Gizmo555

Has anyone else seen this yet -
A bill going through westminster will increase fixed penalty speeding fines to £60 as part of a strategy to reduce road deaths and injuries. Fixed penalty parking fines are to increase as well.

I guess fuel tax will be reduced by the corresponding amount from all this extra dosh. Like hell it will !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kelvin

Yes, saw it on the news last night - same thing sprang to my mind straight away

Guess they've gotta screw drivers to get money from somewhere....

Kelvin

Sith

I think this is covered else where on this forum.

But, if you don't speed you can't get knicked for it. If you don't park on yellows etc, you won't get a parking ticket.
Simple really.

This is not a hollier than thou approach. It's the truth.

Right, flame suit on with sand buckets on standby.

P.

[This message has been edited by Sith (edited 08 October 2000).]

DocJock

Sith,

saved me some more lumps m8

DJ

Carolyn T-S

Sith

Couldn't agree more - do you think they do a flame suit in a nice girlie colour.

Oh and if any of you tailgate my MY00 in dark Green between Thaxted and Basildon, yes it's me and no I will not speed through the villages or towns, and yes you will either get squirted with my headlamp washers, brake tested or some suitable hand gesture and if I'm feeling really mean I'll lure you into speeding through a couple of fixed speed cameras...............tee hee !!

[This message has been edited by Carolyn T-S (edited 08 October 2000).]

boomer

I fail to see how a twenty pound increase in fines will result in a decrease in "road deaths and injuries". Is there some cause/effect link that i am missing here?

If, say, this initiative results in a 5% reduction in accidents, then maybe they should then increase fines by four hundred pounds, and thus eliminate all deaths!

mb

Neil Smalley

Most people don't worry about the fines, it's the points that are the concern. It's just a cynical attempt to get more money without tackling the real causes. If they wanted to make it a safety issue why not increase the minimum points? If fining people helps road safety then raise the fine to a 100 quid and drop the points system

robski

A set amount will never work.
If you said £100 and no points, anyone seriously loaded, or who fancies a real blast will just accept the £100.

It has to be earnings related to be a deterrant.
Say 1% of earnings or something.
Just think annual salary £100K, speeding fine £1K, it would make you think wouldnt it.
Annual salary £100K, fine £60!? Hang on officer, I think I have that in small change under the seat....

For the record, I dont earn £100K

I do however believe that in general the speed limits are too low, but would like to see them weather dependant. I.e. if the roads are hazardous (raining, icy, busy etc)
then the limits should be lower. I also totally support a lower limit in towns.

robski

NickF

Robski,

I agree with you, but the administration costs of means-testing simple fines would make them £100 rather than £60 ....

In case you weren't aware, what you describe is exactly what happens in court - I was done last year and got 6 points & £1000 fine. The magistrates looked at my monthly disposable income and just took a big slice!

Then again, I was going way over the speed limit, and I didn't get a ban.

And yes, this HAS educated me - I no longer speed excessively on motorways or dual carriageways, and I do more track days. I don't think what I was doing was unsafe, but if I get another £1000 fine my wife will kill me.

Maybe that's the effect the Government expected?

kelvin

Sith, dont get me wrong - I dont condone speeding in any circumstances, BUT, surely the government should be doing more to prevent this from happening in the first place (eg placing GATSO's in visible spots, upping the no. of points dished out), rather than simply upping the fines so that more revenue is generated.

At the end of the day, if they're giving out endless amounts in fines - the message isn't getting across - people are still speeding, and accidents will still happen.

Kelvin

JamieR

If you really wanted to make the roads safer from excessive speeders, wouldn't you spend money educating the offending driver?

If you were really concerned about the environmental impact of road transport, wouldn't you use the generated revenue to research other energy sources?

The solutions are there for many of the major road transport issues, but they would cost the government, rather than make it money.

Jamie

RichS

It really pi$$es me off the way our government uses environmental and road safety concerns to disguise it's "motorist revenue generator"

Don't get me started....

Rich

JamieR

Me too.

Of course, we can all sleep at night knowing that the government "is listening to all opinions".

Jamie


[This message has been edited by JamieR (edited 09 October 2000).]

MorayMackenzie

If the government upped the number of points for a fixed penalty speeding ticket they would reduce the number of fines they get before the driver is banned... if they up the fine but leave the points they can potentially recieve 4 lots of £X fine... $ $ kerching! $ $

Upping the fine to cover admin costs... humm... so all these fully automatic computerised average speed systems that are being installed and tested around the country aren't going to drop the cost of administrating the fines... ???

Mr Cynical

Gizmo555

I'm sure it won't be too long before points are dropped cause there won't be any of us left on the road to generate all that revenue.

I'm sure there will be some logical reasoning as to why having no penalty points will reduce accidents, road deaths etc.

Try educating the pedestrian that steps out in front of the car - thats by far the highest cause of car related road deaths. Maybe points/fine system for stupid pedestrians would be more appropriate.

By the way I don't condone speeding.

Sith

Kelvin - Cool.

Re placement of Cameras. I agree it is sneeky. And they are mainly used as a revenue generator in a lot of places. But they work as a deterant to the driver who cares about his (or hers) driving and is proud not to have a points collection.

I have driven upto London just recently and have adhered quite stricktly to the speed limits as I don't know where the cameras are. Therefore they are working as a deterant. There is one on a flyover on the A3 that always seems to be going off. Catching people speeding who don't care. It's a 50 limit and I know they don't flash until almost 60. It is collecting revenue and hopefully making people slow and think after the flash. Cameras in the right place do not annoy me.

I agree points more than fines stop people but 3 points is enough. Maybe the points should vary on location. Outside a school for instance is 5 points where as on a Motorway designed for high speed it stays at 3 points

As you say people will always speed. While they are able too.

Even if you do retests and further courses people can choose to ignore all they have learn't.


Gizmo555,

I agree with you feelings over peds. They are too busy talking/going about their lives with no thought of what may be comming when they step out.
The law is on their side. A pedestrian has right of way on the road. Be it on the motorway or on the local road. Or so it seems.

Remember the Green cross code man. The Onus has now been placed on the driver. A ped should be held accountable for his actions. But in the eyes of the courts and the likes of pressure groups we grow horns and have a manic desire to swerve and hit every ped. This is propaganda people believe.

No digs at any one. Just my humble ramblings.

P.

[This message has been edited by Sith (edited 09 October 2000).]

JamieR

Dave,

The way to make roads safer is to teach drivers to read the road. However, many drivers are uneducated, uninterested, and worst of all, not concentrating. If these people would blindly adhere to speed limits, it would still be better than them blasting past a school whilst on the phone doing 50mph - which I see everyday. It's this sort of behaviour that actually gives the "speed kills" arguement some credibility - these people ruin it for us all.

In an ideal world, everyone would correctly adapt their speed to the conditions and we wouldn't need speed limits at all! Now, what's the chances of that happening?

Jamie

Sith

hutton_d,

Where did I say that it makes them a dangerous driver?
All I mentioned that they may think afterwards and slow down to the speed limit so they do not risk the accumulation of more points.

I believe that misapropriate speed is the problem. But if you don't want points you stick to the speed limits. This is specially true of the new SPECS.

Agreed that blind adherance to the limits is not the answer. 70 on a Motorway in torrential rain, fog etc is stupid.

I also believe that the IAM test should be compolsury. I have the books just not been practasing (sp).

P.

JamieR

Indeed. The average driver appears to dislike the inconvienience of having to change speed. There is nothing more annoying than being overtaken in a 30 zone by a 45mpher, who then holds you up by still doing 45 in the unrestricted zone. These people are particularly dangerous drivers because they don't adapt their speed to the conditions.

Jamie

Bas

Sith

I agree with everything you say about the speed cameras. I drove up the A3 the other day and like you I don't know exactly where the cameras are. Its bloody annoying cruising along at 50 but the cameras made me think about my speed so they must be doing their job.

But at least we know that the cameras are there. I got 3 points for doing 46 in a 30 zone a few years ago (been clean since then though!). I've got no complaints about getting caught but the copper who nabbed me was hiding behind a bush with his hand held radar! I can't see how that is anything other than a revenue generating exercise.

I also think their should be zero tolerance near schools and heavy residential areas. There's just no excuse for speeding when there's kids around.

But it should be balanced by an increase in the national speed limit. The limit was set in the sixties when half the cars could barely reach 70. I think it needs updating now.

Ok...I'll get off my soap box now!

Cheers

Bas

adelasalle

All,

The speed limit relating to conditions sounds like a great idea.. I too, agree with low speed limits through built up areas, specifically the 20mph one.. But as for the idea it will reduce accidents by a hugh amount by increasing the fine, rubbish.. Most of the accidents my friends and I have fallen foul to, have been idiots driving too damn close... for example, yesterday on the M1 an artic lorry rear ended my mate in his Lexus, the car is pretty much a right off, the lorry drivers excuse "Sorry mate, saw your break lights, but just couldnt slow down enuff".. well perhaps he should have considered driving at a safe distance? The same thing has happened to me too.. Perhaps driving too close should be cosidered an offence ("dangerous driving").. oh forgot to add, the artic hitting my mate, caused a transit to swerve and carreer through the central reservation into on coming traffic.. good job truck driver...

I think I reserve my speed for track days..

Alex

Jerome

I'm sure we've all followed behind someone who seems to be more interested in chatting to their passenger than their driving. Even though they may be doing the speed limit (or lower) doesn't make them safe. They may have actually hit the pedestrian before they even notice them. A speed trap/camera will not detect the lack of concentration and they poodle on oblivious to all around them. Is this person really safer than a concentrating driver doing, say, 5mph over the limit.

Also, in response to the posts about pedestrians being on the road. Adults are largely to blame if they walk out in front of a vehicle, but the motorist is still to blame for not anticipating the suicidal pedestrian (according, it seems to the law).
However, when it comes to children, research has shown they do not have road sense. It doesn't take much to make even a 'switched on' kid run into the road without looking. So if caught speeding outside a school (even by 1mph), there is no excuse. But how many speed traps are mounted outside schools? Hardly any, because most motorists probably slow down. Hence the mounting of speed traps where the most revenue (read tax) can be collected.

Jerome.

adelasalle

Dave,

Yes, the point I was getting at was that people need to be more aware of how to drive in certain conditions, although ABS helps, it isnt the answer!.. I am currently looking into the advance driving and some sort of course like 'wetter the better'.. as I've been caught out by ice in the past when driving below the speed limit and reacted the wrong way in response to it.. nobody is infalable (sp!), we are all human.. but then again, some people are just down right stupid behind the wheel.

Education/awareness is the answer...

JamieR

We all agree!

I also would highly recommend the IAM course to anyone. However, bear in mind that it teaches defensive, safe driving techniques, not performance driving. I hope to get some track instruction soon to help me with in this area to.

Jamie

Scott!

ABS ain't much good if your wheels aren't touching the floor! Eh Alex?


Fiat Coupe Turbo Ring any bells???

Scott! - Who knows people that know!

adelasalle

..oh god.. I knew someone on here would recognise me...

So which Scott is this??

Yes, yes, ice + roundabout + wrong reaction = me 5 yrs back hanging upside down thinking, hmm.. *** company car, my manager wont like this...
6month old fiat coupe turbo was a right off, no nu shells due to the 20value version coming out..

To be honest, it was the golf VR6 who'd traction controll didnt work air bourne on a dirt track...

Scott, your comments?

cheers, Alex

Scott!

The story I heard was

Sunny Day + Too fast + roundabout = You hanging upside down....


As for how I know you..... You left where I work as I started.. I just heard all the stories being a petrol head! The names: Patel, Parkin and Walker should give you a clue!

Scott!

adelasalle

Yes they do... wait til I get hold of them

As for the weather it was mid dec '96 late evening when that happened...

Say Hi to Dino if hes still there (which he probably is... part of the furniture when I was there... ).

l8r, Alex