Martin Stirling

Further to my point on the BMW thread about image determining car ownership, I thought it would be interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject. As I said, I think a great many BMW buyers base their buying decisions purely on image, with everything else going out of the window.

Jaydee mentioned that he liked the Impreza for its image as well as its performance? If you like a car, do you really care about what people think of it?

I certainly didn't base the purchase of my car (Evo 6) on image, in fact to most people it's just a Mitsubishi Carisma with a naff bodykit on and noisy exhaust..

Any thoughts?

MS.

JoeyDeacon

Martin,

I think the perceived image of a car plays a large part in the sort of people it appeals to. Take the whole Skoda/Seat/VW/Audi thing, essentially the same cars but would the person buying the Audi A3 even consider buying the Skoda Fabia (At least thats the Skoda I think shares the same platform)??

When it comes to company cars I have heard of people choosing a BMW 316 Compact with no options because it is the only BMW in their price range and when it comes to company cars badge is all important!

At my girlfriends company they were given the choice of either a BMW 318, Rover 75 or a Mercedes (Not sure which one but it was in the same price range). Surprise, Surprise that most of the men went for the BMW.

Anybody read the article Alexi Sayle wrote when he was lent a P1 for the weekend?? Basically he didn't get the point of it and said it was for people who want a no image motor that only gets attention from other subaru owners, and that they believe they are the sort of driver who needs all that 4WD technology.

salsa-king

well my girlfriend seems to think that i
"show off - pose - like everyone looking at me driving through town - tease other cars at lights etc etc etc
but if anything i don't
i bought the car B4 i really knew much about the "seen" that the Impreza has with it, did't even know that WRX's etc were imports till i had my turbo! DOH........

but i bought it cus i liked the look of the car, performance was there!!! which is very very nice but you buy a car because it's what appeals to you when you see it drive about (ie other cars of the same model) thats why i went for mine,
just like the look of it on the road.
even when i see my father driving my car about and i'm in the van (works vehicle, Seat Inca) first thought that passes though my mind is that looks good! then i twig its my car!!!!!!!!!! LOL

all down to what you like!

[This message has been edited by salsa-king (edited 18 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by salsa-king (edited 18 October 2000).]

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

The Skoda Favia floor plan is the one that will be used on the next generation Polo, rather than the one used on the current A3, etc. (Sorry useless info, etc)

I for one don't care about a cars image, I mean my last car was a Citroen, it just comes down to whether or not the car does what I want it to do. If Skoda released a 4wd Fabia which was quicker and handled better than an Impreza Turbo for less cash I would have one in a shot. I'm don't think I have ever seen an Impreza Turbo on a Skoda forecourt before, could make a first.

Hunk

You seem to forget that BMW builds very good cars and bikes. Even a 316 is a fine automobile. Nice handling, safe, practical and you get a lot of that cash back when you trade it in.

Squizz

I like the reverse of badge-snobbery. I used to surprise folk by the turn of speed in my Skoda Rapide, and a fair few hot hatches were surprised by my TR7V8 (as were some bikes - lotsa double takes and looks in the mirrors).

So next car...?

I fancy a battleship grey Skoda Rapide, with a scoob-turbo motor in the back and some trick suspension and brakes.
-Ooh...And some airbrushed on fake rust around the sills and arches. Nice.

Martin Stirling

Hunk,

I am in no way doubting that the BMW is a well engineered car, and if it was for this reason that people bought them, then I wouldn't have a problem. The truth is though that a good majority of people buy the car for the badge and what it represents (status, affluence etc) and nothing else. That's my point, I think it's very sad..

MS.

LanCat

Spot on Martin.

On the flipside are those of use who definately won't buy the damn things because of the badge.

Geezer

Martin,
Are you honestly trying to tell me you would have bought a Skoda instead of the Impreza if it had the same performance for less price? I think not.

Everybody is aware of the fact that what they drive puts out certain signals about who they are. It's human nature. I appreciate what you mean about BMW onwership, but it doesn't apply to all of them, just like there are plenty of w@nkers driving Imprezas.

I have had a BMW, and although I did not get it because it BMW (it was because it the only rear drive car for the price!), I was mightily impressed with it. It took a lot of punishment, but still felt as new as the day I picked it up when I gave it back. My Impreza doesn't feel like that now, and I only got it in the summer!

Geezer

NickF

LanCat,

Spot on.

As for whether I buy on image - my bike (the only discretionary-purchase vehicle I own) is a bitsa (all Honda bits, just from different bikes!), looks like a shed, just goes extremely fast round corners. I'm kind of an anti-image guy, and actually prefer a dirty car/bike to clean one. Not filthy, you understand, just enough to make it look well-used rather than pampered.

Nick

Martin Stirling

Geezer,

I'm afarid I have to disagree with you here. If Skoda introduced a Scooby beating car for less, then I would indeed buy one. Is this not how Subaru started? It's not that many years ago that Subaru were just cheap Jap cars for country folk, only during the later part of the past decade have people realised just how much fun a farmers car can be ;-)

At the end of the day, I've just bought a Mitsubishi and that's not exactly a brand for the image conscious now is it?

MS.

Moss

I did worry, but now I don't! I think I got to about 21 and then I decided being anonymous was the key to enjoying yourself on the road at 'high' speeds.

Martin Stirling

Hunk,

I am in no way doubting that the BMW is a well engineered car, and if it was for this reason that people bought them, then I wouldn't have a problem. The truth is though that a good majority of people buy the car for the badge and what it represents (status, affluence etc) and nothing else. That's my point, I think it's very sad..

MS.

LanCat

It looks like there's a market for skoda rapide bodies on scoob underpinnings.

I do recall driving an Austin A30 with lots of hot spridget bits on it and having a hoot. Ok it was a long time ago and I'm probably suffering from selective memory but it did make for some fun at the traffic light grand prix

Sheep in wolves clothing is my style every time.

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

Marty baby....when your that ugly....you need all the help you can get.......oh...has it got privacy glass !!

Martin Stirling

Yella,

when you getting your new car? Be very interested to see it. I'm quite warming to the new shape..

As you've gathered I finally parted with the Supra, bloody hard work though!

MS.

Cheeky Jim

Martin,

I think you have potentially touched a nerve, given that there are some Beemer drivers who post ont here. You could be insinuating that they only buy one for looks alone.

I would also argue, if it was your own cash that you were parting with then it could be a different story altogether.. Within a company car environment it is often a one upmanship on your colleagues, who may a Vectra/mondeo etc and not about the car you might want to buy.

On a company scheme you may have a limited choice and also as you are not paying for it you can drive it like a loon and get away with replacing the tyres every 2 months! Yet again, the company want a car that is reliable and has a resale value.

I think there are many reasons for getting one car over another, and this could go on forever!

Having said all that, I knew a bloke at my last place who had ordered a new VW Golf Turbo...I got the co car list about 3 weeks after he had ordered and found that I could afford a new 323i Coupe...he found out and cancelled his order and put in for a 323i Coupe also, simply because 'it was better than a Golf' and it was a BMW.

In the end I ordered a Lexus IS200 sport, not because it was a Lexus, but because it had a Top notch equipment level, and I felt it was more individual than yet another BMW on the road. Does that make me a 'Badge Buyer'?

I could also have had a Mondeo ST24 or GSI Vectra or Golf GTI Turbo or Nissan 200SX - all completely different cars.. but the Lexus won cause it was the nicest all round!

Phew, After all that what have I achieved eH??

Tricky subject this one!!

Jamie

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

Good man,
Hope your enjoying your new toy...as for mine, I've been told mid January, which is fine by me as I'm on an iminent driving ban, I'm out of the country in a month for a while and plus it will be registered 2001....you wanna see it though...WOW !!!!

Martin Stirling

Jamie,

the fact that you chose your Lexus based on equipment choice and individuality means that you're not a 'badge man'. I appreciate that not all BMW owners are pretentious and have already conceded that Beemers are excellent cars, however that's not why many people buy them. VW's or Audi's are equally good motors, yet given the choice, many people would still prefer the 'Badge' on their bonnet.

It amuses me that the common perceived image of a BMW is actually quite the opposite to how they actually appear. If I see a guy in a BMW I just think to myself; 'you could be driving something a lot better for the price you paid for that'.

MS.

Nightmare

I'd be lying if I said it didnt make a difference....as Lancat said - most of us wont buy BMWs cause of the perception from other like minded driving enthusiasts that you're basically a tw*t if you have one! Therefore we are influenced, even negatively by the badge.

Who thinks that it will play no part at all for those making the decision between a VX220 and an elise?

If Im being totally honest (which is rare), had the Lambo actually been a Fiat, looked lke a Tipo and happened to have the same performance, noise, up-opening doors etc would I have bought one? doubt it somehow....guess that makes me very sad

Airmiles

Maybe I live in the "Land that Market Research Forgot" or something..but I chose the Scoob over the TT or S3 (despite the fact that Audi's much more "my image", and concerns about being viewed as a boy racer) because:

5 doors
Crappy interior less likely to be affected by a life lugging mountainbikes, climbing gear, etc. around


..oh - and it felt better to drive, and there was some bunch of on-line maniacs who seemed enthusiastic.....

Geezer

Martin,
Maybe you are one of the few who would buy the Skoda, but most people wouldn't.

It's not about whether you can get a better car for the money, it's about what you want. If you want a BMW (or any other make), then no other car will be good enough in your eyes.

Geezer

Cheeky Jim

As I said b4, this is a tricky one, and I won't say that people are not influenced by badfes, because clearly they are!! Even if it is subconciously.

So how many people here bought a Scoob because of it's brand?? I expect quite a few because brand was what was enhanceced by Colin McCrae and others when giving it some welly and winning world rally championships.

This coupled with the fact, that :

1) It isn't too ugly!!
2) Goes like Sh*te of a stick
3) Was the first really affordable 'Supercar'
4) Was practical. i.e had boot and 4 doors!

All combined to influence in a postive manner!

There we go! Simple init!!

Look at what VAG are doing with the SEAT brand. They are slowly positioning it as the 'Sports' brand of the stable, with the Cordoba WRC and other hot releases like the Cupra Sport models. It is about marketing and differentiation, just that BMW have built a brand around longevity and well made driving/luxury machines. They have also, like the rest of the world had to sell more and more machines to remain in business, thus losing their so called 'more expensive' niche, and having to mass market. Once that happens, every Tom, Dick and Harry gets hold of one, and then automatically asumes they have climbed into the 'expensive' niche and act accordingly!

How does that sound???? On second thoughts answers on a postage stamp only!!

Jamie

p.s. Not having a dig at anyone!

GCollier

Martin,

I was simply referring to your continued insistance that BMW drivers must be very sad, because they bought the car for the badge and that they don't realise that they "could get a much better car for the money".

Not everyone has the same priorities when it comes to cars or life in general. Indeed some people might regard subaru/evo drivers as very "sad" because they've bought a car with ridiculously high running costs, a constant theft/vandal target, absolutely zero class and style, tinny build quality etc. Sitting in a lump of metal whizzing around country regards could also be regarded as pretty sad when it comes down to it.

Very few (if any) people truly don't care what image they portray and what others think of them. It's impossible to get anywhere in todays society with that attitude. Even those that say they do are probably just trying to project a "Mr independent, I'm my own man" style image to others.

And, no I don't drive a BMW, and probably never will...

Gary.

GP

just an *observation* about this 'reverse-badgeism' effect - imho, a lot of people who subscribe to this idea of 'I didn't buy it purely because it's a BMW (or whatever), and have something better/more individual/less stereotypical etc. - for the same/less money' - still stray fairly close to sounding like they actually feel superior in some way purely because of that - just the same way as the alledged majority of beemer pilots, who are looking straight back down their noses at you - for the opposite reasons, which you 'rebelled' against.

ironic, no ?

and I haven't got a BMW, before anyone asks - daily car is a boring Vectra, which no way falls into either of the above two categories described - though it does allow me somewhat to have a laugh at all the people that do seem caught up in the car image game..

A perfect example of what I mean are the VW golf ads, or the Audi ones, to a lesser extent. These are truly masterstrokes of advertising - aimed precisely and brilliantly at the so call 'non-badge' buyer, and carefuly crafted to appeal directly to their sense of non-conformity to what they perceive as the badge-buying oneupmanship set. However, the twist is that this, in itself, far from conveying a sense of non-achievment, becomes a kind of superiority complex all by itself.. subtley and superbly done - and most of the 'non-conformists' sucked into this ideal don't even realise the hypocrisy of their own viewpoint.

GCollier

GP >>> Spot on with your observations!

Martin Stirling >>> Your view is just as blinkered in its own way, as that you are accusing most BMW drivers of.

Gary.

Martin Stirling

Gary,

I'm interested in your comments. "Your view is just as blinkered.." Does this mean that you don't think that many people buy BMW's 'cause of the the image? At least where I live, people are very materialistic and image conscious and the BMW badge is nearly a household necessity. If this is not the case in your experience, then you are very lucky..

Please realise I am not saying that all BM drivers are like this.

Cheers,

MS.

Markus

Did I buy my scooby because of it's image?

Probably. I bought it cos I wanted a scooby, mainly as they are quick and great value for money. Guess it was also to brag 'I've got a scooby turbo, na, na, na!!'

My previous car was a Mondy ST24, now that was not really an image purchase, it was a pure, this is a nice 4 door with decent(ish) performance (ok, I *could*, and *should* have got a used scooby, but hey, I've learnt my lesson big time). Can't really say I bought on image. the mondy was and excellent car, only changed it as I wanted a scoob, and If I was getting a scoob SQ would have her puppy, hence needing a five door.

Most people do see my car as a 'kevin's' car, mainly due to it being lowered, blacked out windows and channel tunnel reject excuse for an exhaust.



[This message has been edited by Markus (edited 19 October 2000).]

RB170

I bought the scoob because there was nothing to match it in performance, price, usability and reliability. This all seems to add up to a good enough reason to buy a car but would I have bought it if the badge on the front said RELIANT or YUGO and they hadn't won any RWC's??????? I really don't know.

I think we are all swayed by image whether we like to admit it or not.

Mike

Bajie

When I was 18 I was taken out in a Saab 900 Turbo.
At 24 I was able to insure one.
Had a GSi 20004x4 and then a Saab 90016S.
Then I bought my dream car, Merc CE with all the trimmings.
An unfortunate incident resulting in a Golf GTi Convertible ploughing into the rear of the car ended that particular episode.
Decided to get an M3 so I could outrun hooligans but they would'nt let me test drive one!
Friend of mine wanted an Elise so I went to Bell & Colville with him.
Test drove the most beautiful [in the eye of the beholder] car I had ever seen. Bought it.
I guess I am influenced by branding at the end of the day, but if the car makes you twitch, and you just have to have it its game over.
And the new M3 is drop dead gorgeous.
Wonder if the dealers attitudes have changed.