CyprusScooby

I want to fit some Sabelt Rally Harnesses to my 1999 Impreza. I dint want to have to drill any holes etc.
So whats the best ones to get, 3 or 4 Point?

Are they hard to fit?

GC8

Why? They can be deadly in a car that doesnt have a seperate roll cage (and a roll cage can be deadly if youre using OEM seats...). One firther point; if you dont want to fit them properly then Id ask you again: why bother?

Simon

to anyone who wants to know best and tell me that theyre perfectly safe in their road car; save your breath and spend your time finding out what youre talking about

image doctor

It looks well cool innit!

GC8

Hopelessly impractical: you cant move
Dangerous to use for everyday driving: you cant look around
Illegal as the only restraint in a road car
Seldom fitted properly
Extremely dangerous in the event of a large accident

image doctor

...yeah but they look cool.

I mean how hard is that to understand

GC8

CyprusScooby

How are thay extremly dangerous?
I've seen the effects that seatbelts do and thay cant be worse than that!

GC8

Its obvious surely? A seatbelt is designed to restrain you but still allow you to move. If youre wearing a silly harness thats holding you firmly into a seat, without any give at all and the body distorts; then youre fucked, arent you?

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Whats your thoughts about them on track?
(assuming they're with a proper fixed back bucket seat & mounted correctly)

CyprusScooby

But surely they use them in motorsport cause the're better!

CyprusScooby

Anyway, back to the original queation please!

GC8

Im going to let you think that through for a while. Are you driving a fully prepared race or rally car or just a road car.....?

CyprusScooby

Obviously a Road Car. Yes I know I only really want them for the visual aspect.

Carlos13

GC8, I understand and agree with most of your arguments. Until recently I had a cage and bucket seats + harnesses. I have removed the cage and seats (replaced with standard) as I want to use the car more on road. I will be doing some trackdays so have retained the harnesses (attached using a bolt-in harness bar) for use on track with the standard seats.

I can see that if the car rolls, you're potentially in a worse situation than you would be wearing a seatbelt. However, in other shunts, isn't it better to be firmly strapped in rather than rattling round like a pea in a tin can as you'd (relatively) be doing if wearing only a belt. Isn't it swings and roundabouts - seatbelt better in some circumstances, harness better in others?

Also, my car got through the MOT last year with only harnesses. Not sure if this was correct application of the rules, but aren't there some road-legal cars that are only fitted with harnesses...?

EddScott

Purely as a question and in no way meant as a "How do you know!?"

Is the roll cage and OE seats dangerous because OE seats will have some movement in an accident and you could hit the cage?

I've heard of harnesses being used with reclining seats and the forces in an accident bending/snapping the seat frame.

Carlos13

I would imagine so. When the cage was fitted, albeit with bucket seats, I was always nervous about my head hitting the cage on road where a helmet is not being worn.

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

Surely if you had a padded cage, fixed bucket seats & harnesses mounted correctly, thats going to be better if you roll the car as you're going to be secured in your seat when you go upside down. From in-car footage Ive watch on rally stages where they've rolled, it certainly looks more beneficial to me.

However I could understand that unless you're wearing a helmet/neck support/hans device, being in a big shunt where the deceleration is extremely rapid (using on public roads - on coming vehicles etc), your going to be worse off.

CyprusScooby -

If you are going to get one, get a 5 point harness so that it has a crotch strap (anti-submarining). Incidentally, they arent recommended to use with reclining seats as the seats will just collapse in the event of a big collision. In other words, dont use them on the road and without all the other relevant safety devices, otherwise... you could get yourself in a right pickle for the sake of looking cool (maybe???)

All just IMHO

RB5_245

the std seats have moving backs, with a relatively weak mechanism.
to stop yourself moving too far in an accident you have to be strapped in really tight. Putting a lot of pressure on the mechanism. When that breaks you're no longer held in at all.

3 or 4 points can ride up in an accident causing pressure in the chest or whatever, putting you in danger if you're unconcious. 5 or 6 point wont go in road seats

The belts need to be mounted correctly, which means back seats are useless.

If you want harnesses you must have fixed back seats, which won't collapse in a roll. In which case you want a cage so the seat wont need to collapse in a roll. Then you really want a helmet too incase you smash your head on the cage.

Competition cars have them as part of a complete package, on their own not very clever I think.

RB5_245

With a cage there is no longer any need for the collapsing function, so a solid seat firmly mounted is the way to do it. even tightly harnessed up it's surprising how much movement you get so with an oem seat and belt you'd have no chance.

Carlos13

Thanks for your advice RB5_245, much appreciated.

Why? What's the advantage of collapsing seat + seatbelt vs collapsing seat + harness?

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to sort this out for my own car in order to be as safe as possible.

AVZ

ja understand me guy innit

RB5_245

a seat belt is always adjusting and placing no strain on the seat back, when it locks you're restrained (all be it not very well) with only your body stressing the seat. Yes you can get flung like a rag doll, but i think not much more so that if your seat collapses and you're harnessed

If you're harnessed in, the seat is already pre-loaded with a large leverage action on the hinge. if that bends or collapses then your harness becomes a free floating spiders web. loose sholder straps and tight side straps, assuming 3 or 4 point... I think imagination can take over there but I can only see you ending up in a bad situation.

Has to be said, this is only my opinion.

Dave

Carlos13

Much appreciated, thanks. Are you saying that loosening the shoulder straps slightly, so as to mimic what a seatbelt does (but slightly better due to more/better straps, is better than strapping oneself in as tight as possible?

RB5_245

no, if you loosen the straps even a little, you really are in loose and actually can move a surprisingly long way forward! If you're strapped in the seat becomes a pivot, or bracket for the belt which has to accept any forces through it, where a 3 point seat belt is a standalone thing almost.

I'd say if you looked at it imagine driving on a stool. A 3 point belt would still work, but imagine strapping yourself in with a harness sitting on a stool, which is pretty much where you're at if you break the seat back.

Dave

Gutmann pug

Is it worth asking why you want to fit them or have you made your mind up no matter what?

wrxtankie

You can get 3 point harnesses with a roller, like a normal seat belt has.
I had these in my WRX and was involved in a head on. No problems here.

They were however mounted to the rear seat uprights. Not to the factory front seats which WILL fold on an Impact, they are designed to do so.

That said I will not use roller ones again. I am fitting an FIA cage FIA seat and harnesses in my track Impreza. My personal experience tells me that the 3 point harnesses were ok in a smash. My car was actually static at the time though. Things may have been different if I were moving at the time....

RB5_245

I think the point was he already has harnesses but no normal belts, and was considering the safety aspects of keeping these in place of a std belt.

CyprusScooby

Right so we have come to the conclusion that I should not fit harnesses under ANY circumstances as they are lethal!

Steve vRS

As has been said before, harnesses work as part of a four component safety system - harness rated seat, harness, cage and helmet. If you take one of those away the system is dangerous. If you have all of them then the car is safe.

Steve

PS For track work, I use a Cglock which I find holds me in place really well.

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

CyprusScooby, you aint been reading what people have put have you



Those CG Locks actually work out cheaper from Demon Tweeks