Hotpants

Just seeking a bit of advice really , looking to get back into the Subaru fold & during my 6 years of classic ownership I always pined over the P1 , but the prices were always so high. But now there seem to be some tempting P1's coming up for sale , but I've mentioned this to 3 peeps now & each of them have said ' Watch out a fair few seem to be blowing engines up' Is this true , or is it a case of ' A couple have , so they are all about to!
Cheers guys and gals.

Daniel-S

http://p1woc.co.uk/postnuke/index.ph...291&highlight=

http://p1woc.co.uk/postnuke/index.ph...276&highlight=

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Get over to http://P1woc.co.uk

Lots of info there.

In short: yes there is an issue with the P1 and rebuilds, but if you know what to look for, it shouldn't put you off.

Ns04

Hotpants

Thanks for the links guys , I'll have a swot up before taking any leaps into the unknown.
I do love them though & that's the trouble , you tend to ignore things you possibly shouldn't , I did that once with an Integrale !!!!

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

I heard some time ago (rumour mill only) that the P1's engine was based on the JDM STi Ver V's engine ie this was the starting point? "Some" JDM engines have also been know to "blow". Is this just coincedence (sp?)?

TX.

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

loads of info on this is you search for it. Saying that you cant search for P1

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The P1 engine and ECU is a JDM STi engine. There were some reports that the ECU was modified to make the knock correction slightly more sensitive - but unconfirmed.

So like any STi from that period - run it on non-SUL and POP!

Even better run it on SUL and Octane booster.

P1 NUT

iTrader: (1)

These cars suffer from bad maf sensor which is a comman cause of failure along with holding the car at high speed for long period of time as the air flows over the i.c. scoop and not in to it causing an increase of intake temps causing det, using wrong fuel ie 95 instead of sul as the p1 runs a sti ver 5 map and wasn't properly adjusted to run uk fuel on its release. Best bet i would say is to get one from p1woc as they are all enthusiasts on that site or low mileage one from dealer with warranty incase the worst should happen. I have had mine for 2 years now with no probs so long as its heated up/cooled down properly and regularly maintained you should have no probs.

SamUK

iTrader: (1)

Funny..when i was deciding between a P1 and the STI 8, P1woc memebers said there i no known issue with engine rebuilds. However from research allot of cars have had them done, maybe due to the type of driving or the fact the cars are not looked after and absued....I also noticed these cars are not selling for the asking prices, and people would not pay £15K for an old car, unless they had money falling out of there pockets...I noticed near 6 P1's over 2 months sell for in the region of £10K and £12500 on Ebay...

Question was would you pay £15K for a old P1 or on something allot newer?

Anyway i did not want to risk it so bought the STI 8 for a bargin price...and i LOVE it.....

Del mar

Upon speaking to Alyn at ASP "Stockcar", he mentioned that if you were to buy a P1 or 2 door import it would be worth while putting aside enough money for a remap first, just to try and prevent problems !

Del

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

LOL I guess it all depends on what you mean by an issue.

If it's: Are there numerous instances of them suffering from premature engine failure before or around the 60k mark, then the answer is yes.

If it's: Are they basically an Sti V running an Sti V map, with little in the way of changes for UK fuel then the answer would appear to be yes.

If it's: are there other issues generic to the MY generally e.g. Maf failure that might contribute to engine failures then the answer is also yes!

If it's: Are there issues associated with the owners i.e. care and maintenence that might contribute to engine failures then the answer is, yet again, yes.

How many are due to the first two reasons and how many are down to the second two is probably less well known.

I suspect you hit the mail on the head in saying that does someone want to spend 15k on a 6 year old car when the same money could buy them something newer and also negate any issues with the car.

Personally, much as I like them, I'd only buy one that had been properly mapped for UK fuel and had a KL installed to monitor any det. I wouldnt spend 15k on one; I'd simply buy something newer.

Ns04

SamUK

iTrader: (1)

i was under the impression the P1's were only made for the UK market? well atleast that is what i was told...

RB5_245

P1's seem to be suffering from bottom end failures which isn't so much det related.

Given the number of impreza engines that last well, well in excess of the P1's output would lead me to suggest that the main cause of engine failure would be mistreatment.

Taking it is a standard car and driving it as such. infrequent oil changes, not warming and cooling properly etc.

I would have one in place of an sti8 anyday.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Why?

SamUK

iTrader: (1)

Thats allot of mistreated P1's out there then....are you implying that P1's are bought to be absued and most are not cared for like other cars such as the STI 8... ...Afew P1's i have seen with full Subaru history, yet the engine has still been replaced...

Too many P1's have gone wrong, for that to be the case i think...but thats just my thought...

I bought my STI based on the fact that it was very low mileage, allot newer and the best thing was that it was allot cheaper...and its quick, smooth and no rattles..however no offence to the P1 owners on the site as yes i do think the P1's are a lovely car..just not for me...

ScoobyDoo555

Your other option is of course, an STI Type R.......

Cheaper alternative...


Dan

bob r

iTrader: (46)

i wanted a p1 prior to owning my sti8. a very good friend was selling his with 27k on the clock, serviced as recommended and treated with great care. listening to all the p1 hype i was reluctant to buy his car although it was probably one of the best around. i took a large gulp, blagged the wife and told my mate i would have it when i sold my car (wrx). over the next few months of trying to sell my car i went through a rollercoaster of phases, excitement one moment followed by regret and reluctance the next, constantly questioning my decision to buy into a great but uncertain car.
i couldnt sell my car in time and he sold it to someone else. in one way i was sad but on the other hand relieved as i would never have been able to afford an engine rebuild. if you have the finances to support owning a p1 then buy one, awesome cars, so quick its scary and a legend with very individual looks. otherwise play safe as i did. get a newage sti i have no regrets but keep wondering.................... and probably always will.

Fat Boy

P1's run on a basic JDM sti map with some limited additional knock correction built in - this plus the brocquets in the fuel tank are supposed to enable the car to run even on 95.

(MAFs on MY 99 cars are notoriously weak too but for the purpose of this explanation i'm ignoring that fact)

HOWEVER, even in standard form you would be daft to run on NUL as all the JDM stis are designed to live on a diet of 100 octane in Japan, so in reality it is pushing your luck to run more than occasionally on 95 despite the protection added by prodrive ( having said that if you drive gently and never thrash it then 95 is fine - but how many p1 owners will have bought their car to drive it gently?).

Therefore, in standard form, run it at least on SUL and warm up /cool down properly and it should be fine.

In modified form e.g. decatted and / or induction side improved:
You are taking an engine that is already running pretty lean, and on lower octane fuel than it was designed for, closer to the edge. This is particularly true in two areas of the rev range where the cover provided by general over fuelling is thin in standard form and will effectively disappear if you improve the volumetric efficiency of the engine by increasing the breathing with the mods. The P1/ classic jdm STI V ecu does have some limited knock correction ability, but it is limited ( as opposed to what some ill informed monkeys on here will tell you), so basically it will try to cover the lean spots by increasing fuelling at those points, but will be unable to do it completely, hence det leading to premature engine failure.

By getting it remapped the fuel map is effectively changed to add in extra fuel to cover in the lean parts and anywhere else where the respectable mapper can see that the engine is running leanly.

Once that's done, the engine should be no more at risk than any other standard UK MY99 model, with the further proviso that there are poor batches of fuel - even Shell admits that Optimax "weathers" over time i.e. the octane content can drop - that can lead to the engine not receiving the full benefit of knock retardant that high octane brings.This is where the knock link can come in as it gives you a visual sign that the engine is running differently to normal e.g if you've filled up with a bad batch of fuel and get the big red light you will know to back off and drive gently until you can put some better fuel or more octane booster in.

In my experience, in a P1 that was decatted and remapped over 25000 miles ago, the knock link is vital as you will not necessarily feel or hear any det, but you don't miss the lights...

I would lay good money on there being an extremely high correlation between those P1 ( and JDM sti) engines that have grenaded and the fact that the owners have decatted/ changed induction without remapping.

The newer STi ecus do not have the same limitations as the older ones in terms of knock corrections/ fuel maps.

So , basically get a standard one that has never been modded and run on SUL or a modded/ remapped by a reputable mapper always run on SUL / booster, fit a knocklink and change the MAF (£75) once a year and your car should be absolutely fine.

HTH

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

It's a point. But I always wonder, after experiencing many scooby driver's attitude towards their car being along the lines of:

"I drive like it was intended and designed to do"

Translated: "They thrash the nuts off it" on a regular basis.

Of course they cry when their engine fails, and they seem confused at why it did fail, completely ignorant to the point that their driving style played a part in its demise. The old rule always applies...Engine lifespan is directly proportional to the load placed upon it (ignoring maintanence, fueling/ignition and component faults, just for arguments sake ).

Subarus engines are prone to failure if abused. Full stop. The same engine producing more power is equally, if not more prone (wear vs. load) to this.

Add to the mix the issues mentioned above with the p1 and other Imprezas of the same model years concerning fueling/ignition mapping, fuel grades, component failure (MAF), and the "enthusiatic" driver the marque attracts. It's a reciepe for flying conrods and holy pistons. The p1 is of no exception to this.

p1mark

Great post Ali-B

Below is a the current results of the poll running on P1woc that Daniel-S linked to earlier. Its hardly conclusive as there is only 85 voters, and i know of people on the site who have and have not had a blow up but have not voted.

I started this cos i was a bit fed up of some of the crap talked on here. "look in the autotrader, they have all had a rebuild" and "XXX specialist says dont get one as it will blow up"

These are stats - so they cant be argued with.

OK, it does not make great reading. at present 1 in 3 have expired. The miles in the poll option is when they actually expired.

But if you look closer, there is a very good argument for having the car mapped. There is a lot more standard cars running around than modified ones, but by far the worst category for blowing up is the standard cars in the 30-50K bracket (9 peeps). conversely only 1 person in the same mileage bracket with a modified car (i.e decated and most likely mapped) has had a failure.

Go figure!

A. original engine, standard 42% [36]
B. original engine, modified 24% [21]
C. new or rebuilt engine, <30K miles, standard 3% [3]
D. new or rebuilt engine, <30K miles, modified 0% [0]
E. new or rebuilt engine, 30-50K miles, standard 10% [9]
F. new or rebuilt engine, 30-50K miles, modified 1% [1]
G. new or rebuilt engine, 50-70K miles, standard 5% [5]
H. new or rebuilt engine, 50-70K miles, modified 4% [4]
I. new or rebuilt engine, +70K miles, standard 3% [3]
J. new or rebuilt engine, +70K miles, modified 3% [3]

Total Votes : 85


Im sure if all the guys with type R's did the same, the results would be similiar!

Hepy

Ahh, another day another P1 thread.
Yawn

Scrappy9

Ahh, another day another P1 thread.
Yawn


Quite right, we dont want any reference to Subaru's on this site.

SirFozzalot

Don't read it then

pwhittle

rather implied by the thread title...

Hotpants

Sorry if I've started another 'Yawn another P1 Thread' I don't get on here all that often & as a result don't have a detailed knowledge of Scoobynet history ! Just seeking a bit of expert opinion really before I possibly part with some cash! Thought that's what this forum was all about. So far the info has been typically interesting & informative , cheers all.

bighead

iTrader: (1)

P1 engines are no diffrerent from any other cars .....they need to be maintained according to the service book ( modiflied or not )
my P1 has been running at 360plus Bhp for 3 years now (never missed a beat ), if the mod are done correctly , you should not worry about the engine blowing up !
Now regarding paying £15 k PLUS FOR A p1.......WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT !
escort cossie and Intergrale's sell for around that now !!( I know which car I would buy )
A 1988 911 carrera sell for £15 K plus and they are 18 year old cars for christ sake !
Ferrari 308 are selling for at least £28K plus !
I know if I ever sell my car it wont be less than £15K lol
ps a car is worth what some one will pay for it by the way

I remembered in 1992 I sold my Porsche 944 turbo for £9K and guess what..... to buy a good one today will cost you £10K ......go figure it out guys !
P1s are a limited model so will hold it value well , may even increase as time goes buy .

just my 2 pences worth (flame suit on )

Trap2Terrorist

iTrader: (3)

I'm a newage owner but am a big fan of the 2 door classics.

Reading through posts about P1's on SN, talking to people I know who own them, plus cars that have been advertised for sale on SN, Autotrader, etc. there seems to be a common trend of them having rebuilds around the 45k mile mark. Surely they can't all belong to abusive owners

As a result of the 'bad press', I wouldn't buy a P1 myself if I was worried about the cost of a rebuild, (which I am).

Personally I'd go for a Type R instead.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Its not abusive owners but several factors which cause these engines to blow up
First of all is the fact that its an STi 5 map so basically designed to run 100 ron fuel.
Secondly there is a lean spot in said map which doesnt help.
Thirdly, the broquets which are in the fuel tank are an enhancer to boost the fuel up to a higher octance rating, these seem to be a bit random when they give out and the octane rating drops without the owner knowing
The engines themselves are very strong, nothing wrong with them, its just the culmination(sp) of several other factors which cause the problem, and in some cases, its actually safer to buy a JDM car over a P1 due to the fact that "most" owners will run them on super and octane booster and add a knocklink or other visable knock detector.

Tony

scooby-k

had my P1 for 3 years cost me less than a new sti8 (which I originally went to buy) and have no regrets. the crank is supposed to be weaker, like any classic, compared to sti 7/8 s but I am convinced the weakest point on a P1 is the original map and once remapped by someone who knows their stuff will be fine. (touch wood). I bought my P1 cos I liked the looks otherwise I would have bought new age. still think it looks better than 07 models
ken

Fat Boy

Same engine, same ecu except with even less knock protection so don't understand your point really....