Pixxie

ok this is what happend to my brother in law the other day- He wants to take them to court (on principle.. )

Police pulled him over, he didnt know why, and they claimed that he had jumped a red light,

Police were on the right side of the cross roads so not sure HOW they could call that one!!!

He disputes this- at worse said it may have been amber but DEF not red. So he said ok to the police- "i dont think i did but you must have it on camera in you car, show it to me,"
Police say- " ummm no, it's a new car and the camera isnt set up yet, but i am going to write you out a ticket- 3 points instantly"

He was carrying 5 other passengers who all agree there was no red light. Police have taken all their details also. Told my brother-in-law it was tough luck and if he wanted to dispute the matter he was to take it too court.

1 driver & 5 passengers all witnesses saying NO red light was jumped..
1 policewoman- with no visual evidence, who said it was.

What do you think his chances are??

and more importantly- has anyone ever challenged the police in court over something similar????


THANKS EVERYONEE!!!

ben1413

iTrader: (5)

Were there any traffic cameras/CCTV around that area. I know that some places monitor the traffic around busy junctions. Might be worth finding out.

Ben

anthscooby01

Similar thing happened to me bout five years ago. I went through just as light was changing to amber. No way I could stop as I was literally crossing light as it changed. I got pulled a mile down road by marked car who had been radioed by unmarked that had folllowed me thro lights. The unmarked was driven by a Superintendant according to PC and he told me to just accept 3 points as no way I would win in a court against such a high ranking 'officer'. Totally unfair but I just gave in. Wish now I had not as its not right that this guy was in fact judge and jury and a liar!!!. Take them on if u know he was right!!!

rossi_classicwrx

i find that strange as i was under the impression that there had to be 2 officers present to issue a traffic ticket unless there is further evidence such as video footage?.. I am studying law at the moment and can honestly say i wouldn't take the points if it happened to me..

Pixxie

Good point- thanks,

Pixxie

I cant be sure put i thought that if your a traffic policman/woman you can b on your own...at least they are on the telly anyway!!!

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Well i aint no expert but without visual evidence against you and four staunch witnesses i think you have a very good case. Take the b******s to court but make sure you have everything in order. i dont see how any judge can ignore the testimony of five people.

good luck

wall

I have ... twice.

1st time it was EXACTLY the same situation, but just 2 people in the car with me and two policemen. I very politely but firmly stated my innocence and indicated that I would pursue the matter in court ... after a few attempts at intimidation they surprisingly backed down and let me go.

2nd time I was done for speeding with a vascar system. By 3km/h I was going to lose my license, so I questioned immediately how well the calibration of the vascar had been done, and then showed up in court with the whole vascar manufacturer manual on how to calibrate the machine, ready to question the officer. His capitain at that point asks for a pause in the session, takes me to a side room, tries intimidation, then when I politely don't back down from wanting to question the officer on the calibration procedure he says:"ok look you just don't wont to lose your license, so how about we reduce the speed by 3km/h, you play guilty to that and pay the fine but don't lose your license, we all walk out friends. Or else if you give us too much sh17...". I agree, pay a fine for 3km/h less, keep my license.

Wall 2, Police going to court 0.

Just be very well prepared in your argument, backed up by sustained facts (eg. diagrams, manuals, photos, witnesses, etc), firm, polite.

nelboy75

tell him to take it to court definately.Very similar incident happened to me about 4 years ago.Marked police car behind me going through traffic lights when they changed.I got pulled over and the orificer,sorry officer,claimed that i jumped a red light and i would be very foolish to take it to court against himself as police never lose.Well this time they did,i made the officer to admit in court to dangerous driving,as i questioned how he was so sure it was my car that jumped the light supposedly.Said officer then brazenly told the magistrates that there was no question it was my car that jumped the lights as he was only 10-15 feet off my back bumper!!!!(IN THE RAIN!!!!),and he was positive it was my car.
HELLO???????? 10-15 ft off my bumper in the rain???????
Magistrates then openly questioned the officer(who NEVER loses in court),as to why he was driving so close to another vehicle(effectively forcing me through the traffic lights),and whether he was fit to be driving a motor car,never mind a police car!and promptly threw the case out of court,paying my costs and publicly humiliating the police driver
So morale of the story;Police officers words are not taken as the eleventh commandment in court as they like to think so!

stilover

If he knows he's right, then yes, go to court.

Like said above though, go prepared, be polite. Take his friends as witnesses. Although make sure they dress smartly, and not just like they're about to go skateboarding, while mugging an old granny with there baggy jeans half way down there ****.

Barmyclown

If the light had just gone to amber as you get to it, it is safer to go through than to jump on the brakes. This is what I was taught on my LGV a year ago , because braking hard to stop in time would constitute a greater hazard to the road users behind you. So you could get off on that point. If they really want to stop people going through on amber maybe they should employ the same system as they do in austria. Flashing green to warn you that the lights are going to change in around 30 seconds.

Jase

DEEDEE

Ask here Im sure you will get good advice

http://www.5ive-o.org/forum/index.php

warrenm2

Also get photos/video of the junction. Can the lights be seen from where the police were? Are there any other lights angled so that they can be seen from different directions? If they can then just take the points, if not go to court. Fight it if you think you can win it, otherwise just take it.

Apple

You could find out if the Police were up to their quota of stoppages / Producers for that period? Looking for a reason to stop someone to check all is above board etc...

I was stopped by three in a panda car after alledgedly jumping a red light. Firmly denied jumping light and eventually got a producer as they couldn't prove anything apart from "There's three of us and we say you did it"

ScoobySnack

If he's in the right fight it.........

Pixie - You say 1 driver + 5 passengers in the car, I hope if he goes to court the car is allowed to carry that many cant be a scooby

J

Pixxie

was in a ford galaxy

stilover

Then he deserves everything he gets.

DJ73

that's what i thought

has anyone got this book http://www.uk-driving-secrets.com/beat/?afl=18124

wall

Hi, I take that was in reference to my post? Well intimidation does not refer to beating me with a night stick you know ... they were simply strongly stating how to question the officer on the calibration and such I was just going to be a "trouble maker" and a "smarta$$" and that would not go down well with them nor the judge and that I was guilty and etc etc etc ...
Now read that how you want but for me to have the session halted and be in a side room with a capitain (I assume, don't know ranks at all) and two other policemen telling me the above and looking rather angry ... was kind of intimidating!

DaveR

Guys, as far as I recently read, the law states that going through a traffic light on AMBER is ALSO an offence. The only time you can go through on Amber is if stopping was likely to cause an accident (ie. there was a police car on your bumper lol ).

Nevertheless let's not get confused and think running Amber lights is not an offence - because it is. When approaching lights you should be slowing and expecting it to switch to amber - not going even quicker because you think it will turn amber !

just my 2 cents lol
DaveR

girl-in-a-scoob

had a friend take the police to court re speeding as they had the vehicles on tape but no record of the registration number on the recording. As there is no video evidence it would be worth taking it to court. Also the fact that she was on her own with no other witness goes in your favour. Get yourself a good solicitor... my friend won and got paid out over the matter.

rossi_classicwrx

I'll think you'll find that that was also illegal. I hope your solicitor was present during this meeting. If not then you could have had all the officers involved struck off and the case would have been thrown out.. Very unlikely for an event like this to happen but if it did then you were in a very strong position to get the case thrown out and the police in a very uncomprimising position

HowiesPreza

nice one!

A lad I knew took the police to court because they kept stopping him in his mini (classic) for no reason abart from the fact it was a mini. I had the same problem when I had my mini - nearly 100 producers in 9 months and never any points just the officers in Northumbria Police seem to like mini's! - i got rid of mine but he took them to court and won so couldn't stop him without a valid reason - he ain't had any problems since.

robprendersRB5

Contrary to waht was said it is not an offence to jump an amber, this is just good practice advised in the highway code... and the way we should all drive.
The offence is crossing the stop line when a red light is shown.
That said if your friend is adament he was right, then it will be hard for the police to prove, and you should get off.
The police also don't have quoters to fill, or play snooker.......

DonnieDarko

police dog count as an officer for some reason (otherwise they need two "human" police officers) - sounds like you got stopped by no human officers.

hope your bro's car has 6+ seats or he'd bether not take it to court.

John57

You don't need two officers to deal with someone for 99% of offences.

The only thing most people come across that needs corroboration - as opposed to necessarily a second officer - is speeding.

hostagewrx

As John57 states, only one cop needed unless for speeding and not using any equipment, problem that there is that the magistrates let everyone off, getting off at jumping a light (amber or red!!!!) is the same as rapists murderers and burglars getting off, its all the same principle.

As a cop its easier to prove driving without due care and attention than contravening a red traffic light.

Go to court, deny it and you will be clear, trust me, the courts never believe us cops!

cheers

Carl2

I wasn't told that when taking my LGV licences (seems common sense now) , but I was told when learning to drive a car that you should never do an emergency stop to brake in time for a red light as you would have to do when it changes just before you are going through.

I got behind some old biddy one day and she slowed allright. In fact she stopped dead on a green light. At any road speed, the light is going to change at a point for someone where it's not possible to stop in time without an emergency stop.

wall

I really wish you stopped implying I'm a liar ... ... I was representing myself, no solicitor. I had the idea of the calibration questioning and I tracked down a copy of the vascar manual: I felt there was no need for a solicitor ... and I was proven right as I avoided losing my license and saved the solicitor's fee
I had no idea frankly that they couldn't talk to me privately, but all worked out for the best anyway ... I played guilty to 3km/h less, did not question the officer on the calibration procedure (and possibly made him look like a fool as the factory requirements are very complex) so the police were happy they "won" the case, and I was extatic as I paid my fine but kept my license which was my objective.

rossi_classicwrx

Sorry bud wasn't insinuating that your a liar just that the police seemed to really stich themselves up when taken to court by you. To be honest i think they got let off very lightly and reckon they knew it!! But if everyones involved was happy with the result then all's good!!