healeyb

I know there has been some discussion about this in the past but...

I've had the no. 4 big end bearing fail on my STi5 as seems to be fairly common (37k miles BTW). WH who are now owned by Ford refused to pay, as they nearly always do, because one of the services had gone a few weeks over the time limit, not the mileage limit. The cost of the engine rebuild was £4,600.

The way I see it is that this failure to fully meet the terms and conditions of the contract would not have contributed entirely to the engine failure, as is clearly their stance. I can accept that it may have contributed partially (in reality of course it would have made jack sh*t difference).

Now I'm no lawyer but I'm under the impression that you can write any terms you like into a contract but at the end of the day the law expects contracts to be fair.

I intened to pursue a claim in the small claims court against WH to the effect that they should pay for most of the cost. I will of course give them an opportunity to settle out of court first, although they have so far failed to describe their reasons for witholding payment in writing.

I've read about a few experiences people have had with WH, such as getting the premium refunded (not fit for purpose) or getting them to pay after months of solicitors' letters (CraigH), but this isn't how I want to play it.

What I want to know is whether anyone has ever actually taken this bunch of cowboys to court and won. Getting details of the case would be an invaluable help not only to me but to anyone else in a similar situation. You can imagine that if you've got a very similar set of circumstances to a case they have lost it could bring a lot of pressure on them to settle out of court.

Failing that if anyone knows of any broadly similar court cases, car warranty or not, where terms of the contract weren't met fully but the judgement was that this didn't entirely get them out of an obligation to pay; this would be helpful.

It may be that I come to the conclusion that I don't have a chance, but at least I will have good reason to bite the bullet, and learned an important lesson.

Next car will be a euro import UK spec STi. 37k miles and I've had both the gearbox and engine rebuilt and a new ABS chip - >£6,500.

Thanks,
healeyb

kryten

Sorry to be negative, but if you breached the service intervals, then I doubt you'll get anywhere.

At the end of the day, you agreed to the contract and this stated the mileage and time limits for the warranty to be valid.

Missing the service, while seeming minor (and they probably wouldn't have paid out anyway, but that's a different issue!), has given them a perfectly legitimate get out.

You breached the contract and they are therefore entitled not to honor their part of it.

The only chance you may have is if their service intervals are more often than Subaru recommend and you have stuck to the Subaru ones. Seem to remember a policy I had some time ago on a Mondeo asked for 6k/6 months when the Ford service intervals were 10k/1 year.

At the end of the day, when nearly 5k is involved, its worth a try!! Good luck m8.

healeyb

It's certainly the common perception that if you don't stick to the terms and conditions of a contract then you're out of luck, but a glimmer of hope is that it's not quite as black and white as that. I take your point on the service intervals, I'll look into it.

Pete Croney

I now refuse to take in a repair that this company may or may not pay for.

Over the years we have had numerous dealings with them and they have refused every claim. On top of that, they require the failed part to be completely stripped down. Partially stripped or not stripped at all and the claim is instantly rejected with no appeal. When its a part that is totally shot to bits and obviously unrepairable, this just adds a large chunk to the rejected claim.

Some common reasons for rejection...

"Part not fully stripped" (air con pump - must be done by specialist at near the cost of a re-con pump)

"The failure was not sudden" (worn gears - very noisy box)

"The policy holder has continued to drive the car after reporting the fault" (lost 5th gear synchro)

"Wear and tear" (rear diff failure at 30k)

"Manufacturing defect" (5th gear synchro)

"Engine driven with no oil" (number 3 big end)

When I had a big row with WH over one claim I explained that I was influential amongst Subaru owners and would advise them not to buy WH policies. They said "Nothing would suit us better. We are fed up with getting claims on Subarus" (exact words used)

As I have said before, buy the Racing Post, pick a 50-1 outsider and put your £500 on that instead.

Before anyone worries that this post is libelous, I have personally experienced all of the above and am stating fact.

As for service schedule timing, Subaru UK consider one month or 1000 miles to be a reasonable allowance, although they do not apply this religously.

It is surely time this company's claims rejection record was fully exposed.

healeyb

Thanks for the feedback Pete, I certainly think that something needs to be done. My car has been repaired at a Garage in Alton Hants and I've been pleased with the job they've done and their attitude. They have taken a considerable loss where WH have failed to pay out and the owners have been unable to pay the bill.

I'm not angry about this but I am determined to slowly but surely set the record straight. How best to do this? If enough people come forward a class action suit could be brought against them, although I'm the first to admit that I know nothing about the practicalities of this, whether it really is possible in this country etc... The fear with litigation is always that the costs are going to spiral out of control, but then you've always got no win no fee (but then if you do win presumably half the cost of my engine rebuild goes into the Lawyer's pocket!).

Could try and get a consumer/motoring magazine to look into it perhaps, this could cause an image problem for Ford.

From Pete's extensive list it's apparent that there are people who ought to be in a stronger situation than I am as they didn't overrun the 6 month service. Some of the excuses they're coming out with are ridiculous, and the sad thing is that they seem to be getting away with it.

I wonder if it will be possible to find out how often they do pay out? I'll see if I can find out anything next week.

kryten

They failed to pay out on the suspension for my Mondeo as it was not a 'sudden failure'. IE I realised the ride had gone to pot and got it checked. Their explanation being that if I'd continued to drive it and it had 'broken' totally, I would have been able to claim!

Also, no win no fee is all very well, but you may find you have to shell out for an insurance policy to cover the WH costs if you loose and they are awareded against you. This can be significant (1k+) and may even be deducted from any settlement you win!

SimonH

I have absolutely no experience of this company but rather than going straight for your own lawyers why not try the Consumer Association (Which? Magazine) first of all? Or even something like Watchdog - if there's enough people losing out and a big name involved (Ford) they tend to love it.

Jenz

Are Subaru aware of the faults with your car. Subaru are always advertising reliability and being 'tough cars' can you get them involved to twist WHs arm? The last time I had any problems whatsoever (other than wear and tear) with a car was with a Morris Marina (what!) that I bought for £200 and had 114k on the clock, Jen.

47 NAT

Some Warranty companies give you a bit of grace on the servicing side. Even if the Manufacturers recommended intervals are say every 10k miles, the warranty will state 6k miles. I know that most warranty companies either give 500 miles or 28 days either side of servicing. Although soon as the realised what costs where incurred in this particular rebuild, they just decided "No" as they'd go over their monthly target.

I've dealt with them for a while (via Car Dealerships) and found them to be a bit scatty, but in saying that I dumped them this year for the RAC.

Either way good luck as they always seem to have both bites of the cherry......

Nath

ian/555

Try contacting the Office of Fair trading with regards to unfair terms in contract act 1989 IIRC. consumer helpline (0345 224499)

website http://www.oft.gov.uk/html/about/uctu.htm

If the warranty is in fact an insurance scheme you can try contacting the insurance ombudsman

http://www.theiob.org.uk/

who would hopefully help you out.

For info about small claims court goto this very useful site

http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/smc.html

I am sure that if the claim is for less than £5000 if will cost you no more than about £190 and if you lose the case all you lose is your £190 you are not liable for the other sides costs. Also another good free legal advice site is

http://www.freelawyer.co.uk

hope this helps and good luck ian

[Edited by ian/555 - 11/18/2001 11:41:09 AM]