SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

******** Update from original Posting *************

Decided to make a new thread to gain some better coverage and response.
See here for the original thread

https://www.scoobynet.com/testing-wa...a-t524603.html

Apologies for not replying to all the posts on that thread earlier, several things got in the way, but after a very interesting conversation this morning with a certain local garage, it seems there certainly is a very real and pressing need to get this idea rolling once again.

I think the best way to rescue this notion of an area,where people can add real world experiences good or bad, rate their local suppliers/garages/dealers etc, all without fear of being gagged, posts deleted and in the safe knowledge that there will be no legal or libel repurcussions, would be to revisit several ideas that were originally mooted and come to a conclusion as to the best way to tackle this idea.

So to start off, I will give a breakdown of the reasons behind this idea and more importantly a brief precis of the solutions so far.

The reasons why this should get off the ground

After being subjected to some sub-standard work from a local garage and more recently a close fellow subaru owner having even worse service from the same garage, it was felt that enough was enough, and there should exist, some form of online presence, whereby fellow owners can check other people's experiences of local garages/suppliers/dealers,before parting with their hard earned cash.

Also after my conversation with said local garage this morning (and no I wont name them ),it seems that Scoobynet has undergone a subtle policy change over the last few months in terms of allowing us to express our views in the forums.
In contrast to this comment from webmaster


Quote:
This can get complicated, but we do not shy away from people giving factual, clear and balanced feedback about companies. What we do not allow is contentious or outright comments / statements that are libel, slanderous etc etc.

I have never and would never say that negative or positive feedback about ANY supplier etc can not be made on ScoobyNet.

Unfortunately, a few people seem to think that "Freedom of Speech" exists (which it does not in this country) in the context of being able to say what they want.

Best of luck mate.

A few close friends and fellow subaru drivers have attempted to post up non -libellous comments reagrding various garages/dealers etc and these posts have been deleted. I wont go into details here, but suffice to say these posts were not of the naming and shaming variety, nor were they libel/slanderous.
In fact I know that a few moderators are not happy at the way this subject is handled within the community.

So lets not kid ourselves,we will not be rolling out this idea within this community.

The ideas so far together with Pro's and Con's

A Forum based system
Not unlike the dealers section on here

The good points are the feedback or entries are immediate, up to date and can be accessed by a very wide section of people.Forum software is fairly inexpensive to setup and can be expanded as and when the forum requires.
Bad points...quite a few ! A lot of people say that there are so many legal implications to this, in the same way that this forum struggles with, that it would either have to be hosted in countries that have no jurisdiction in terms of legal rights and freedom of speech.(not exactly what I want to get into)
or be heavily moderated, but then we are back to square one.

Thx to sharkman, shooter007 for your views on forums and bedhog for offering to host the forum.

An "Ebay/Amazon" site site with star rating
The beauty of this is that these sites seem to exist with no concern with libellous comments and no control over what people post (to a degree) and the star rating or feedback rating is a very simple idea.
As mentioned in my first post, I think online reviews influence your decision whether to purchase said good/service and could save you time and money.

However, as many people pointed out, this has potential for many incorrect comments, spoofed reviews and legal implications. Furthermore, there may be a lot of administration involved, which if I was the sole admin, would be difficult to cope with at the start.

thx to alext32, the chief RI9KET, etc for your comments on this idea

A simple HTML based site with feedback form

Obviously very easy to setup, no cost involved, just a bit of time to design and then administrate.This is easy to do, simple to execute and can be up and running in a short time and all it needs is small database of comments and reviews to get started.

To give you an idea, bottomfeeder posted this site that has all these elements (just its badly executed and poorly designed).

http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/garages_neng.html

Downside is, its fairly basic, quite subjective and is heavily reliant on someone (yes me) cut'n' pasting all these comments from the forms.
But its a start.

Then I found this today and here we have a good compromise.
Their review section isnt up and running yet, but what they do have is a section whereby you can calculate what a typical job should cost. Now how useful is that???

http://www.shouldpay.co.uk/a3.php

Now here they get around the prickly subject of non related reviews or spoofed comments by doing this.


Quote:
To maintain the integrity of the information we hold, we ask that users who leave feedback register with us. Once registered and verified, Users will be able to give an honest account of there experiences with certain garages.

Now this site may do it already and maybe we should wait until it is finished, but I, for one, am quite happy to spend my time setting up our own site.
I will be feeling my way in all this endeavour, which is why my final plea is once again for feedback on all of the above.

Items I need feedback and your comments on are:

* Which idea (if any) is the best?
* Any ideas on how best to setup, host, design and implement any of these ideas (dont worry I do have some help and experience to hand)
* things I need to avoid, pitfalls etc
* and finally the raw data. To get any of these ideas off the ground, I will be needing some feedback.It may be better to wait until we have the framework of the idea in place and the website up, however raw data is always good to get started and something we can use to test before going live.

SO..........................

I welcome all comments

Swen6

I'm with you Swiss

rossi_classicwrx

This seems like a brilliant idea. I could give pleanty of feedback of different garages and companys ive used.. some brilliant others at the other end of the scale. I would be very interested in a site like this. Im afraid i don't have a good knowledge of hosting websites and anything on that side of things but i would definatly join and support a site like this!!

Lee247

A name or shame site, I like it

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

actually that is not exactly what I have in mind, I want it to be balanced and objective, but yes, it will have comments and content from people who are not happy with the service they have received and yes the idea was sparked after a spate of poor service to both myself and friends.
However, it is not the overall idea behind the site.

Though it sounds as though you will be adding your 2p's worth

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

thx for that, am aiming to get something up and running over the next month.
stay tuned and ready for adding your comments

Lee247

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

ah bless

Lee247

I'll give my input when required

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

why thank you sweetheart...
been working on it tonight

Lee247

no playtime then

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

Roundup of the progress so far.

It looks like a website (not forum) is the best avenue to take, based on some feedback I have had from friends. The feedback I have received from you lot is frankly pathetic

I have spoken to our sister company (web design) and they are busy doing the preliminary mockups of it as we speak.
Just trying to sort out domains for the site, loads are already taken, but not live. Favourite so far is www.ratemygarage.net or similar.
Not quite sure if a co.uk or .com is better, just tricky trying to get a good domain that is both available and also conveys what I am trying to achieve.
(obviously www.****egarages.co.uk was available but not exactly what I wanted )

Over the next month will be designing the site, setting up the various databases needed to feed the site, generate data, registration etc.

On the subject of user registration, we have decided that a system, whereby people who want to leave comments, have to be verified is best and to stop the amount of potential spoofing and fake posts/comments that could occur, we are thinking that no web based email address's will be allowed.
There may be other systems we need to put in place for this registration process, if anyone has some better ideas, feel free to comment.

Still trying to keep it simple and will do a mockup before going live.
Will probably seed this to you lot to get your feedback on content, design, function etc, before letting it loose.

On the subject of funding, we do have some ideas in how to fund the site. A lot of people have expressed their desire to help and give their time for free.
For that I am thankful. However there may be some degree of funding required and although advertising/sponsership is the easiet way, to be truely independent and impartial, i would be interested if anyone has any good ideas.

Thanks for your time and will hope to have some more news on the progress later on.

WRX RCY GEM

Looks like you have already started the ball rolling.
I was just going to suggest a forum based site such proboards server.
You can have different threads for dealers, garages etc and each garage could have a poll where people rate the service etc and leave comments if they wish.
Its free ,simple to use and it allows a member just to rate the garage and leave it at that.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Excellent idea. There are no excuses these days for poor quality work/service.
I can see however, this proposed system getting abused, but what system doesn't? (trolls, trolls and more bl*ody trolls!)

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

many thanks for that comment. yes the forum based one is the easiest one to implement, simply take an off the shelf BBS site, tweak it for what I want, job done. But.... the idea of poll is very simplistic, that would only work if there are quite a few ppl who have had experience of such and such garage/supplier etc.
also it dosent really cover the whole idea of a rating, plus a comments section. That is what we are trying to achieve.
appreciate the feedback, all good

WRX RCY GEM

What I meant was with a proboards forum you can have a rating at the top of each thread and comments below if people wish to add comments that is.

If that is what you are looking for that is...

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

true, true and one damm good reason for the website.
If I could create a website/resource that helped many drivers save the hassle and money by not taking their business to suppliers/garages that are rubbish and in turn it helped improve the level of service we receive, then if that changed only one garage, then the site would have achieved its purpose.

the abuse of the system is one issue that is going to be very hard to deal with, but i guess we will learn as we go along and adapt

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

sorry, I may have misunderstood you...could you send a link to some of these proboards you speak about, so i can check them out and see how relevant they are.
cheers

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Ratings system seems the fairest way, people can express their views without any potential libelous comments.
Just need to watch out for renegade thread raters

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

yes those troublesome thread raters...mmmm better watch out for those tossers

actually we are going to have a ratings system, like ebay. simple ones are the best, positive, neutral, negative. Then a small section for comments, limited by characters. Obviously all abusive comments will be deleted, we want objective comments end of.
And to alleviate ourselves of any ligitigation issues, we shall of course have a large disclaimer section
Finally on the comments section, we are thinking it might be useful to have a CONTACT link to the posters. So once the commenter has left his feedback, there will be a link, whereby anyone interested as to why said person left such a comment and rating, can contact the poster to inquire about further details.
Unlike ebay, this form of contact would be outside of the website.

This way, people thinking of going to use a certain garage/supplier, can check on the rating, browse some of the comments and get a good idea of what it is like before parting with their money. and if they still want to use the supplier, but see they have a poor rating, can enquire for further details, before making up their own mind.

so does all this sound about right and more importantly something that would be work and be useful?

ex-webby

SwissTony,

Please be aware though..... it makes no difference what disclaimer you have on the site. If it is published on your medium (website) YOU (owners of site) are liable for whatever content is produced (who ever produced it). This can get very very tricky and I would certainly suggest you seek professional legal advice.

Regards,
Shaun.

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

thx for that shaun... tbh it was a bit of a gaff saying that, I know in reality that even if you have a disclaimer in 8ft letters and in braille, the responsibility lies with me. I guess what i am trying to get across is various ideas of how best to skirt round various libellous pitfalls with the choice in medium, be it forum based or just a website with feedback based systems etc.
Obviously the minute any comments are made, you run the risk of hosting potential libelous opinions and as such then have to "moderate" them.
What i am trying to achieve is a level playing field that takes less time to administrate ( i have a full time job) and yet still provides a worthwhile service/online resource.

so legal advice may be advisable i guess...
so how much do you charge shaun QC ???