PPP on MY06 STI
18 January 2006, 09:54 PM
#3
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Rumour has it they're having trouble getting power out of the 2.5 block without melting bits 
I'm sure those rumours are wrong and will soon be refuted by a senior member of the Prodrive establishment 
I'm sure those rumours are wrong and will soon be refuted by a senior member of the Prodrive establishment
18 January 2006, 10:01 PM
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Lol, what a crock 
You really think Prodrive are struggling to add another 30 or 40 ponies to the new 2.5 without blowing the engine?
Why bother to even speculate about such misinformed cobblers?
I'm sure if there's any delay at all on the new PPP it's because it's mostly an all new engine and will consequently need a little more development time than the familiar 2.0 of old.
You really think Prodrive are struggling to add another 30 or 40 ponies to the new 2.5 without blowing the engine?
Why bother to even speculate about such misinformed cobblers?
I'm sure if there's any delay at all on the new PPP it's because it's mostly an all new engine and will consequently need a little more development time than the familiar 2.0 of old.
19 January 2006, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by corradoboy
Rumour has it they're having trouble getting power out of the 2.5 block without melting bits I'm sure those rumours are wrong and will soon be refuted by a senior member of the Prodrive establishment
I'm sure those rumours are wrong and will soon be refuted by a senior member of the Prodrive establishment martin
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20 January 2006, 05:39 PM
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mad555
We are currently working hard on the various packages for 06MY WRX, STi and Forester 2.5XT although I can't confirm any details at the moment.
All the other Prodrive options that we had for 05MY are available for the 06MY cars such as springs, wheels and tyres (now including forged GC05 and GC010 like P2) spoilers, brakes, diff guards, gearknobs etc.
Whilst I'm here, are there any products that we don't do, that we should do?
Regards
Mike
We are currently working hard on the various packages for 06MY WRX, STi and Forester 2.5XT although I can't confirm any details at the moment.
All the other Prodrive options that we had for 05MY are available for the 06MY cars such as springs, wheels and tyres (now including forged GC05 and GC010 like P2) spoilers, brakes, diff guards, gearknobs etc.
Whilst I'm here, are there any products that we don't do, that we should do?
Regards
Mike
20 January 2006, 06:00 PM
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MakeModelYearPowerWeight
(KG)BHP/Ton0 - 60
(Secs)0 - 100
(Secs)60 - 100
(Secs)1/4 Mile
(Secs)Term Speed
(MPH)1/4 Mile (D)
(Secs)Term Speed (D)
(MPH)
SubaruImpreza WRX Sti PPP 2.5
06 305 1495 207.29 4.84 12.70 7.86 13.54 103.25 13.14 106.54
SubaruImpreza WRX Sti Type UK PPP02 305 1470 210.81 4.77 12.51 7.74 13.47 103.74 13.07 1 07.06
http://www.letstorquebhp.com/4wd.asp
seems the my06 is slower lol
(KG)BHP/Ton0 - 60
(Secs)0 - 100
(Secs)60 - 100
(Secs)1/4 Mile
(Secs)Term Speed
(MPH)1/4 Mile (D)
(Secs)Term Speed (D)
(MPH)
SubaruImpreza WRX Sti PPP 2.5
06 305 1495 207.29 4.84 12.70 7.86 13.54 103.25 13.14 106.54
SubaruImpreza WRX Sti Type UK PPP02 305 1470 210.81 4.77 12.51 7.74 13.47 103.74 13.07 1 07.06
http://www.letstorquebhp.com/4wd.asp
seems the my06 is slower lol
Last edited by zoney-WRX; 20 January 2006 at 06:02 PM.
20 January 2006, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeWood
mad555
We are currently working hard on the various packages for 06MY WRX, STi and Forester 2.5XT although I can't confirm any details at the moment.
All the other Prodrive options that we had for 05MY are available for the 06MY cars such as springs, wheels and tyres (now including forged GC05 and GC010 like P2) spoilers, brakes, diff guards, gearknobs etc.
Whilst I'm here, are there any products that we don't do, that we should do?
Regards
Mike
We are currently working hard on the various packages for 06MY WRX, STi and Forester 2.5XT although I can't confirm any details at the moment.
All the other Prodrive options that we had for 05MY are available for the 06MY cars such as springs, wheels and tyres (now including forged GC05 and GC010 like P2) spoilers, brakes, diff guards, gearknobs etc.
Whilst I'm here, are there any products that we don't do, that we should do?
Regards
Mike
20 January 2006, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeWood
mad555
We are currently working hard on the various packages for 06MY WRX, STi and Forester 2.5XT although I can't confirm any details at the moment.
All the other Prodrive options that we had for 05MY are available for the 06MY cars such as springs, wheels and tyres (now including forged GC05 and GC010 like P2) spoilers, brakes, diff guards, gearknobs etc.
Whilst I'm here, are there any products that we don't do, that we should do?
Regards
Mike
We are currently working hard on the various packages for 06MY WRX, STi and Forester 2.5XT although I can't confirm any details at the moment.
All the other Prodrive options that we had for 05MY are available for the 06MY cars such as springs, wheels and tyres (now including forged GC05 and GC010 like P2) spoilers, brakes, diff guards, gearknobs etc.
Whilst I'm here, are there any products that we don't do, that we should do?
Regards
Mike
reasonably priced mud flap kit.
guages set
carpet set
driver training days
d.v. for those that want the sound?
21 January 2006, 11:02 AM
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zoney-WRX
Don't know where they've got their info from but we haven't even dyno tested the car at figures that low!! We haven't done any performance figures yet either.....
wrc350bhp
There are several ways round that, buy a WRX bootlid, swap the spoiler and boot with someone who has a WRX or fill the holes and repaint. We looked at this quite hard and decided that there were too many holes to cover and even trying would spoil what were trying to achieve. We also didn't think that many peolpe with an STi would want to change their spoiler.
GOOner
Rear silencers have been available for some time now. We've looked at induction mods as part of a wider ranging package and will revisit it when we get 06MY WRX, STi & Forester 2.5XT PPP into market. We're also looking at suspension, wheels and brakes.
mad555
Anti-lag? What's more likely to work on a road car is a response system similar to P2 but that's not really an aftermarket product.
Pete
Yes, I did!!
ARM-scooby
reasonably priced mud flap kit. Our current kits are priced as low as we can get them, although we are looking at something simpler.
guages set There are some Subaru gauges available already. We would like to do a proper electronic set like PSI3 but have been struggling to get a reasonably priced display to base it around.
carpet set On the list already
driver training days Watch this space...
d.v. for those that want the sound? You are kidding. I hope..........
Mike
Don't know where they've got their info from but we haven't even dyno tested the car at figures that low!! We haven't done any performance figures yet either.....
wrc350bhp
There are several ways round that, buy a WRX bootlid, swap the spoiler and boot with someone who has a WRX or fill the holes and repaint. We looked at this quite hard and decided that there were too many holes to cover and even trying would spoil what were trying to achieve. We also didn't think that many peolpe with an STi would want to change their spoiler.
GOOner
Rear silencers have been available for some time now. We've looked at induction mods as part of a wider ranging package and will revisit it when we get 06MY WRX, STi & Forester 2.5XT PPP into market. We're also looking at suspension, wheels and brakes.
mad555
Anti-lag? What's more likely to work on a road car is a response system similar to P2 but that's not really an aftermarket product.
Pete
Yes, I did!!
ARM-scooby
reasonably priced mud flap kit. Our current kits are priced as low as we can get them, although we are looking at something simpler.
guages set There are some Subaru gauges available already. We would like to do a proper electronic set like PSI3 but have been struggling to get a reasonably priced display to base it around.
carpet set On the list already
driver training days Watch this space...
d.v. for those that want the sound? You are kidding. I hope..........
Mike
21 January 2006, 11:29 AM
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Mike
Just out of interest, I have a MY05 STI with PPP. This is supposed to be 300bhp. After reading many posts from members on this forum, saying that when they've put their car on some rollers, they never get anywhere near the stated 300BHP. More like 280 or less.
Does the ECU upgrade always give 300BHP to every car, or can individual cars vary in there BHP outputs.
Do you have, or plan to have facilities where customers can bring their cars too you for individual mapping, rather than having the dealers send you the ECU's via post. If this was an option, then I sure most people would prefer to bring their cars to you. I know I would.
Interested to hear your comments.
Just out of interest, I have a MY05 STI with PPP. This is supposed to be 300bhp. After reading many posts from members on this forum, saying that when they've put their car on some rollers, they never get anywhere near the stated 300BHP. More like 280 or less.
Does the ECU upgrade always give 300BHP to every car, or can individual cars vary in there BHP outputs.
Do you have, or plan to have facilities where customers can bring their cars too you for individual mapping, rather than having the dealers send you the ECU's via post. If this was an option, then I sure most people would prefer to bring their cars to you. I know I would.
Interested to hear your comments.
21 January 2006, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by zoney-WRX
MakeModelYearPowerWeight
(KG)BHP/Ton0 - 60
(Secs)0 - 100
(Secs)60 - 100
(Secs)1/4 Mile
(Secs)Term Speed
(MPH)1/4 Mile (D)
(Secs)Term Speed (D)
(MPH)
SubaruImpreza WRX Sti PPP 2.5
06 305 1495 207.29 4.84 12.70 7.86 13.54 103.25 13.14 106.54
SubaruImpreza WRX Sti Type UK PPP02 305 1470 210.81 4.77 12.51 7.74 13.47 103.74 13.07 1 07.06
http://www.letstorquebhp.com/4wd.asp
seems the my06 is slower lol
(KG)BHP/Ton0 - 60
(Secs)0 - 100
(Secs)60 - 100
(Secs)1/4 Mile
(Secs)Term Speed
(MPH)1/4 Mile (D)
(Secs)Term Speed (D)
(MPH)
SubaruImpreza WRX Sti PPP 2.5
06 305 1495 207.29 4.84 12.70 7.86 13.54 103.25 13.14 106.54
SubaruImpreza WRX Sti Type UK PPP02 305 1470 210.81 4.77 12.51 7.74 13.47 103.74 13.07 1 07.06
http://www.letstorquebhp.com/4wd.asp
seems the my06 is slower lol
Where does that data come from? Or is it all made up using a 1/4 calculator.
More specifically the Spec C listed as a 2.5 does not exist - they have 2.0 engines.
21 January 2006, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by stilover
Mike
Just out of interest, I have a MY05 STI with PPP. This is supposed to be 300bhp. After reading many posts from members on this forum, saying that when they've put their car on some rollers, they never get anywhere near the stated 300BHP. More like 280 or less.
Does the ECU upgrade always give 300BHP to every car, or can individual cars vary in there BHP outputs..
Just out of interest, I have a MY05 STI with PPP. This is supposed to be 300bhp. After reading many posts from members on this forum, saying that when they've put their car on some rollers, they never get anywhere near the stated 300BHP. More like 280 or less.
Does the ECU upgrade always give 300BHP to every car, or can individual cars vary in there BHP outputs..
The PPP map looks at inlet tempuratures before the turbo, and ramps back the boost tagret if it gets hot. The std sti map and other re-maps do not use this safeguard.
...
Subaru
Technical Service Bulletin
Subject: PPP Tests
Model: Sti
We are becoming increasingly aware that owners of the above vehicles and others equipped with a PPP are taking their vehicles for a rolling road test and being advised of varying results on power output.
A rolling road test is very difficult to rely on to give an absolute figure of the output an engine is producing particularly when it is only possible to measure at the road wheels instead of the flywheel. There are also too many variables in how the test is undertaken including how much air is being blown at the car, which is rarely sufficient and the temperature at the intake/intercooler.
As a precaution against engine damage, the PPP is designed to reduce boost if the intake temperature becomes too high and this occurs as soon as 40 degrees is achieved. This can occur for example whilst a vehicle is parked for no more than a few minutes, even when the ambient temperature is low. For example, in a 4 degree ambient the intake temperature can rise to 51 degrees after 11 minutes with engine merely idling. This could easily happen prior to a vehicle being rolling road tested unless it was being monitored properly to ensure everything had re-stabilised, otherwise the engine power data obtained is unrepresentative.
When our supplier undertakes tests on rollers the figures quoted for a Sti (302bhp/305ps) are consistently obtained but this is only after making absolutely certain everything is as it should be before commencing. If the intake temperature is too high, a Sti will typically provide indications of only 285bhp/290ps very easily. An owner is then of the impression that his vehicle is under performing!
If you receive a complaint of this nature, the owner should be in a position to provide a rolling road test data log. Should it be apparent that the test was carried out with intake temperatures at or above 40 degrees an owner should be advised why the test results show a lower output than anticipated.
.................................................. .........................................
21 January 2006, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by davedipster
Not a reply from Mike, but this might help explain things...
The PPP map looks at inlet tempuratures before the turbo, and ramps back the boost tagret if it gets hot. The std sti map and other re-maps do not use this safeguard.
...
Subaru
Technical Service Bulletin
Subject: PPP Tests
Model: Sti
We are becoming increasingly aware that owners of the above vehicles and others equipped with a PPP are taking their vehicles for a rolling road test and being advised of varying results on power output.
A rolling road test is very difficult to rely on to give an absolute figure of the output an engine is producing particularly when it is only possible to measure at the road wheels instead of the flywheel. There are also too many variables in how the test is undertaken including how much air is being blown at the car, which is rarely sufficient and the temperature at the intake/intercooler.
As a precaution against engine damage, the PPP is designed to reduce boost if the intake temperature becomes too high and this occurs as soon as 40 degrees is achieved. This can occur for example whilst a vehicle is parked for no more than a few minutes, even when the ambient temperature is low. For example, in a 4 degree ambient the intake temperature can rise to 51 degrees after 11 minutes with engine merely idling. This could easily happen prior to a vehicle being rolling road tested unless it was being monitored properly to ensure everything had re-stabilised, otherwise the engine power data obtained is unrepresentative.
When our supplier undertakes tests on rollers the figures quoted for a Sti (302bhp/305ps) are consistently obtained but this is only after making absolutely certain everything is as it should be before commencing. If the intake temperature is too high, a Sti will typically provide indications of only 285bhp/290ps very easily. An owner is then of the impression that his vehicle is under performing!
If you receive a complaint of this nature, the owner should be in a position to provide a rolling road test data log. Should it be apparent that the test was carried out with intake temperatures at or above 40 degrees an owner should be advised why the test results show a lower output than anticipated.
.................................................. .........................................
The PPP map looks at inlet tempuratures before the turbo, and ramps back the boost tagret if it gets hot. The std sti map and other re-maps do not use this safeguard.
...
Subaru
Technical Service Bulletin
Subject: PPP Tests
Model: Sti
We are becoming increasingly aware that owners of the above vehicles and others equipped with a PPP are taking their vehicles for a rolling road test and being advised of varying results on power output.
A rolling road test is very difficult to rely on to give an absolute figure of the output an engine is producing particularly when it is only possible to measure at the road wheels instead of the flywheel. There are also too many variables in how the test is undertaken including how much air is being blown at the car, which is rarely sufficient and the temperature at the intake/intercooler.
As a precaution against engine damage, the PPP is designed to reduce boost if the intake temperature becomes too high and this occurs as soon as 40 degrees is achieved. This can occur for example whilst a vehicle is parked for no more than a few minutes, even when the ambient temperature is low. For example, in a 4 degree ambient the intake temperature can rise to 51 degrees after 11 minutes with engine merely idling. This could easily happen prior to a vehicle being rolling road tested unless it was being monitored properly to ensure everything had re-stabilised, otherwise the engine power data obtained is unrepresentative.
When our supplier undertakes tests on rollers the figures quoted for a Sti (302bhp/305ps) are consistently obtained but this is only after making absolutely certain everything is as it should be before commencing. If the intake temperature is too high, a Sti will typically provide indications of only 285bhp/290ps very easily. An owner is then of the impression that his vehicle is under performing!
If you receive a complaint of this nature, the owner should be in a position to provide a rolling road test data log. Should it be apparent that the test was carried out with intake temperatures at or above 40 degrees an owner should be advised why the test results show a lower output than anticipated.
.................................................. .........................................
18 February 2006, 10:25 PM
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Hi Guys
Looking at the new 06 and had a test drive today.
Impressed but not as good as previous models i think. Now i would like to try 1 that gets a PPP fitted as i think then the car will be a cracker, i also heard that the PPP will be in 2 stages, Stage 1 and Stage 2, dont ask me what you get in each but i bet that it will be fun.
1 thing i didnt really like is the speed sensative steering, way to light at slow speed round abouts.
I also felt a big of a power surge at 5.5 rpm and was told that it would be down to the variable cam timming!!!
Cheers Dougie
Looking at the new 06 and had a test drive today.
Impressed but not as good as previous models i think. Now i would like to try 1 that gets a PPP fitted as i think then the car will be a cracker, i also heard that the PPP will be in 2 stages, Stage 1 and Stage 2, dont ask me what you get in each but i bet that it will be fun.
1 thing i didnt really like is the speed sensative steering, way to light at slow speed round abouts.
I also felt a big of a power surge at 5.5 rpm and was told that it would be down to the variable cam timming!!!
Cheers Dougie
Last edited by dougies549; 18 February 2006 at 10:29 PM.
19 February 2006, 05:54 PM
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if they have not done ppp yet i would think there not bothering.they need people to buy them never mind getting ppp packages.
adding 40 bhp or so should not be that difficult !!
and ive still not seen one on the road yet STI or WRX.
i have seen a standard saloon though.
surely a ecutec remap would be better anyway as it cannot be spotted by dealers .in that way you could map the car to your desire.
adding 40 bhp or so should not be that difficult !!
and ive still not seen one on the road yet STI or WRX.
i have seen a standard saloon though.
surely a ecutec remap would be better anyway as it cannot be spotted by dealers .in that way you could map the car to your desire.
Last edited by THOMO; 19 February 2006 at 06:02 PM.
19 February 2006, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeWood
mad555
Whilst I'm here, are there any products that we don't do, that we should do?
Regards
Mike
Whilst I'm here, are there any products that we don't do, that we should do?
Regards
Mike
Touch up paint for wheel nuts, so the polishers can keep them all lovely, even after removing wheels to clean calipers
A way of fooling the tracker satelite, hence keeping batteries charged
Lexus lights?
Big demand for these in the future. (sorry couldnt resist)Knocklink, if you dont do these you must be missing out big time
Finally an alliance with a french manufacturer to bring back a certain iconic hot hatch
Gary
19 February 2006, 06:37 PM
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Question for Mike and Iain Litchfield:
Am I right in thinking that you also need to be 100% sure you've got the package perfect, without overdoing it, ensuring that 6 months down the line the heavy-footed owner doesn't come back wanting a new engine?
Obviously, both of you had a lot of experience with the 2.0 and were comfortable releasing the packages fairly quickly. We all know that anyone can make the engine produce respectable figures. But how long that lasts is more of a concern when you have to pay for it when it goes wrong.
Jon.
Am I right in thinking that you also need to be 100% sure you've got the package perfect, without overdoing it, ensuring that 6 months down the line the heavy-footed owner doesn't come back wanting a new engine?
Obviously, both of you had a lot of experience with the 2.0 and were comfortable releasing the packages fairly quickly. We all know that anyone can make the engine produce respectable figures. But how long that lasts is more of a concern when you have to pay for it when it goes wrong.
Jon.
