ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Mikey that is the most sensical post I have ever seen on SN.

Alot of points I agree on. The bottom line...DON'T LISTEN TO THE *****!

GazTheHat

Some post that Mikey. I had to check it wasn't PSLewis/Clone after a while. Good read.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Back to the original point: I'd want demonstrable proof of any benefits of the pulse extraction system over and above an otherwise equivalent system. It's too easy to just say "there is a benefit to x,y,z" even if the theory is sound as you're cueing people to notice things that might not be significantly different from a benchmark. It's not surprising that someone who has paid good money for a system will want to justify their purchase.

Ns04

Gridlock Mikey

That's my point NS 04, you won't ever get it (Demonstratable proof that is) because most "Peripheral" modifications generate such tiny benefits (or problems even) that you can't measure them on a road car, you need to ramp everything up to motorsport levels before the differences become tangible.
An exhaust which has been designed with 3 bends in it and is polished on the inside and computer bent and the tip rolled outwards etc etc etc may account for 3-5 BHP on its own. Stick a highly tuned rally engine on the end of it and it'll probably show gains of 30-40 BHP. Now THAT's noticeable.
Would you pay £1k for a 1% increase in BHP over standard. (Assuming 300bhp pre mod) Nope didn't think so.

It's the guys who pay that I feel for. I know I'd defend a spend of £1k and really get involved with that dude called Placebo (It cost a grand it MUST be faster )

I forgot to mention ITG filters in my list. Best thing since sliced bread apparently when they hit the scooby scene, 10-15bhp gains (yawn) See how quickly they got dropped when it was "Rumoured" to bugger up your MAF. What's the cool, must have panel filter now, Green something isn't it? Oh just happens to cost about £100 See me, Halfords special in mine £16.00. Still happy 18,000 miles down the proverbial twisties.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

You'd spend 1k AND **** Brian Moloko (Sp?) Blimey, when you have a night out, you really push the boundaries!!

Without you, he's nothing!!

Ns04

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

To be fair, many of the specialists/tuners I've spoken to are very up front about what you can and cannot expect and have been reluctant to try and pedal me anything on the basis that it'll "transform" the car. Several times I've had people say I wouldn't bother, even when they've had something to gain out of it. Maybe I've just been lucky enough to find the good uns.

Ns04

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

As the thread is about a TSL product, from personal experience I would include TSL in the above. In conversation with Graham he recommended just a re-map and retain the Prodrive exhaust. He could have (tried to at least!) convinced me that his system was so much better but he never even tried. That's good honest service in my book.
My previous input to this thread was based on the technical aspects and theory which I find enjoyable, some may find it a bit "geeky" but surely infinately better than a lot of the complete drivel all to common on this forum?
JohnD

alwong

wow loads of input. All good useful stuff to hear though.

Firstly, the reason why the pulse extraction system is 80% cheaper is because alot of loads parts were being charged with the TSL upgrade. Basically they wouldn't give you 2 exhausts, 2 centre section etc.

This pulse extraction thing was only supposed to give you 10-15bhp. No-one said loads!!

I just wanted to know cos he advised me of it. I'm going to test drive their demo car which has the tsl333 with the pulse thingy on it. I'll let you know what I think of it.

Obviously I can only base it on what I've driven b4. STIPPP and now WRXPPP

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Can I just clarify. I certainly didn't mean to imply that TSL shouldn't be considered completely up front and honest!! I was just saying that with ANYTHING from ANY supplier you should ask yourself if the benefits warrant the costs.

Ns04

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

No prob. I didn't take anything said as being against TSL and I aggree with what you've just said. The cost/benefits ratio is so subjective! The re-map at 700 odd quid - Mmmm The car is better, sure, but worth all that cash? Maybe it's that indefinable pleasure you get from knowing it's that bit better, like wearing a TAG when a Timex will do!
JohnD

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

TBF The gains from a remap are usually quantitifiable and can be substantiated objectively by virtue of a before and after RR print out (at an independent place if you're really suspicious ). Value for money is always subject to debate, but if I handed over £700 and got back a car with a safe 20% gain in power/torque, I'd personally consider that money well spent. Of course, there is more to a remap than power gains (some of which is also quantifiable).

We shouldn't discount subjective experience in a blanket fashion; some mods will generate more noticable gains than others and remaps, done properly, should result in a significant improvements in power and torque at the very least. In fact, one might argue that if you need a RR printout to tell the difference, the map probably wasn't worth the money!

However, in contrast, one might be more sceptical of subjective experiences that indicate that a filter or a backbox has generated significant gains. This is probably post hoc rationalisation i.e. I paid more for it, it must be better!

Ns04

sadam

Re the TSL pulse extraction exhaust - here are some figures from the Scooby Clinic dyno

Model - 03 Spec C
Mods - ECU Tek remap (By Richard Bulmer through TSL), STi panel filter, TSL pulse extraction exhaust with hi flow cat.
BHP - 326 BHP
Torque - 345ft/lb at 3500 rpm

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

Max. BHP is nothing to write home about (or brag about down the pub?) but the torque looks good, especially at those low revs. I would like to see the curves as, if that exhaust is doing a good job, I suspect there could be some good gains elsewhere, where they really matter?
JohnD