Improving your driving skills
03 August 2006, 01:48 PM
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Improving your driving skills
How have you improved your driving skills? Have you paid to go through high performance driving courses? Has it been a case of try it for yourself and see the consequences? I ask because I feel like I cannot push my car to anywhere near it's limits as I wouldn't know how to correct it if I did go beyond the limit. Any advice?
03 August 2006, 01:56 PM
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Don Palmer
www.donpalmer.co.uk
The guy is
and is simply the guru!. . .Yes . .Driving skills have improved, but there is also room for improvement and it is important to recognise that!
Before I went through the above, I had difficulty "controlling my internal state", as the Subaru was taking over, and I felt like hammering it everywhere . . What the guy did was basically move the goal posts, where the emphasis was on good driving, improved driver intelligence et.c . . Don Palmer - you are a guru! Dudting off convoys of 15 cars becomes very methodical, and a piece of p*ss!
Now creative car controll - he was also very good! Can't reccomend Don Palmer highly enough!
The guy is
and is simply the guru!. . .Yes . .Driving skills have improved, but there is also room for improvement and it is important to recognise that!Before I went through the above, I had difficulty "controlling my internal state", as the Subaru was taking over, and I felt like hammering it everywhere . . What the guy did was basically move the goal posts, where the emphasis was on good driving, improved driver intelligence et.c . . Don Palmer - you are a guru! Dudting off convoys of 15 cars becomes very methodical, and a piece of p*ss!
Now creative car controll - he was also very good! Can't reccomend Don Palmer highly enough!
03 August 2006, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Neanderthal
Never had to take any courses to improve, I'm blessed with an immense amount of natural talent! 
03 August 2006, 02:36 PM
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I've tried go karting and that is completely different. I can go as quick as the go kart will allow me and not fear!
I'm glad some of us have natural talent and can deal with all situations!
I'm glad some of us have natural talent and can deal with all situations!
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03 August 2006, 03:01 PM
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I feel the same as you. I think a couple of track days will help, but i'm gonna lOOk for advanced/high performance driving tuition/courses.
There's also this, what was passed to me:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0...UTF8&s=gateway
There's also this, what was passed to me:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0...UTF8&s=gateway
03 August 2006, 03:16 PM
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03 August 2006, 03:19 PM
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By far the best way has to be decent driver coaching I doubt anything else woud make as much difference. Then it would depend what aspect of your skills you were looking to improve, all or some in particular.
Personally I would be getting on the phone to Rob Wilson or someone else of that ilk.
Regards,
Robin
Personally I would be getting on the phone to Rob Wilson or someone else of that ilk.
Regards,
Robin
03 August 2006, 03:28 PM
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Honestly though, before paying mega bucks to go on a training course, book yourself on a track day, I'd recommend Bedford Autodrome (unless you're car is uber loud cause they won't let you on). Bedford has massive run off areas so you're free to explore the limts of the car (and yourself) in as safe an environment as you could possibly get.
I was on the infamous SIDC Bedford Autodrome day from years back when half the people got banned from going on track cause their cars were too loud. Came away from the day with a new found respect for the Impreza, knowing that unless I was going to be driving like a tw@t there was no way I could get anywhere near the limits of the car on the public highway.
I was on the infamous SIDC Bedford Autodrome day from years back when half the people got banned from going on track cause their cars were too loud. Came away from the day with a new found respect for the Impreza, knowing that unless I was going to be driving like a tw@t there was no way I could get anywhere near the limits of the car on the public highway.
03 August 2006, 03:44 PM
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I spent a week at the Silverstone Racing School around 3 years ago.
6 hours a day for 5 days, racing around a track!
It starts off with a lecture/orientation, where you are taught the theory of car control and how to act once on track.
You then get put into a group of 8 people where you are then taken to a garage full of formula firsts!
A quick briefing on heal/toe braking/shifting and then you're out on track to practice.
4 instructors watch you from different areas and then give feedback during and after every session. (really helps)
You then try out an audi a4 on the skid pan, drive a time attack session in a caterham, practice drifting in a formula ford (fitted with cheapo tyres on the rear!) and actually take a racing license test (which you have to pass in order to race at the end.).
The important thing is the track time, theres loads of it.
Every afternoon we got to drive our formula fords preparing for the 'graduation' race (i paid extra and got 2 at the end).
Ended up with pole for both races, finished 2nd in the first (fluffed start) and 1st in the second.
Cost was around £3000 but it was by far, the best experience I have ever had.
I use 'heal and toe' all the time now and more importantly, I know my own limits!
6 hours a day for 5 days, racing around a track!
It starts off with a lecture/orientation, where you are taught the theory of car control and how to act once on track.
You then get put into a group of 8 people where you are then taken to a garage full of formula firsts!
A quick briefing on heal/toe braking/shifting and then you're out on track to practice.
4 instructors watch you from different areas and then give feedback during and after every session. (really helps)
You then try out an audi a4 on the skid pan, drive a time attack session in a caterham, practice drifting in a formula ford (fitted with cheapo tyres on the rear!) and actually take a racing license test (which you have to pass in order to race at the end.).
The important thing is the track time, theres loads of it.
Every afternoon we got to drive our formula fords preparing for the 'graduation' race (i paid extra and got 2 at the end).
Ended up with pole for both races, finished 2nd in the first (fluffed start) and 1st in the second.
Cost was around £3000 but it was by far, the best experience I have ever had.
I use 'heal and toe' all the time now and more importantly, I know my own limits!
03 August 2006, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Neanderthal
Honestly though, before paying mega bucks to go on a training course, book yourself on a track day, I'd recommend Bedford Autodrome (unless you're car is uber loud cause they won't let you on). Bedford has massive run off areas so you're free to explore the limts of the car (and yourself) in as safe an environment as you could possibly get.
I was on the infamous SIDC Bedford Autodrome day from years back when half the people got banned from going on track cause their cars were too loud. Came away from the day with a new found respect for the Impreza, knowing that unless I was going to be driving like a tw@t there was no way I could get anywhere near the limits of the car on the public highway.
I was on the infamous SIDC Bedford Autodrome day from years back when half the people got banned from going on track cause their cars were too loud. Came away from the day with a new found respect for the Impreza, knowing that unless I was going to be driving like a tw@t there was no way I could get anywhere near the limits of the car on the public highway.
We were passing Ferrari 355's, Porsches (too scared me thinks!) and all sorts in the corners due having an instructor next to us showing us the right line (which isn't the Formula one line!)
Track days are ok, but if have got bad habbits, they'll only get worse!
Get some proper tuition.
03 August 2006, 04:27 PM
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My Dad was a police advanced driver and Ive learned a thing or two off him. I feel I am a very safe driver in everyday situations now and when the oppatunity arises I can handle the car quite well at higher speeds.
03 August 2006, 05:12 PM
#16
Originally Posted by kingofturds
I have not, 4wd gives you a false sense of heightened driving ability, I tried to take a roundabout in a rwd omega in the wet the other day, at the same speed as the scoob and I was fishtailing al over the place
Thats because Scoobs are **** at handling....well MY03 STI is...
on the standard wheels i actaully span right around comming off a roundabout...not sure if it were crap tyres or the fact the the cars too light...
03 August 2006, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by chrispurvis100
I spent a week at the Silverstone Racing School around 3 years ago.
6 hours a day for 5 days, racing around a track!
It starts off with a lecture/orientation, where you are taught the theory of car control and how to act once on track.
You then get put into a group of 8 people where you are then taken to a garage full of formula firsts!
A quick briefing on heal/toe braking/shifting and then you're out on track to practice.
4 instructors watch you from different areas and then give feedback during and after every session. (really helps)
You then try out an audi a4 on the skid pan, drive a time attack session in a caterham, practice drifting in a formula ford (fitted with cheapo tyres on the rear!) and actually take a racing license test (which you have to pass in order to race at the end.).
The important thing is the track time, theres loads of it.
Every afternoon we got to drive our formula fords preparing for the 'graduation' race (i paid extra and got 2 at the end).
Ended up with pole for both races, finished 2nd in the first (fluffed start) and 1st in the second.
Cost was around £3000 but it was by far, the best experience I have ever had.
I use 'heal and toe' all the time now and more importantly, I know my own limits!
6 hours a day for 5 days, racing around a track!
It starts off with a lecture/orientation, where you are taught the theory of car control and how to act once on track.
You then get put into a group of 8 people where you are then taken to a garage full of formula firsts!
A quick briefing on heal/toe braking/shifting and then you're out on track to practice.
4 instructors watch you from different areas and then give feedback during and after every session. (really helps)
You then try out an audi a4 on the skid pan, drive a time attack session in a caterham, practice drifting in a formula ford (fitted with cheapo tyres on the rear!) and actually take a racing license test (which you have to pass in order to race at the end.).
The important thing is the track time, theres loads of it.
Every afternoon we got to drive our formula fords preparing for the 'graduation' race (i paid extra and got 2 at the end).
Ended up with pole for both races, finished 2nd in the first (fluffed start) and 1st in the second.
Cost was around £3000 but it was by far, the best experience I have ever had.
I use 'heal and toe' all the time now and more importantly, I know my own limits!
However £3000 is a lot of money and at Silverstone you don't know who you are going to get. In the (short) time I have been working as a drivers manager we have used various driver coaches/instructors and we ceratinly have not had anyone I would describe as bad - however one stands head and shoulders above the rest.
If you want to go racing this sort of course is the right way to go as you may as well take your ARDS test as part of it. I would suggest looking at the alternatives at other circuits. If I were looking to take my ARDS test and do this kind of course I think I would probably give Pat Blakeney at Thruxton a call. It will be cheaper than Silverstone and Pat is very experienced and a great bloke. He does the ARDS examinations for the junior championships such as the Ginetta Juniors and Formula BMW etc.,..
If you are not looking to go racing and have this kind of budget then spend it with one of the best coaches/instructors - the venue is unimportant, that way you will get the best value for money. If it was me I would be asking Rob Wilson to spend time teaching me (as I said above) - or at least one of the other two or three people who may possibly be as good.
Regards,
Robin
03 August 2006, 09:08 PM
#18
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I've done a couple of full days with an international rally driver which was beneficial, but more focussed to track and tight b-road driving with the emphasis on braking late and controlling drift. By far the best road driving tuition I have received was from a Police Class 1 pursuit driver. Fortunately he is a friend and member of our local Scooby club so it was a bargain, but he now offers it on a semi-professional level for about £100 a day. They use the Roadcraft technique which is all about hazard awareness and anticipation combined with fluid balance of the car. Once the learning begins kicking in you cannot believe how much quicker your car can corner when the weight isn't being thrown all over the place and the car is stable, planted and on power throughout the bend. PM me if you want details and are prepared to travel to Yorkshire for a day.
03 August 2006, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by corradoboy
I've done a couple of full days with an international rally driver which was beneficial, but more focussed to track and tight b-road driving with the emphasis on braking late and controlling drift. By far the best road driving tuition I have received was from a Police Class 1 pursuit driver. Fortunately he is a friend and member of our local Scooby club so it was a bargain, but he now offers it on a semi-professional level for about £100 a day. They use the Roadcraft technique which is all about hazard awareness and anticipation combined with fluid balance of the car. Once the learning begins kicking in you cannot believe how much quicker your car can corner when the weight isn't being thrown all over the place and the car is stable, planted and on power throughout the bend. PM me if you want details and are prepared to travel to Yorkshire for a day.
04 August 2006, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Neanderthal
Honestly though, before paying mega bucks to go on a training course, book yourself on a track day, I'd recommend Bedford Autodrome (unless you're car is uber loud cause they won't let you on). Bedford has massive run off areas so you're free to explore the limts of the car (and yourself) in as safe an environment as you could possibly get.
I was on the infamous SIDC Bedford Autodrome day from years back when half the people got banned from going on track cause their cars were too loud. Came away from the day with a new found respect for the Impreza, knowing that unless I was going to be driving like a tw@t there was no way I could get anywhere near the limits of the car on the public highway.
I was on the infamous SIDC Bedford Autodrome day from years back when half the people got banned from going on track cause their cars were too loud. Came away from the day with a new found respect for the Impreza, knowing that unless I was going to be driving like a tw@t there was no way I could get anywhere near the limits of the car on the public highway.
Bedford it is then.
Are there other alternative tracks that have wide run offs etc?
Just in case my Afterburner decat is too loud. Maybe closer to home too...
04 August 2006, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by SamUK
Thats because Scoobs are **** at handling....well MY03 STI is...
on the standard wheels i actaully span right around comming off a roundabout...not sure if it were crap tyres or the fact the the cars too light...
on the standard wheels i actaully span right around comming off a roundabout...not sure if it were crap tyres or the fact the the cars too light...
04 August 2006, 12:59 PM
#23
Bedford would be good fun (I was one of the Bedford 28!) but it won't teach you much if you don't know how to control a car or what lines to take etc other than it's a hoot.
Don Palmer gets my vote too for finding the car's limit (not as high as you might imagine actually), your limit, what happens over those limits and what actions you take then.
Mainly done on a runway, then moves on to a circuit, plus some b road driving tips. One day - circa £300 per person ( usually 2-3 persons on a day) , plus you use your own car i.e. the one you will actually be in if you find the limit on the road somewhere.
Great value.
Don Palmer gets my vote too for finding the car's limit (not as high as you might imagine actually), your limit, what happens over those limits and what actions you take then.
Mainly done on a runway, then moves on to a circuit, plus some b road driving tips. One day - circa £300 per person ( usually 2-3 persons on a day) , plus you use your own car i.e. the one you will actually be in if you find the limit on the road somewhere.
Great value.
04 August 2006, 01:56 PM
#24
I know a smooth track day racing line from a Go-Kart 'scruff of the neck' line.
Good driving comes from car control, which comes from the ability to 'feel' what the car is doing and 'know' what it will do in a certain situation.
A lot of drivers mistake that for familiarity with the vehicle in question.
I don't think anyone knows the limits of anything, until they have passed it. As I understand it, -that is Don Palmers teaching point.
Find the limit frst, and then learn to use it.
One other comment,
Impreza's, as standard, have a lot of grip (being 4wd), but not naturally good suspension and steering feel . You should not wrap the two up as the same thing and call it handling.
Good driving comes from car control, which comes from the ability to 'feel' what the car is doing and 'know' what it will do in a certain situation.
A lot of drivers mistake that for familiarity with the vehicle in question.
I don't think anyone knows the limits of anything, until they have passed it. As I understand it, -that is Don Palmers teaching point.
Find the limit frst, and then learn to use it.
One other comment,
Impreza's, as standard, have a lot of grip (being 4wd), but not naturally good suspension and steering feel . You should not wrap the two up as the same thing and call it handling.
04 August 2006, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hol
I don't think anyone knows the limits of anything, until they have passed it. As I understand it, -that is Don Palmers teaching point.
Find the limit frst, and then learn to use it.
Find the limit frst, and then learn to use it.
04 August 2006, 05:08 PM
#26
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Been out 4 times now with an advanced police trainer, once with the chap corradoboy mentioned, and twice with an I.A.M instructor. Currently about to start my full I.A.M course next week, wish me luck 
, and will be paying Don Lyon? a visit hopefully early next year too. I don't think you can get enough instruction on how to drive well, and although track based is ok, it's no substitute for the real road and real situations.
Sam uk, too much speed, not enough skill in anticipating the hazard ahead, that's why you spun, not the car.
, and will be paying Don Lyon? a visit hopefully early next year too. I don't think you can get enough instruction on how to drive well, and although track based is ok, it's no substitute for the real road and real situations. Sam uk, too much speed, not enough skill in anticipating the hazard ahead, that's why you spun, not the car.
04 August 2006, 11:41 PM
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I can heartily recommend the guy corrradoboy and cw42 are on about. Its a no nonsense day, customised to suit your ability. He is very good and very reasonable, and will talk in your language. It may be a way to travel for you, but am sure he will come to some arrangement with you. He aint in it to make a load of money, just to improve the general way we all drive. He's well worth the effort. He took me from joe average, to bloomin good driver in a matter of 2 lessons. Say no more 
05 August 2006, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by kingofturds
I have not, 4wd gives you a false sense of heightened driving ability, I tried to take a roundabout in a rwd omega in the wet the other day, at the same speed as the scoob and I was fishtailing al over the place
I mean its wet out. Your in a RWD car on a roundabout in the day and you drive it like a 4WD scooby.LOCK UP YOUR KIDS , BAD DRIVER ON THE LOOSE......(now you walked into that one mate!!)
Last edited by LegacySTi; 05 August 2006 at 01:08 AM.
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