Trout

iTrader: (1)

On the front page of the Guardian it says there are proposals going to Parliament today to increase the use of cameras to track road traffic users.

The rationale includes

"The majority of people will welcome a small decrease in liberty if it means catching more criminals" - Oh, really?!

"We will target drivers not using a seat belt or using mobile phones" - but what about the Chavs driving hideously modified Novas and Scoobs along the hard shoulder at 93mph?

"Events like 7/7 could have been prevented - the culprits used a car to get to the station" - what utter rubbish!

"The £53m robbers would be in jail now" - more rubbish.

Indeed I am surprised that the traffic bods are not claiming insight to the Virgin Birth, the second coming of Christ, the downfall of Mick McCarthy and the dead cert for the new manager at the Toon. Traffic cameras really are the Snake Oil of the noughties.

alloy

To achieve all these goals though they need not put more speed cameras about, but just normal close circuit camers and fix their view on a lane to film all the traffic and then employ someone to watch TV all day picking "criminals" out instead of being on the beat serving the community

I don't understand how the policy on speed cameras changes every time the wind switchs direction . Do women decide these things?

The Zohan

Perhaps Cherie (the swampdonkey) Blair

richs2891

Err would it not be easier to employ some people with proper training to drive marked cars on roads and educate / penalise as appopiate people that break laws on the road.
Oh hang on we already have that - its called the police force !
Why not use them instead !
Lets get rid of this stupid idea that can police the roads by us of static cameras ! How can a static camera educate someone on the importance of indicating at roundabaouts, correct lane disapline, not wearing seatbelts etc ?

Richard

GC8

It's quite frightening isn't it? I don't know what frightens me more; the ceaseless chipping away at our liberty, or the apathy of the public.....


Simon

[Davey]

If the sole use of these cameras was to help prevent crimes then I wouldnt be bothered in the slightest *BUT* we all know they will lead to other things like real time road charging etc.

mart360

http://cars.msn.co.uk/carnews/speedcameras7mar06/

and a blatent "it will raise revenue"

another 2 fingers from the party who are meant to be whiter than white!!!

its just another step toward total control, how long before the microchip inserted at birth, (biometrics etc) to eliminte fraud , no need for passports etc!!!

what about a temporary measure, a number tatooed on the wrist, or a barcode.

Whenever i see Billy, and see where his visions are going, i always recall the film the deadzone!!!

when will the sane among us wake up and smell the roses


Mart

GC8

That's my point exactly Davey; because you should be worried. The possible benefit is not worth; and can not be used to justify, the erosion of our personal liberties.....


Citizen Simon

JTaylor

What a terrific idea! In fact, surely the way forward is to have blanket surveillance covering the movements of the entire nation and like you say, employ people to watch out for criminals all day. Obviously if you've got nothing to hide, you've nothing to worry about.

It's the terrorists you see. Perhaps we should have a minutes hate. No, make that two!

highlander68k

"The majority of people will welcome a small decrease in liberty if it means catching more criminals" - If the cameras are used to trace the criminals after they've robbed/raped/killed/assualted/etc - then great.

"We will target drivers not using a seat belt or using mobile phones" - If the driver of the car doesn't wear a seatbelt or insist their passenger does, then who gives a hoot if they don't - it won't be us getting hurt or killed in an accident, it will be them! (mobile phones I agree on - how much does a hand's free kit cost?)

"Events like 7/7 could have been prevented" - what stupidity to claim such a thing - the police would be too busy arresting those not wearing seatbelts!

"The £53m robbers would be in jail now" - it would have made life more difficult for them.

I've never had anything against CCTV-type cameras. The only problem with them is that they tend to drive crime to places that don't have them. If they covered a broader area then that would definitely help.

Motorists are an easy target, usually identifiable by their number plate. Excluding the accidents that may be caused by people using the mobile phone on the move, how many widespread criminal issues does the idea cover? Not enough, and not the right ones IMO.

JTaylor

Blanket coverage, that's what we need


Definately. We need a way of identifying and monitoring everyone in case they break the law.

highlander68k

I propose cameras be installed in every household!

JTaylor

No way Highlander, that would mean living in a totalitarian state . We're a democracy . The terrorists and the countries they live in aren't democratic you know .

hades

That's completely unfair. I know several swampdonkeys that are only moderately repulsive, certainly not in Cherie's league

Any truth to the rumour that the new ID card system will be "improved" - whereby everyone will have the chip inserted in their left index finger. This allows tracking of people's movements so that the forthcoming "pay per use" pavement charges can be implemented.

Give a few more months, and we won't even be allowed to type on bulle [THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN CENSORED BY NEW LABIA]

Vegescoob

Frighten and control the majority.
They easily capitulate.
'Twas always the totalitarian way.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I seem to remember another leader who tatooed a number on peoples arms to control them

The approach that states that an academician who is not democratically elected and so has NO mandate can make a statement that the majoroity will welcome a reduction in civil liberty to be able to watch the whole nation get cameraed up in simply not acceptable.

The additional argument has also been presented as part of these proposals is that someone who breaks the law a bit is likely to break the law in other areas.

So you heard it here first folks - if you use a mobile in your car or don't fasten your seatbelt then prepared to be one of the Guilford Four, the Guantanamo 537, a 7/7 bomber, Gary Glitter's agent and a trader on behalf of Nick Leeson enterprises.

This is quite scary.

reano

iTrader: (2)

It is scary but inevitable ..... Behind nearly all of these iniatives is money. It's not to stop criminals but to ensure more people pay (even more). Scare people into thinking it's something else then get what you want in the first place. And all these extra camera's who's going to pay for them?

So many biblical quotes, I'll add mine "The love of money ......" Wasn't speed cameras meant to stop accidents, congestion charges, toll roads, etc. The 'main' reason is collection of more money....

Ritch96

Hermann Goering:
Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.



Slightly different context I suppose but equally true. Really rather frightening.

Ritchie.

andyfish

It is terrifying, not frightening.

The chipping away at our liberty is expected, especially under an elected dictatorship. But the apathy of me, you and the rest of the public is inexcusable. Will ANY of you put pen to paper and write to you MP? That is what the Govt relies on - the apathy - to do just what they like.

andy

JTaylor

I've been proactive in raising these issues with my mates, work colleagues, car club buddies, GFs, family, students et al since I became politically aware. What a bore eh? I now only get involved on here. Why? Because I became warn down by either peoples failure to see the writting on the wall or, worse, the selfish disregard for future generations.

Such is the power of the establishment's machine even I have now submitted to apathy. It's so tiring fighting a losing battle and seems entirely futile.

Don't worry, I always get the blues this time of year

Brit_in_Japan

Remeber JT...

JTaylor

Cheers BIJ,

Just been to see Syriana, now feeling even worse.

<toodles off to kitchen to pour scotch>