Power outputs on UK cars
11 June 2001, 04:59 AM
#1
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Just wondering what's a realistic maximum BHP i can get out of a UK spec turbo without going internal.
What have you lot achieved out there and with what mods?
I've done quite a bit of tuning to my car but think I may be limited to what else i can do as far as bolt on mods are concerned so thinking along the lines of going internal to release more power.
[Edited by AlanG - 11/6/2001 5:03:52 AM]
What have you lot achieved out there and with what mods?
I've done quite a bit of tuning to my car but think I may be limited to what else i can do as far as bolt on mods are concerned so thinking along the lines of going internal to release more power.
[Edited by AlanG - 11/6/2001 5:03:52 AM]
11 June 2001, 12:36 PM
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Hi Rich,
I haven't done that much really
but the modification list follows:
Power Enterprise PE1818 Turbo
APS Front Mount Intercooler
APS Induction Kit
APS Dump Valve
Link (Q-chip 10 row)
Scoobysport Downpipe
Scoobysport Backbox/Magnex Centre (Recently changed for a HKS titanium Hiper which seems to have freed up another restriction!)
I paid about £4k for the above modifications, but I got some good (second hand) bargains. A lot money either way, but fun all the same!!!
I'm about to drop in some Apexi 550cc injectors to help the fuelling, as well as having my headers ported. Once this stage of modifications is completed, it will have cost me about £4.5k!!!
Cheers
Andy
Ps - All modifications installed by Surrey Performance!
Items were either bought from BRD, Jan Shim, NAM or secondhand.
[Edited by Andy Tang - 11/6/2001 12:40:26 PM]
I haven't done that much really
but the modification list follows:Power Enterprise PE1818 Turbo
APS Front Mount Intercooler
APS Induction Kit
APS Dump Valve
Link (Q-chip 10 row)
Scoobysport Downpipe
Scoobysport Backbox/Magnex Centre (Recently changed for a HKS titanium Hiper which seems to have freed up another restriction!)
I paid about £4k for the above modifications, but I got some good (second hand) bargains. A lot money either way, but fun all the same!!!
I'm about to drop in some Apexi 550cc injectors to help the fuelling, as well as having my headers ported. Once this stage of modifications is completed, it will have cost me about £4.5k!!!
Cheers
Andy
Ps - All modifications installed by Surrey Performance!
Items were either bought from BRD, Jan Shim, NAM or secondhand.
[Edited by Andy Tang - 11/6/2001 12:40:26 PM]
11 July 2001, 08:58 AM
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Andy T & Steve M - huge power lads
I read the results from the shoot-out the other day. Steve, I was talking to Kevin @ Well Lane yesterday & mentioned your motor, he said it was a bit of a monster
I can't imagine what another 100lbs of torque must feel like
Alan G - Getting back to the original question:I have a MY95 with the following mods:
Magnex downpipe, centre section & backbox, "superchip" & KnN induction kit. The chip was set @ 16.5 & went in yesterday to get the KnN fitted, still sitting happy @ 16.5 psi.
I get 278 bhp @ 6200 & 240 lbs @ 6200
However, looking back I would have gone for the Link or Unichip rather than the superchip if I'd have known about it first. Sam Elsar & Adam M gave some great advice on this subject about 3 months ago
shunty
[Edited by shunty - 11/7/2001 9:02:08 AM]
I read the results from the shoot-out the other day. Steve, I was talking to Kevin @ Well Lane yesterday & mentioned your motor, he said it was a bit of a monster
I can't imagine what another 100lbs of torque must feel like
Alan G - Getting back to the original question:I have a MY95 with the following mods:
Magnex downpipe, centre section & backbox, "superchip"
& KnN induction kit. The chip was set @ 16.5 & went in yesterday to get the KnN fitted, still sitting happy @ 16.5 psi.I get 278 bhp @ 6200 & 240 lbs @ 6200
However, looking back I would have gone for the Link or Unichip rather than the superchip if I'd have known about it first. Sam Elsar & Adam M gave some great advice on this subject about 3 months ago
shunty
[Edited by shunty - 11/7/2001 9:02:08 AM]
11 July 2001, 07:11 PM
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T-uk
Interesting comment re: people with big power not doing track days....
Perhaps I should follow Sam's lead and feel the benefit of experiencing 2 broken gearboxes, a driveshaft, suspension top, clutch, numerous sets of tyres amongst other things, due to repeated track use.....
A
[Edited by AlanG - 11/7/2001 7:23:16 PM]
[Edited by AlanG - 11/7/2001 7:24:23 PM]
[Edited by AlanG - 11/7/2001 7:39:04 PM]
Interesting comment re: people with big power not doing track days....
Perhaps I should follow Sam's lead and feel the benefit of experiencing 2 broken gearboxes, a driveshaft, suspension top, clutch, numerous sets of tyres amongst other things, due to repeated track use.....
A
[Edited by AlanG - 11/7/2001 7:23:16 PM]
[Edited by AlanG - 11/7/2001 7:24:23 PM]
[Edited by AlanG - 11/7/2001 7:39:04 PM]
11 August 2001, 12:25 AM
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D+D,
decided that I have to draw the line somewhere before I fall into the trap of big turbos,front mount,suspension.................
almost bought Sams link stuff but I know it would not stop there and decided it would be easier and cheaper to buy a evo 6 .
anyway I'm blowing loads on trackdays and loving every second of it and the money I'm saving not modding will pay for those gearboxes and drive shafts.
john
[Edited by T-uk - 11/8/2001 12:38:11 AM]
decided that I have to draw the line somewhere before I fall into the trap of big turbos,front mount,suspension.................
almost bought Sams link stuff but I know it would not stop there and decided it would be easier and cheaper to buy a evo 6
.anyway I'm blowing loads on trackdays and loving every second of it and the money I'm saving not modding will pay for those gearboxes and drive shafts.
john
[Edited by T-uk - 11/8/2001 12:38:11 AM]
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06 November 2001, 11:22 AM
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I know of about 5 UK/Euro cars pushing well into the 300's (mine included) with standard internals! They all have had new (bigger)turbos and, some have bigger injectors and front mounted intercoolers. Most run Links, the other runs a boost controller.
Last rolling road session on my car produced 334bhp and 284ftlb of torque. This should be more, but my injectors are reaching 100% duty cycle at 6,000rpm and the redline has been raised to 7,500rpm!! The car was running a little rich (at points), so that can be converted to power!! Also once the fuelling has been increased at the top end (which is too lean), I should see more power there too!
There is no det (I hope) from the engine, but it does get a bit noisy at 6,000rpm up! (ie - KnockLink flickering the green LED's)
I know that to utilise what I have, I might need to go internal and start looking at forged pistons and uprated conrods, as a minimum, along with maybe some head work and head gaskets.
We'll see!!
Cheers
Andy
Edited to try and keep Adam happy!
[Edited by Andy Tang - 11/6/2001 4:08:11 PM]
Last rolling road session on my car produced 334bhp and 284ftlb of torque. This should be more, but my injectors are reaching 100% duty cycle at 6,000rpm and the redline has been raised to 7,500rpm!!
The car was running a little rich (at points), so that can be converted to power!! Also once the fuelling has been increased at the top end (which is too lean), I should see more power there too!There is no det (I hope) from the engine, but it does get a bit noisy at 6,000rpm up! (ie - KnockLink flickering the green LED's)
I know that to utilise what I have, I might need to go internal and start looking at forged pistons and uprated conrods, as a minimum, along with maybe some head work and head gaskets.
We'll see!!
Cheers
Andy
Edited to try and keep Adam happy!
[Edited by Andy Tang - 11/6/2001 4:08:11 PM]
06 November 2001, 11:46 AM
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Andy,
Isn't it a bit risky upping your redline without going internal first? IIRC, you have cast pistons in UK spec, and these have significantly more mass than forged sti ones, which is, I suspect, one of the reasons for the lower rev limit.
Moray
Isn't it a bit risky upping your redline without going internal first? IIRC, you have cast pistons in UK spec, and these have significantly more mass than forged sti ones, which is, I suspect, one of the reasons for the lower rev limit.
Moray
06 November 2001, 12:12 PM
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The increased rev limit is a bit interesting...does the ports flow enough to be able to take adrvantage of the extra revs...are the camshafts suited for this...size and lift od the valves?
The valvesprings themselves...can they support the extra stress, when do they start to "float"...and so on...get my drift?
IMHO increased revs do bugger all on a euro spec scoob, IF you haven't installed a huge turbo that kicks in at 5000 rpm...or if you want to do 170 mph. ;D
It's a rally-ish intended drivetrain, designed for midrange oompfh...and it's there we spend most of the time - innit?
Cheers
/J
The valvesprings themselves...can they support the extra stress, when do they start to "float"...and so on...get my drift?
IMHO increased revs do bugger all on a euro spec scoob, IF you haven't installed a huge turbo that kicks in at 5000 rpm...or if you want to do 170 mph. ;D
It's a rally-ish intended drivetrain, designed for midrange oompfh...and it's there we spend most of the time - innit?
Cheers
/J
06 November 2001, 12:39 PM
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...then there's always uprated pistons...rods...and THEN a dogbox, paddle clutches..diffs....more boost -> even bigger injectors -> cracked block, purchase a closed deck 2.5 from cobb tuning - > bigger turbo and so on and so forth. *lol*
/J
*lol*/J
06 November 2001, 12:44 PM
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Jerry,
We spoke about this the other night! You know about my clutch fund!!!
Seriously though, the 'second phase' of my car will be a long way away!
Sod it, I might just sell my car, and get a 'fugly' STI!
Anyone want a 'slighty' modified MY99 UK car???
Cheers
Andy
We spoke about this the other night! You know about my clutch fund!!!
Seriously though, the 'second phase' of my car will be a long way away!
Sod it, I might just sell my car, and get a 'fugly' STI!
Anyone want a 'slighty' modified MY99 UK car???
Cheers
Andy
06 November 2001, 02:34 PM
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AlanG,
To get back to some of us who have only small power.....
UK MY00 with straight through exhaust system - 237BHP 235Lb/Ft torque. At a dyno day in Bournmouth I remember seeing a similar car but with a filter with 247BHP and approx 240Lb/Ft torque.
Not bad for a minor adjustment....... you big boys in the 300+ club
J
To get back to some of us who have only small power.....
UK MY00 with straight through exhaust system - 237BHP 235Lb/Ft torque. At a dyno day in Bournmouth I remember seeing a similar car but with a filter with 247BHP and approx 240Lb/Ft torque.
Not bad for a minor adjustment....... you big boys in the 300+ club
J
06 November 2001, 03:44 PM
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Some of the other figures I've had with my car:
271bhp - with Unifilter RamPod Induction kit, Scoobysport downpipe, Scoobysport Backbox and Magnex Centre (with resonator)
280bhp - with above and running a HKS EVC 4, set to 17.5psi!
271bhp - with Unifilter RamPod Induction kit, Scoobysport downpipe, Scoobysport Backbox and Magnex Centre (with resonator)
280bhp - with above and running a HKS EVC 4, set to 17.5psi!
06 November 2001, 03:52 PM
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Andy and others.
is it just me who finds it odd that you are running rich (equals a bit more power) but need new injectors which can cope with the fuelling (which you think give you more power).
You cant have it both ways.
is it just me who finds it odd that you are running rich (equals a bit more power) but need new injectors which can cope with the fuelling (which you think give you more power).
You cant have it both ways.
06 November 2001, 03:57 PM
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Adam,
What are you asking or telling me?
I know my injectors are reaching 100% duty cycle at 6,000rpm. I also know that through some of that 0-6,000rpm I'm running slightly rich!
So maybe I mistyped it, or got hold of the wrong end of the stick, but I though I would be able to lean out a little through the rich bit, and with the big injectors run richer up the top end of the rev range (and reduce the duty cycle), which is running lean at the moment??
Or am I talking bollocks?
What are you asking or telling me?
I know my injectors are reaching 100% duty cycle at 6,000rpm. I also know that through some of that 0-6,000rpm I'm running slightly rich!
So maybe I mistyped it, or got hold of the wrong end of the stick, but I though I would be able to lean out a little through the rich bit, and with the big injectors run richer up the top end of the rev range (and reduce the duty cycle), which is running lean at the moment??
Or am I talking bollocks?
06 November 2001, 04:43 PM
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If the injectors doesn't wupply enough fuel for the air mass at 6000 rpm, a rich mid end has very little do do with things - or am I wrong here?
WIth my puny itty bitty wee ickle VF24 I'm seeing v close to 90% duty cycle on my stock 440's at >6000 rpm, I have no doubt that Andys tarty huge *** (silly expensive?) hot rod blower delivers a tad more air into the plenum.
Anyway, there seems to be quite a few 300 break euro spec ones running about, has anyone had problems with the rods yet?
/J
WIth my puny itty bitty wee ickle VF24 I'm seeing v close to 90% duty cycle on my stock 440's at >6000 rpm, I have no doubt that Andys tarty huge *** (silly expensive?) hot rod blower delivers a tad more air into the plenum.
Anyway, there seems to be quite a few 300 break euro spec ones running about, has anyone had problems with the rods yet?
/J
06 November 2001, 04:53 PM
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For simple mods on MY00 - s/s downpipe and mid with TSL backbox + ITG panel filter, I got 257bhp/258lbs - add ProBoost to that and you get 261bhp/264lbs - Not bad for a few hundred quid
06 November 2001, 07:24 PM
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Evenin' all
Thanks for the replies, interesting comments.
Andy, are you still using the std fuel pump and/or pressure regulator?
How much is it for the injectors and how do you know what to go for?
My concerns about replacing the injectors are the low end fuelling of the car or can this be ironed out by the Link? (I'm thinking along the lines of the old days with grey injectors on the Cossies and bore wash at low rpm.)
Is the HKS mid section a bigger bore size than the Magnex you replaced and hence the improvement?
Rich,
Hi there, long time no speak, I'm still searching for warp factor 9!!! How did you get on with your probs we spoke about last time? Mail offline if you wish.
Re: camshafts, can anyone give me the spec of the std shafts fitted to the scoob? (duration, lift, opening/closing etc) and any links to sites offering alternative camshafts. (Detailed info would help rather than "rally spec")...tells you hee haw...
Cheers peeps
A
VF22
'Q' Link
3" complete de-cat
Ported manifolds.
Thanks for the replies, interesting comments.
Andy, are you still using the std fuel pump and/or pressure regulator?
How much is it for the injectors and how do you know what to go for?
My concerns about replacing the injectors are the low end fuelling of the car or can this be ironed out by the Link? (I'm thinking along the lines of the old days with grey injectors on the Cossies and bore wash at low rpm.)
Is the HKS mid section a bigger bore size than the Magnex you replaced and hence the improvement?
Rich,
Hi there, long time no speak, I'm still searching for warp factor 9!!! How did you get on with your probs we spoke about last time? Mail offline if you wish.
Re: camshafts, can anyone give me the spec of the std shafts fitted to the scoob? (duration, lift, opening/closing etc) and any links to sites offering alternative camshafts. (Detailed info would help rather than "rally spec")...tells you hee haw...
Cheers peeps
A
VF22
'Q' Link
3" complete de-cat
Ported manifolds.
06 November 2001, 07:38 PM
#22
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Hi Alan,
I got the injectors secondhand quite cheaply. Bob seems to think that 550cc injectors will be fine.
Currently the fuel pump and regulators are standard, although I am looking at uprated items.
The HKS items are 3" pipes, while the Scoobysport and Magnex items are 2.5".
Cheers
Andy
I got the injectors secondhand quite cheaply. Bob seems to think that 550cc injectors will be fine.
Currently the fuel pump and regulators are standard, although I am looking at uprated items.
The HKS items are 3" pipes, while the Scoobysport and Magnex items are 2.5".
Cheers
Andy
as my 204.5bhp std MY00 backs up.
06 November 2001, 11:48 PM
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Andy
Sorry have not read 90% of thread - dya think 550's will be enough?
I too hit the maximum at circa 6000 rpm. - That said it did get circa 346hp and 341lbs torquw at Well Lane - lets see if AI can beat this at Power - doubtful - I'm sure Trout can!
Bobs car, which now has similar mods maxes out in the mid to upper 70's on 740's meaning that the 550's would be too small
Was also told that the fule pump could take it!
As far as the Cossies go - I think I changed everything on my Escort Cossie - the pump/injectors and rails were all fairly pathetic on the std car!
Sorry have not read 90% of thread - dya think 550's will be enough?
I too hit the maximum at circa 6000 rpm. - That said it did get circa 346hp and 341lbs torquw at Well Lane - lets see if AI can beat this at Power - doubtful - I'm sure Trout can!
Bobs car, which now has similar mods maxes out in the mid to upper 70's on 740's meaning that the 550's would be too small
Was also told that the fule pump could take it!
As far as the Cossies go - I think I changed everything on my Escort Cossie - the pump/injectors and rails were all fairly pathetic on the std car!
07 November 2001, 03:13 AM
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Andy
What sort of boost were you running to get that figure of 330+ ?
I'm only running at 18psi just now and don't want to run more cause of the cast pistons.
Anyone any suggestions for camshafts?
A
What sort of boost were you running to get that figure of 330+ ?
I'm only running at 18psi just now and don't want to run more cause of the cast pistons.
Anyone any suggestions for camshafts?
A
07 November 2001, 09:22 AM
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Steve,
I guess from a realistic point of view, if I needed injectors larger than 550cc, what sort of power will the engine have the cope with!
I've been offered a very lovely set of 660cc injectors, but they were quite pricey!
If say the duty cycle is about 80% round about 6,800-7,000rpm, I will consider getting Bob to lower the redline. Either way I trust Bob to map my car, so I will take his advice from there on in!
I'm hoping that the addition of an uprated fuel pump and fuel regulator will help the fuelling issue. If not, I might have a set of 550cc injectors for sale!!!
Cheers
Andy
I guess from a realistic point of view, if I needed injectors larger than 550cc, what sort of power will the engine have the cope with!
I've been offered a very lovely set of 660cc injectors, but they were quite pricey!
If say the duty cycle is about 80% round about 6,800-7,000rpm, I will consider getting Bob to lower the redline. Either way I trust Bob to map my car, so I will take his advice from there on in!
I'm hoping that the addition of an uprated fuel pump and fuel regulator will help the fuelling issue. If not, I might have a set of 550cc injectors for sale!!!
Cheers
Andy