alwong

I was wondering if anyone has this fitted to there newage impreza (03-05 plate)

I spoke to TSL today and they mentioned that the TSL333 was better with the Pulse extraction system fitted and it would only cost an extra £200 if I do it the same time as the TSL333 upgrade. Normally the pulse extraction costs £1000.

They have it all fitted to their demo car and asked me to come down and try it. They reckon BHP nearer 350!

(This is on a 53 plate standard sti)

RLE

iTrader: (2)

350 on the standard turbo?

simo

give Zen Performance & Powerstation a call & see what they can offer. Worth shopping around before you spend all your hard earned. 350 brake does seem a lot from any supplier on a standard Turbo but I am sure it can be achieved, how long it lasts well???

frayz

iTrader: (7)

Biggest problem with trying to extract that power form the stock turbo is the cooling of the charge temps.

alwong

350 bhp from the standard sti including the TSL 333 upgrade.

alwong

Alot of members on here have had the TSL 333 upgrade and they rated very high. It was also rated very high in the evo magazine against other tuners. The only thing is whether this pulse extraction system which takes it further (From 333bhp to 350bhp) has worked for you guys?

RLE

iTrader: (2)

I've got the 333 upgrade on my 53 plate sti. I'm now looking to up the power to around the 350-360 mark with some further mods including a 20G turbo.

I doubt you'd be able to get the quoted 350 on the stock sti turbo. Mine did 332 bhp at a recent rolling road day and was pretty much out of puff.

The TSL is a decent package dont get me wrong but given my time again I'd be going a different route (as I now am)

alwong

which route would you have gone?

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

When I was at TSL in March having my STi PPP re-mapped (result is probably very close to the 333) there was a guy having the 333 with the pulse extraction system on a 53 STi Unfortunately, I left before the mapping was complete so never got his impressions. I regret not getting his E-mail as we had a good chat during the day.
JohnD

alwong

It been nice to find out comments on it.

I still don't know why the turbo couldn't push out another 17bhp?? to the claimed 350 if you can easily get the tsl 333.

p1doc

i have tsl 333 with decat and chargecooler so should be around 340/350bhp but had a go in graham's 05 demo with 333/chargecooler/sports cat and pulse extraction-big difference more acceleration more noise but more cost i would have got it but already had tsl group n exhaust etc
martin

alwong

So you recommend the pulse extractions when having the TSL333??

p1doc

graham at tsl recommends it and by the drive i had it seems worth the extra £200 to get it done,have a drive of demo i did and there is a big difference
compared to mine
martin

alwong

thanks for the advice.

Gary C

Pulse extraction ?

I take it you mean an exhaust arrangement that uses the negative pressure wave when the flow reaches a collector to increase exhaust flow. This should might increase the puff of the standard turbo, but tuned length devices have a limited rev range, is this system then tuned to resonate just as the turbo is running out puff ?

360ste

iTrader: (1)

Why do people say you can't get 350 bhp off the standard turbo? I've got a bugeye STi running 360bhp recorded on two different dyno's. Or am i missing something?

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

I spoke to TSL today about a 333 conversion on an 03 STI, plus the slightly unequal headers. They reckon that these headers allows them to map another 6-8% more fuel and let the engine rev more freely as well as aiding turbo spool up. They said I could expect around 350bhp with the headers and pulse extraction system. But they're not cheap (£450 minimum), so I've been wondering whether I should bite the bullet and go for an uprated turbo instead??

RLE

iTrader: (2)

I'm just referring to my own set up mate although many others do agree that the VF35 is good for only 350. Strange thing is even Gavin and Paul @ TSL said my turbo was restricting progress over the 350 threshold.

I'm not entirely happy with the 333 pack. On the A ^ B roads its fantastic and the majority of cars I come across struggle to stay with it (aided by AST's I guess) but in a straight line I think the performance is, dare I say it, quite sluggish. I'm hoping the 20G can sort this out...............

Nice figures btw.

alwong

I'll chat to John again at TSL and find out a little more about the TSL with this Pulse extraction system (Whatever it is).

I'll try and find out the pros and cons to having this BHP running through with standard components. (Clutch, Gearbox etc)

If anyone has had it done and can pass on some useful comments, i'll be more than grateful.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

My thoughts and scepetisims too, especially with the high exhaust pressures before the turbo and lack of after (in addition to a a well designed and tuned system to extract gases after the turbo).

I've worked with enough 2 strokes to learn the pulse extraction/scavenging effects of tuned lengths and expansion chambers. One gain gives a loss somewhere else. The only exception is if the system used to compare beforehand was badly designed and creating a restriction or so that exhaust pulses were causing too much reverse flow of gasses.

SamUK

iTrader: (1)

Just sent you a PM...

alwong

SAM_Uk i've Pm'd you back. Thanks for your advice.

GazTheHat

Reading with interest, but what the hell is pulse extraction? and how does it work/improve things?? (maybe nerdy, but i'm interested to know...)

alwong

This is the description given by TSL website..

'How does it work?
The exhaust valve opening produces a strong pulse (wave) that propagates through the exhaust system until it reaches the free (outside) air. Any change in the cross section of the exhaust pipe creates a wave with opposite characteristics – a positive (pressure) wave is reflected as a negative (suction) wave. It is this phenomenon that is utilised for the pulse tuning of exhaust (and intake) systems.
The design of the exhaust system is such that the exhaust wave is reflected in the first cone assembly to create a low pressure zone that eases the evacuation of the exhaust gas after the exhaust valve fully opens. The cone also creates a high pressure reflection that prevents fresh mixture from escaping during valve overlap. Length, cross section area and angles of all system components are selected such that the right wave reaches the exhaust port at the right time. The waves also help evacuate the turbine exit chamber the moment the waste gate opens.'

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Like you, I've worked with tuned pipes on 2-strokes, but on model aircraft. The principle is the same and with careful design a fairly wide band of increased power can be obtained. 4-strokes can benefit from tuned length exhaust systems, but for road cars this is very difficult unless you exit the pipe from the side of the car!
From what I've seen, the TSL "pulse" system is designed to be as straight as possible (less direction change losses and therefore also shorter) and is 3" as opposed to their standard system of 2.5" It also uses slip joints. I think you would need a downpipe that finishes at 3" to take advantage of it? Because it follows a straighter route, there could be ground clearance problems for some people? It's well made and I would consider it if I was looking to venture into the 360+ area.
JohnD

alwong

Thanks John for your comments. I think i'll go for the whole thing and see how it works out.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Just seen the above, which is the theory of "tuned" or "resonated" exhaust systems. One limitation as has been mentioned, is that such systems have, according to their design, a working rev. range. The reverse pressure pulse has a particular velocity irrespective of revs. so the length it has to travel back governs if it arrives at the exhaust valve at the right time.
JohnD

Gridlock Mikey

Is it not just the "latest" thing to have. Expensive and to the majority, unproveable.

Lets have a look at some of the past "Must have" items that swore improved performance/driveability/handling/etc but in reality were nothing more than a slight change to the vehicles characteristics at a disproportionately high cost.

Tek 1
Tek 2
Tek 2.5
All were must haves until people got wise top them and stopped paying extortionate amounts for ba5tardised off the shelf tuning maps. The Tek 3 (proper one) came along and now no-one knows what happened to the fore runners

Dawes MBC
Dawes Racing MBC

I have one of these, I actually rate them, £30 and a bit of common sense et voila, quicker car. These died a death due to Dealer/Garage horror stories about how scoobs can't deal with the increased boost pressure and the requirement for a "proper" re map. I have mine set at 16.5PSi and it's fine. Turn it upto 22 if you like but be careful. They don't tell you that at the garage, it's like them saying "Tell you what mate, don't spend £550 +, just use this £30 device sensibly and you'll get the same results" Obviously it doesn't happen.

Anti lift/roll/dive kits

I have driven cars with some and all of these things on them. You know where they make the biggest difference?............ On track and down the pub. That's it. On the road, driving normally or even spirited down a favourite B-road there is next to no percieveable difference. FACT!

OPen neck Down pipes

Do me a favour, an extra £50 for a bigger hole. Be as theoretical as you like but again, to the man on the street going to work in his scoob, it makes bugger all difference. If he rallies his scoob every weekend, then fair enough.

Knocklinks

The only thing I agree with PS Lewis about. £200 to make you feel better If you are tuning your car, I don't think that it's unreasonable to assume that you have a reasonable knowledge of how your car works. Surely you need this knowledge to decide what modifications to have! Now once you have that knowledge, you can see just how pointless a £200 electronic stethascope (sp?) really is. But an easy £200 for the scaremongers

Octane boost in a UK car

Once it was the big NONO to feed a UK with 95ron fuel and no octane boost. Why? Because it's a Japaneese engine and they all need OB. The advances in engine mapping soon dispelled that myth. Oh did I mention that the garages were doing a nice sideline in OB at the time

Toyo Proxes T1-S / Goodyear Eagle F1/ Pirrelli P-Zero

The must have tyres for the "real" enthusiast. I tried 'em all and do you know what?....... It cost me a ba5tard fortune. I was going through 2 tyres every 6000 miles or so and that was with "normal" tracking and normal driving. You see, they are very soft tyres designed probably for peoples weekend toys and track cars etc. They are not meant for everyday use or 1500 miles of motorway every month. Eventually (Because I couldn't afford £120 a tyre each time(Yes they were that much in those days)) I ended up trying some "Budget" tyres. I tip toed about, expecting the car to spin at a moments notice, and guess what, for normal everyday driving, not only are they more than adequate but last twice as long. Oh they only cost £65 a corner too

Things I do understand and can see the point of spending hard earned cash on:

Uprated Oil Pumps (Learn about the OE one and it's deficiencies are apparent)
Uprated Fuel Pumps (Physics, faster engines need more fuel. End of)
Uprated Intercoolers incl FMIC's (Heat is one of the engines worst enemies)
Uprated Suspension (If you do track work)
Decatting (Sound & mechanically sympathetic to the engine)
ECU Tuning (Setting safety parameters so you don't have to worry)
Temperature Gauges (If it's getting hot, summat is split, you need telling)
Better Brakes (It really is MORE fun when you know that you can stop!)


Now please bear in mind that I am aware of being in General and I've probably rubbed a few of you up the wrong way but after more than 5 years of scoob ownership and being lucky enough to drive many different variants and try many mods out before buying for myself, this is just my opinion. I'm sorry but an exhaust that is tuned to try and compensate for resonance in a bid to reduce the..............Oh c'mon, that's not why you bought your car is it? If the dealer or brochure had of mentioned a frequency problem in the exhaust, and that it made no difference to performance, you'd have still bought it. If folk out there have spent £1k on one of these exhausts then more fool them. The fact that if can be discounted by 80% also speaks volumes.

As I mentioned before, this is merely my 10 peneths worth

RLE

iTrader: (2)

Quality Mikey.

~DrEaM~

350bhp from standard turbo??