than that obtained at a lower cruise speed, such as 80mph... I suspect the government could and would use this as a reason not to allow any great increase in legal maximum speeds.

nom

"Personally I would like to see much less lorry traffic during the rush hours. Unfortunately, the gorvernment can't just ban lorry's from certain times of the day. but they could offer - as mentioned before - huge tax incentives to use lorry out of the rush hour."

Germany has some sort of system like this. I can't remember it exactly, but at times of the day vehicles over a certain size can't go on sections of the autobahn, nor can trailers/caravans. So it can be done.
I think that one of the main causes of conjestion on motorways are HGVs myself - just drive on the different motorways with different types of traffic on it to see. M1 is always hideous, even when there's little traffic, 'cos of the HGVs in this case combined with hills. This isn't true of the M25, though - I think that's mainly because of the huge numbers of entrances/exits and the disruption these cause to the flow. That could be fixed pretty easily though with the French method of bringing the joining traffic onto the road but stopping it from joining for a distance with a solid line. It matches speed / organises itself before jioning so much less 'turbulence'.

fast bloke

get all the commuters to work from home. Leave the motorways free for trucks and the A and B roads free for enjoyment.

Also - shoot all caravan owners on sight

JayDee

You gotta look at the big picture guys

We depend for our individual prosperity on the economic well being of this country and its ability to compete in world markets.

So although we all get cheesed off at following convoys of lorries, we gotta realise that this is the cheapest, most economically effective way of moving goods around.

Trains are not, due to the excessive handling necessary if goods are not delivered point to point, as they can never be for most goods going by rail.

JD

Veracocha

Interesting suggestions here. The barge one would certainly have its drawbacks. I.e. no river within miles of the intended destination, so trucks would need to be moved anyway.

One thing that may work would be charging tolls to HGV's that want to drive on the motorways during peak hours, but at other times letting them go for free. This would not force them to leave the motor way during rush hour but would offer an incentive that most would probably take up.

Either way travelling is sh1te unless at night time!

Piers Evershed

See

http://www.abd.org.uk/

for ideas on improving the traffic situation.


P

scooby555

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Why should we work at night ?????

From one of many Lorry drivers......
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ski

Don't forget about waterborne transport,works for european countries.Plenty of canals/rivers are under used or being converted for poncy uses.

ski

Don't forget about waterborne transport,works for european countries.Plenty of canals/rivers are under used or being converted for poncy uses.