Simon K

Geents,

Could someone tell me the difference between a P1 and a 2 door STI 6 ??

Also, how does the new STI 7 compare to these above two ??

Can anyone suggest a site to go and read regarding the differences ??

Many thanks

SBK
98' Toyota Supra Twin Turbo
98' BMW M3 Evo convertible
Soon to have a STI v6 R

MartinM

Have a look at http://www.sidc.co.uk/faq.htm

IIRC, different ECU (same power but different emissions), lip spoiler, rear wing, UK-oriented suspension (and gear ratios?) and wheels. Oh, and a 3yr UK official dealer warranty

Adam M

Best place for real info is here.

You have come to the right place.

faq doesnt answer this stuff.

same shell.

same engine, but the P1 has an ecu tweak to allow it to run on uk fuel ( I would not rely on this).

Different front lip spolier and light covers housing different spot lights.

different rear wing.

speedo and rev counter are in diff places and also slightly diff interior.

different gear box. sti 6 has closer ratios hence lower top speed but more manic gearing.

type r has quick rack steering.

P1 has abs, type r has adjustable centre diff therefore cannot have abs.

along with centre diff, type r gets different mechanical rear lsd which can handle more torque, thicker rear drive shafts as a result of a greater rear bias torque split.

the rear drive shafts are only comaptivle with type r hubs which support two pot rear brake calipers (also on sti ra) but the p1 only has sliding rear calipers and the same torque distribution as the uk turbo.

So as far as I am concerned, the sti 6 actaully has the better hardware.

P1 suspension is better though for uk roads, and has different geometry, but these can be switched between cars.

I would have thought that most of the handling comes from the torque split set up combined with the suspension and gemoetry. In other words I would think of the P1 as an RBS with a little further development and a stiff chassis.

Big important points are the P1 having a three year warranty, although I dont think it has a bright switch, correct me if I am wrong.

edited because I didnt forget anything at all, especially not the right switch or the warranty period.

[Edited by Adam M - 10/19/2001 12:54:00 PM]

MichelleWRX1994

Was there a difference in colour too? Or was the STI6 available in any? P1 blue, STI yellow? Or have I got the wrong car?

Am I here?

Adam M

nope, sti 6 has/had a choice of colours whereas P1 is sonic blue only.

good point michelle, slipped my mind.

chuckster

Did the P1 get a bright switch along with its 3 YEAR WARRANTY?
P1 is very nice, make their power (276bhp on SUL) on rolling roads better than JECS managed standard STI5 and 6's seem to. At least thats the case on powerstations RR. The security of ABS helps them to be quicker on unfamiliar roads too.
Chuck
(No ABS, no bright switch and an STI that DOES manage 276BHP LOL)
Chuck

Adam M

Chuck are you blind?

there is no point repeating what I have already said.

You will only confuse people!

MartinM

There is definitely a bright switch in the P1

Simon K

Mmm thanks for that gents.

An old work colleage brought a V5, Is the V6 a vast improvement on the V5 ?? Also, he mentioned that the adjustable torque / 2/4 wheel thing, the switch near the gear stick, can go wrong and wear out quickly = big cash !! Is this true ??

Also, when looking at a car to buy, what should I look for in regards to mechanical things ?? Are there tests etc that I can perform ??

SBK

bennetm

Adam, you're a bit touchy. Chill winston!

MB

Jza

STI 7 was reviewed in a comparitive test with the P1 by Evo and they said that the 7 was "more of a handfull" than a P1. So if you like **** out antics, better build quality and a more intense experience - go for the STI 7!! Its quicker too Evo prefered the P1 at the end of the day.

Jza

wilf

Carpet mats and Trackstar are standard on the P1. Dont think Adam mentioned that one either!

wilf

Jza

I think you read a different copy of Evo to everyone else. As I recall in that EVO test the STi 7 only got 4.5 stars the P1 got 5 and the accolade as the ultimate Impreza.

wilf

Jza,
Ignore my last post sorry I cant read or write properly

Steve Breen

Info for Adam who is worried that the FAQ hasn't got all the right information it might be worth correcting some of the above....

The P1 gets the STi gearbox which is shorter ratios to the UK car.
The Type R gets the Type R gearbox which has shorter ratios still.
The centre diff on the Type R is an aquired taste as it gives the car a rear wheel bias feel in the unlocked position. This is something which is loved or hated.
The P1 gets the diffs from the STi and thus has a 50/50 torque split. The Uk car is biased towards the front.
Type R doesnt get quick rack only the RA and 22B ever had then as standard.
Type R has different spot lights...it does not have any!
Type R has climate control, P1 UK style air con.
Neither come with ICE but the P1 is single DIN standard the Type R has a double DIN.
P1 comes with a Thatcham 1 security system plus RAC Tracker.
P1 has 17in wheels the Type R has 16in with Japanese rubber.

For a full comparison see
http://www.iwoc.co.uk/p1f.html

Regards

Steve

Simon K

Gents,

How does the V6 compare to the V5 ?

SBK

Jza

Wilf!

If you use the "edit message" button quickly you can just about get away with it

LOL!

Jza

scoobynutta555

I have owned both a sti5typeR (which is basically the same as a 6) and a P1. I could never get used to the rear handeling characteristics of the sti. Although it seems u like rear wheel anyway seeing as u have a supra and a bmw. The P1 handeling in my view is set up better for our roads. It just felt more at ease wet or dry and not as skittish as the sti. Throw an sti typeR into a wet roundabout without the diff selector up a couple of notches and u slide about like youre on a strasky and hutch audition.

Its a matter of driving tastes and abilities i suppose. The P1 in my humble opinion comes across as a more mature car, both in its looks and its set up. I dont regret for a minute the extra cash i paid for the P1. And in all honesty i dont think i had the skills to drive the type R to its limit as i have never owned a rear wheel drive b4, nor even driven one!

Point to point wise, there is a clear winner and thats the P1 every time. I cant say anything about the new shape as i havent driven one. As far as i know though the uksti wont have the price tag nor the performance of the jap spec 1. So if u get an import cross your fingers.

Stevie

Isnt one a little overpriced and the other more of car you have to drive

I'll get my coat.

chrisp

I thought someone would have mentioned that the P1 started life as closer to an STi5 Type R not a 6TR . Dont suppose much difference though just my 2p worth .

ARRON BIRD

Give SGT a acll bound to let you have my old fully loaded P1 for a good price but remember they only gave me 21500 for it robbin basts

jeremy

I seem to remember J Barker in Evo commenting that the P1 has a different 4WD torque split- something like 40/60, he said it was certainly different than any UK spec (including thereofore the RB-5.

chopper

Arron,

How much? Crikey, I bought a Y reg P1 thinking it would hold it's value at least a bit better than my Esprit V8 (should of used cash instead of petrol to brun in that). How an earth did you accept such a low amount? Are they worth that little now?

Bob Rawle

P1 is based on an Sti V5 Type R but has STi V5 4 door transmission.
It has been fitted with a UK version dash instead of the original.
It still needs a speed delimiter (what ecu mod?)which is a small box patched into the ecu wiring loom (has a Prodrive part number).
It has Broquet in the tank (so we are reliably informed)
It has cosmetic differences.
Suspension is modified to be more compliant.

Apart from that ...

Adam M

Steve,

if my info is so wrong, how comes there were suddenly available a mass of quick steering racks (approx 1000) after the P1 came on the scene.

There seem to be no rules regarding what has or doesnt have a quick rack, but to say no type rs have it is simply wrong.

No one can be expected to give every point, but I think my discussion relating to rear diffs drive shafts and hubs and brakes was more comprehensive than the sidc thing.

I mentioned ratios, did I not?

also no one has accurately been able to say that the uk car has a\ 50 50 split so I dont know where that comes from. perhaps you can show me?

the dash was mentioned.

and there is no need to be so pedantic about different fog lights as opposed to no foglights, as it stands the fog light apertures are different.

scoobynutta 555, I am confused as to what you have written as notching the diff forward tends to make it more rigid and will force the car to behave more like the 50 50 drive (claimed above) of the standard car. All the way forward is locked giving a 50 50 front rear split but at the expense of allowing the front and rear axles to roatate at different speeds. It should only really be shifted forwards if traction is severly compromised.

I am wondering if you really bothered to learn your car before you dismissed its abilities .

Steve Breen

Not that I doubt the source of your information at all but I know the source of my information regarding 13:1 quick racks which are fitted to RA/22B and the 15:1 racks fitted as standard to Type R, STi and UK turbos. What happens with various special editions such as V-Limiteds is another matter.

The 50:50 torque split is the same for the 4 door STi, and P1 as they share the very same transmission. The split comes from the front to back final drive gear ratio which is the same on the STi/P1 but different on the UK spec turbo (giving the 65/35).

Sorry to have gotten confused over the fog light aperture too. The P1 Hella driving lights certainly fit into the same sized aperture as the blanking plate on a Type R. You even get the blanking plate on the P1 to fit over them for protection. So the aperture is the same.

Good point though on the rear diff/hubs and brakes.

Steve

scoobynutta555

Adam, for your information and to avoid u becomming easily confused. I owned the sti5 typeR for 5 months and drove it in all conditions. What i found was the the adjustible diff system was just a pain in the ****. If you ever took it out and drove it in wet conditions, like the mentioned roundabouts, the car was very twitchy and unless you had driving skills way and above the norm you would have great difficulty in keeping the back connecting with something solid at the same speeds u would in a P1. Take the P1 in a similar situation and it will show u the way each time with surefootedness without going down the "pointless" power slide route. I wasnt impressed with getting the back end out, i want speed, grip and safety not showboating. In the P1 you can have your foot to the floor and take on most things, in the typeR with foot to the floor youd have to look out the rear window to see where u were going.

As the car was used everyday and not just as an expensive toy to *** around in on the track, the diff settings had to be moved forward to stop excessive wheelspin, again something else i could do without. You try telling me u can have the diff setting on the first green and do a standing start at speed in the wet without any wheelspin.

And no i didnt dismiss the car without testing its driving capabilities as my participation in some very rapid impreza meets in it showed. I just find that with day to day driving like i do i was unsuited to continuing ownership of it. Dont confuse that with me not testing its abilities enough or me slating the car. Was simply saying that i wasnt an oversteer fanatic and didnt feel comfortable driving it. If u want a track car and u want a good laugh then the typeR is the car for u.That however is not what i want.

Simon K

Gents,


Thanks for your opinions. Can someone give me an insight into how the torque split switch / green lights work ?? From my understanding, slide the switch one way and the car is like a rear wheel drive, slide it the other way and it becomes a 50/50 split. Therefore to make it equal a P1, dont you have to slide the switch just under the 50/50 switch ??


Also, Ive been offered a new Tommi Hak. Evo v6.5 for £22.5k, is that good ??


SBK

Steve Breen

The torque switch LOCKS the differential in progressive steps. It does not ever act in a similar way to a normal limited slip differential as found on the P1/STi 4 doors.

In the off position the diff is free to send the torque front and back. The reason it acts like a rear wheel drive is because due to most occasions and physics it is the rear end of the car which goes first. As with any free acting diff ALL of the torque then gets sent to the axle that is slipping.

As you move the diff lock progressively forward it then turned the centre diff basically into a 50:50 split front and back but with no slip at all. You can here and feel the car fighting as you turn into tight turns and the like and using the car in this way in the dry is the best way to knacker the drive train. This is why its really something like off for dry, one click for wet, two clicks for gravel, and full on for snow etc. The loose surface makes up for the fact there is no slip.

The Prodrive WRC cars have a BIG sticker on the dash warning the co-driver to turn the diff locks off between stages. On one occasion the transmission was wrecked within 10 miles!

Regards

Steve

Simon K

Steve,

Sounds like the torque split is a load of bollocks then. What I want is to put my foot down and feel that all four wheels will be working at holding my down and not fish tailing everywhere.

But I dont like the 4 door look !! Mmmmm looks like a P1

SBK