Arggghh! ADSL installaiton failure - help!
05 October 2000, 10:50 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
BT Openworld phoned today to say that they couldn't continue with my ADSL installation because my BT line had failed a line quality test.
Voice sounds ok, but if I plug a modem in I can't get a connection at ANY speed...
At the moment, my order is on hold and I can resume it if I can get this sorted out.
Techy questions -
What does a line quality test test? I know some of the internal cabling is dodgy - does the line test also test house wiring?
My street has phone lines above street level on a pole - is this a factor?
I've got a BT engineer visiting tomorrow - what should I ask him to repair, test, or replace?
Thanks,
Alex
P.S. sorry for the cross post.
BT Openworld phoned today to say that they couldn't continue with my ADSL installation because my BT line had failed a line quality test.
Voice sounds ok, but if I plug a modem in I can't get a connection at ANY speed...
At the moment, my order is on hold and I can resume it if I can get this sorted out.
Techy questions -
What does a line quality test test? I know some of the internal cabling is dodgy - does the line test also test house wiring?
My street has phone lines above street level on a pole - is this a factor?
I've got a BT engineer visiting tomorrow - what should I ask him to repair, test, or replace?
Thanks,
Alex
P.S. sorry for the cross post.
06 October 2000, 11:37 AM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I bought my adsl from a seperate isp but still had to rely on BT for the installs.
Had it installed over three weeks ago and they still havent got it working!
In fact it took them 2 weeks just to get the analogue line working properly!
Its hardly surprising tho when you think my £1k a quarter BT isdn2e is going to get kicked into touch when my 2 meg adsl starts working and all of a sudden BT start ruining other isps installs.... hmm funny that.
Peter - still on isdn2e till his 2mb adsl gets sorted.
Had it installed over three weeks ago and they still havent got it working!
In fact it took them 2 weeks just to get the analogue line working properly!
Its hardly surprising tho when you think my £1k a quarter BT isdn2e is going to get kicked into touch when my 2 meg adsl starts working and all of a sudden BT start ruining other isps installs.... hmm funny that.
Peter - still on isdn2e till his 2mb adsl gets sorted.
06 October 2000, 11:53 AM
#3
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ptholt
And has BT promised you 2 meg ADSL service ? is this just for the web or for Video on demand the last I heard they were only offering 512K.
I am working for an ADSL manufacturer and was involved with the BT rollout back in the UK before moving to Sweden, don't expect miracles alot of service providers do not have the backbone capacity to offer 2megs and it aint going to be a bed of roses with what ever you do get as you have already found out.
And has BT promised you 2 meg ADSL service ? is this just for the web or for Video on demand the last I heard they were only offering 512K.
I am working for an ADSL manufacturer and was involved with the BT rollout back in the UK before moving to Sweden, don't expect miracles alot of service providers do not have the backbone capacity to offer 2megs and it aint going to be a bed of roses with what ever you do get as you have already found out.
06 October 2000, 12:04 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2000
Location: MY00,MY01,RX-8, Alfa 147 & Focus ST :-)
Posts: 10,371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alex
Without resorting to my techy manuals (it's too late to dig them out
), the line test will involve looking at impedance, dB loss - bascially signal to noise ratios.
I believe that the current demarkation point for the DSL service is the port on the ADSL modem. This should mean that they will test your house wiring as well. If you know some of your internal cabling is dodgy I would let them know this, although the original test would have been carried out from the exchange and would not have included your domestic wiring - so this is unlikey to be the problem.
Cabling quality and installation will vary greatly (some parts of the country have used aluminium wiring as opposed to copper for instance) and there are many points where interference can occur.
It might also be worth finding out how far from the exchange you are. As I'm sure you know, ADSL has distance limitations and some DSLAMs (DSL Access Multiplexor)are more sensitive to distance and line quality than others.
I haven't heard that overhead lines would be any better or worse than buried cables. there is potential for interference with both.
Good luck
Chris (still waiting to hear from BT when I will get mine...)
[This message has been edited by Chris L (edited 06 October 2000).]
Without resorting to my techy manuals (it's too late to dig them out
), the line test will involve looking at impedance, dB loss - bascially signal to noise ratios.I believe that the current demarkation point for the DSL service is the port on the ADSL modem. This should mean that they will test your house wiring as well. If you know some of your internal cabling is dodgy I would let them know this, although the original test would have been carried out from the exchange and would not have included your domestic wiring - so this is unlikey to be the problem.
Cabling quality and installation will vary greatly (some parts of the country have used aluminium wiring as opposed to copper for instance) and there are many points where interference can occur.
It might also be worth finding out how far from the exchange you are. As I'm sure you know, ADSL has distance limitations and some DSLAMs (DSL Access Multiplexor)are more sensitive to distance and line quality than others.
I haven't heard that overhead lines would be any better or worse than buried cables. there is potential for interference with both.
Good luck
Chris (still waiting to hear from BT when I will get mine...)
[This message has been edited by Chris L (edited 06 October 2000).]
06 October 2000, 03:48 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alex M,
The fact of the overhead cables will make no difference as opposed to undergorund. It all depends on what state they are in.
The test itself relies largely on the line staying below a resistance parameter that has been decided beforehand for all tests. Basically, as stated before, if you have got poor quality cable due to it being wet or old etc, the line will have built up a large resistance to any signal being transmitted along it. The more complicated the signal, the 'cleaner' the line will have to be.
The line test is all the way to the initial socket, but not to any extensions. It is very unlikely that the wiring in your house could be bad enough to impede a signal. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.
If the visiting engineer is local, try asking him about the route to your house and does he think it's a hopeless case to enable a go ahead on the order. You can also ask whether anybody living close to you has had a successful installation.
Th reason these tests fail is mostly due to the overall poor quality of the entire route, but it can be down to an isolated bad joint or junction. If it is down to this, then the engineer will be the man to know.
If you need any more help mail me, though I'm going home for the weekend at any moment!!
Hope this helps.
blubs
The fact of the overhead cables will make no difference as opposed to undergorund. It all depends on what state they are in.
The test itself relies largely on the line staying below a resistance parameter that has been decided beforehand for all tests. Basically, as stated before, if you have got poor quality cable due to it being wet or old etc, the line will have built up a large resistance to any signal being transmitted along it. The more complicated the signal, the 'cleaner' the line will have to be.
The line test is all the way to the initial socket, but not to any extensions. It is very unlikely that the wiring in your house could be bad enough to impede a signal. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.
If the visiting engineer is local, try asking him about the route to your house and does he think it's a hopeless case to enable a go ahead on the order. You can also ask whether anybody living close to you has had a successful installation.
Th reason these tests fail is mostly due to the overall poor quality of the entire route, but it can be down to an isolated bad joint or junction. If it is down to this, then the engineer will be the man to know.
If you need any more help mail me, though I'm going home for the weekend at any moment!!
Hope this helps.
blubs
06 October 2000, 05:55 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Hi Alex,
I do work for B.T. via Ericsson, we do the roll out for the asdl, your bandwidth will increase from the 64k (56k modem) to 512k.
Your line is a different matter though. One thing they dont tell you is that the average life expectancy of your external line, ie from the junction box to your house via a nice telegraph pole is 10years. you can ask for it to be replaced if you are getting interferance, the wiring in the exchange its self is normally pretty good though most manufacturers still give it a life of 10 years before it needs replacing.
Weathering, birds etc cause premature wear on external lines, interferance from external sources is normally minimal though.
Your internal cabling in your house should be
ok though, you can have something like 6 - 8 extensions off one line box without any problems.
It sounds like you just need a new wire from your house to the juntion box. Do you know how long its been there for????
Bulbs, you do the data for the NGS switches i commission??!!!
I hope chester is ok for you!!
Hope this has helped.
cheers
Tony
[This message has been edited by TonyBurns (edited 06 October 2000).]
I do work for B.T. via Ericsson, we do the roll out for the asdl, your bandwidth will increase from the 64k (56k modem) to 512k.
Your line is a different matter though. One thing they dont tell you is that the average life expectancy of your external line, ie from the junction box to your house via a nice telegraph pole is 10years. you can ask for it to be replaced if you are getting interferance, the wiring in the exchange its self is normally pretty good though most manufacturers still give it a life of 10 years before it needs replacing.
Weathering, birds etc cause premature wear on external lines, interferance from external sources is normally minimal though.
Your internal cabling in your house should be
ok though, you can have something like 6 - 8 extensions off one line box without any problems.
It sounds like you just need a new wire from your house to the juntion box. Do you know how long its been there for????
Bulbs, you do the data for the NGS switches i commission??!!!
I hope chester is ok for you!! Hope this has helped.
cheers
Tony
[This message has been edited by TonyBurns (edited 06 October 2000).]
Trending Topics
06 October 2000, 06:42 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
Thanks for your replies so far.
The wiring in the house was a real mess. There was a wired extension which didn't work, in general the cabling was all over the place, and there was one cable which had been cut and then twisted back together without insulation so some of the connections were shorting out.
I've asked for another line test now that it's been sorted out. I also conducted a dialback test by dialing 17070, which told me that the circuit length is 4.2km. I am a little suprised, as I was told the test was failed due to poor circuit quality, rather than being too far from the exchange..
If this distance is correct, then I may be out of luck anyway
.
We'll see what happened when it is retested, but I'd appreciate any advice about what I can ask BT to do about the line if it turns out to be close enough, but the signal loss is still greater than 43Db.
Cheers,
Alex
[This message has been edited by AlexM (edited 06 October 2000).]
Thanks for your replies so far.
The wiring in the house was a real mess. There was a wired extension which didn't work, in general the cabling was all over the place, and there was one cable which had been cut and then twisted back together without insulation so some of the connections were shorting out.
I've asked for another line test now that it's been sorted out. I also conducted a dialback test by dialing 17070, which told me that the circuit length is 4.2km. I am a little suprised, as I was told the test was failed due to poor circuit quality, rather than being too far from the exchange..
If this distance is correct, then I may be out of luck anyway
.We'll see what happened when it is retested, but I'd appreciate any advice about what I can ask BT to do about the line if it turns out to be close enough, but the signal loss is still greater than 43Db.
Cheers,
Alex
[This message has been edited by AlexM (edited 06 October 2000).]
06 October 2000, 06:57 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Dont worry about the distance from the exchange, we use line drivers, about the size of your mouse on twisted pair cable, the range??? 7.5miles!!!!! good aint it!!
Still check the age of the line to your house, 10 years is along time to be shoved out in all weathers and they do degrade with age, as for the cabling at the exchange, you should find all the asdl switches have been in less than 18months and use fibre optics rather than cable to travel through the buildings.
If you pop into somewhere like tandy you should be able to get a new extension lead for your house, there a doddle to put in, also replace your line box if its duff, new ones are better than the old ones for ease of use.
Tony
Still check the age of the line to your house, 10 years is along time to be shoved out in all weathers and they do degrade with age, as for the cabling at the exchange, you should find all the asdl switches have been in less than 18months and use fibre optics rather than cable to travel through the buildings.
If you pop into somewhere like tandy you should be able to get a new extension lead for your house, there a doddle to put in, also replace your line box if its duff, new ones are better than the old ones for ease of use.
Tony
06 October 2000, 09:34 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2000
Location: MY00,MY01,RX-8, Alfa 147 & Focus ST :-)
Posts: 10,371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ADSL (like all DSL variants) is distance sensitive so this could have an affect on performance (as can the thickness of the wire). 4KM should'nt stop you getting service it will just need a bit of work from BT.
Don't give up just yet!
Chris
Dave - I'm going to Stockholm on Monday for a week - (lots of training and meetings..) who are you working for? Chris
[This message has been edited by Chris L (edited 06 October 2000).]
Don't give up just yet!
Chris
Dave - I'm going to Stockholm on Monday for a week - (lots of training and meetings..) who are you working for? Chris
[This message has been edited by Chris L (edited 06 October 2000).]
06 October 2000, 10:57 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chris,
I am working for Ericsson as a Broadband trouble shooter (ANxDSL) . If thats where you are going look me up my ID is QTXDMAC.
Tony,
Are you installing Ericsson DSL in the UK or Fujitsu/Alcatel.
Dave
I am working for Ericsson as a Broadband trouble shooter (ANxDSL) . If thats where you are going look me up my ID is QTXDMAC.
Tony,
Are you installing Ericsson DSL in the UK or Fujitsu/Alcatel.
Dave
07 October 2000, 01:11 AM
#14
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Hi Dave,
i install/Commission the BYB501 NGS switches, then next year the AXD301, dont do the alcatel but do all ericsson including the surftime jobs (BYB202) If you have any jobs going that pay well i'm up for it!!
Cheers
Tony
i install/Commission the BYB501 NGS switches, then next year the AXD301, dont do the alcatel but do all ericsson including the surftime jobs
(BYB202) If you have any jobs going that pay well i'm up for it!!Cheers
Tony
09 October 2000, 12:44 AM
#15
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 8,204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AlexM
Do you have cable TV? If so an alternative is a cable modem. It provides similar speeds to ADSL but is less restrictive in terms on line and distance quality. I think NTL and telewest(blue yonder) do them.
Just an idea
Do you have cable TV? If so an alternative is a cable modem. It provides similar speeds to ADSL but is less restrictive in terms on line and distance quality. I think NTL and telewest(blue yonder) do them.
Just an idea
09 October 2000, 12:49 AM
#16
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello,
I think that all telecomms providers (appart from cable TV) use the same wires and exchange so if BT dont work then no-one will.
If you can change to cable thats your only choice or kick up fuss and BT may do some work on the infrastructure.
I think that all telecomms providers (appart from cable TV) use the same wires and exchange so if BT dont work then no-one will.
If you can change to cable thats your only choice or kick up fuss and BT may do some work on the infrastructure.
09 October 2000, 10:07 AM
#17
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
Got the results of my BT Openworld line re-test. I seem to have gone backwards since the last time - now my line quality is too poor, and now I am also too far away from the exchange (4.2km).
Do all suppliers of ADSL use the same criteria for distance, or are some better (more generous) than others?. Someone mentioned that with a line driver this distance shouldn't be a problem.. what gives?
I'm very disappointed not to be able to proceed. Can anyone offer any advice or help at all?
Thanks,
Alex
Got the results of my BT Openworld line re-test. I seem to have gone backwards since the last time - now my line quality is too poor, and now I am also too far away from the exchange (4.2km).
Do all suppliers of ADSL use the same criteria for distance, or are some better (more generous) than others?. Someone mentioned that with a line driver this distance shouldn't be a problem.. what gives?
I'm very disappointed not to be able to proceed. Can anyone offer any advice or help at all?
Thanks,
Alex
09 October 2000, 10:33 AM
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by TonyBurns:
<B>
Bulbs, you do the data for the NGS switches i commission??!!! I hope chester is ok for you!! [/quote]
Hi Tony!
Sorry about the delayed reply as I'm still not connected at home since moving the PC to another room, so have to wait until Monday to hit the BB
Yup, got my fingers crossed for Chester. Roll on 3rd Feb.......allegedly
blubs
ps Do you roll out ADSL post cutover of the switch?
<B>
Bulbs, you do the data for the NGS switches i commission??!!!
I hope chester is ok for you!! [/quote]Hi Tony!
Sorry about the delayed reply as I'm still not connected at home since moving the PC to another room, so have to wait until Monday to hit the BB
Yup, got my fingers crossed for Chester. Roll on 3rd Feb.......allegedly
blubs
ps Do you roll out ADSL post cutover of the switch?
09 October 2000, 02:33 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I got my 2mb download from freedom 2 surf but am having major problems getting it working.
It doesnt help when you find out there support team only works 9-5 mon-sat and you know more than they do!
I have a friend who is on the btopenworld trial with a 2mb conn and he loves it!
It doesnt help when you find out there support team only works 9-5 mon-sat and you know more than they do!
I have a friend who is on the btopenworld trial with a 2mb conn and he loves it!
09 October 2000, 06:27 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2000
Location: MY00,MY01,RX-8, Alfa 147 & Focus ST :-)
Posts: 10,371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder if he will still love it when the DSLAM is fully loaded and the contention ratio drops to 1:30
Seriously though Alex, if you want more info, have a look at the ADSL forum
Seriously though Alex, if you want more info, have a look at the ADSL forum
09 October 2000, 07:28 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: 1600cc's of twin scroll fun :)
Posts: 25,565
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Hi Bulbs,
we only cover up to 1 month after FPA1 (this friday), the rest is then covered by Ericsson support, the good news is that chester is going well and looks ok so far
I'll try not to break it for you
Tony
we only cover up to 1 month after FPA1 (this friday), the rest is then covered by Ericsson support, the good news is that chester is going well and looks ok so far
I'll try not to break it for you
Tony
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Bazil_SW
Engine Management and ECU Remapping
24
21 September 2015 11:55 PM