DAVE-W

Been there and done that too mate.

I just payed the twenty quid cos in my experience if you take it to court and get off the coppers will only make sure they get you for something else later (also had experience of this in the family).

You can't beat em. (well rarely anyway)

David

Bright Kar

It is debatable whether the front fogs lights are actually not fog lamps but driving lamps. As such, it is not illegal to drive with driving lamps on at any time.

bkar

Jye

Yeah, I always thought they were driving lights, and as such could be used instead of the dipped beam in conditions of poor visibility, i.e. rain etc. I mean u dont exactly use dipped beam to see where u are going, its only for letting other road users know u are there.

Were the back fog lights on?

BarryK

They're not, they are fog lights.

This seems a bit like nicking a kid for riding his bike in the pavement. OK it is the law (and you might as well cough up) but it's a bit pathetic unless the opposite stream of traffic had all veered into the grass verge!

Write to your MP and your Scottish assembly equivalent and tell them what you would like them to do about it. Also contact your local police committee, not the police themselves, they're just doing a job like you and me. Sort of.

Sad to say sounding off will get you nowhere, but I know how you feel. You must delve into the bureaucracy and follow the "proper" channels. You must have seen "Yes, Minister"?

Dave T-S

Unfortunately the beam pattern of the std front fogs is just that - a fog pattern. They are designed to project a flat topped beam across the whole of the road width i.e. the other carriageway as well and have no right hand cutoff which is why they cause so much of a nuisance to people coming the other way.

This is not a criticism, just fact - I have driven with front fogs on (not Scoob) in bad conditions before (not rain) just so other road users can see me.

Unfortunately the Scoob front fogs are among the few that are semi efficient at what they are supposed to do rather than decorative and obviously Plod has got a bee in his bonnet about it.

Suggest you change to a PIAA driving lamp kit so won't happen again (which are also useful for "reminding" those that come in the opposite direction with their front fogs on three days after last fog he he!!)

sunilp

The police tried to prosecute me a few years back for "driving without due care and attention" and use of foglights in inappropriate conditions (or words to that effect). They had come up with the first charge by following me (4 cars back!)in my Mk2 Golf Gti up Leigham Court Road in Streatham (which is a single lane carriageway) AFTER i had been shunted by some idiot in a range rover in rush hour traffic. They claimed i was driving too close for the conditions (erm, 5mph crawling traffic) and felt more sympathy for the range rover driver than me (i'll leave you to draw your own conculsions as to the reason for that one).

They then said that they were also adding the charge of misuse of front fog lights.

Now, i had to go to court to defend this as i was potentially on the verge of losing my licence (or a 12mth ban). I got my solictior to write to the relevant police body and ask them to justify how they could see how far i was from the car in front in rush hour single lane straight road traffic from 4 cars back. They (CPS or whatever) wrote back within 5 days and dropped the charge of DWDC&A on grounds of "insufficient evidence".

They left the charge of the fog lights and i wasted a whole day off work to go to attend the case in Camberwell Court. The judge/magistrate, when i explained to him, that how could the police officers see my FRONT fog lights were on from 4 cars back, and that when they pulled me over my car was off meaning no lights were on, said "someone is wasting your time", he laughed and told me to go back to work!!!!!

In your case i would imagine 20 quid is less than a legal letter so best pay it and write it off otherwise you could lose time off work/income if you have to defend it, even succesfully, although i completely symathise with the "principle" element - imagine if i had not spoken to my solicitor when i did?

Just my two penneth worth

Alan McCaskie

Got stopped last night by the feds and given £20 fixed penanlty for the "misuse" of my foglights. Now I am not the kinda guy that drives through town on balmy summer evenings with the fog lights on to attract attention to my car. I genuinely had them on after coming through some fog in Kilmacolm around midnight last night. Pick up girlfriend at station, head back home. Watch police come out of junction and follow me - I go into petrol station, they drive past me in petrol station, give the car (and my girl) a good look and drive out again. My foglights were still on at this stage as engine still running.

Get the petrol, drive home. Pass the feds in Bridge of Weir and watch them follow me again. Now by this time alot of the mist has lifted so strictly speaking fogs should have been switched off. They follow me until I am just outside my house, then present me with a fixed penalty suggesting that I was dazzling other road users with the fogs. Now I have never been stopped in 13 years of driving, and that to me just smacks of over-zealous policing, a desire to reach a fixed monthly target on penalties, a lack of common sense (could have suggested the fogs be turned off as they ambled past in the service station)and traffic policeman who quite frankly must have been bored. Would they have stopped me in my girlfriend's Corsa? What d'you think!

Your choices are pay the fine and let these 2 very sad individuals think they have really brassed you off or challenge in in court. Now I know its only £20 but it's the principle of the bloody thing.

I'd appreciate any vies, experiences.

Cheers

Alan

johnfelstead

Yep, happened to me in mid wales on the RAC a couple of years ago.

I never drive with fogs on unless it is foggy as it dazzles other road users.

It was patchy fog, 100yards clear 100yards thick fog etc.

The *******s were sat in the 100yards clear and were pulling people all the time. They were sat there with the blues on in the middle of the road. I slowed to a crawl because i thought there had been an accident.
Nope, just stopping every body to knick em for fog lamps on.

Total extortion, a good chance to make a quick buck out of the english atending the rally. Made my blood boil. I payed up, dont have time for waisting a day in court and it was gonna cost me more in petrol to fight it, and they knew it!!

Lost all respect for the cops after that, if they ever need my help they can go shove it!!

IainT

I think the fixed penelty was a bit OTT in your circumstances, especially as they drove past you. A quick word would have sufficed.
However, people who drive with there front fogs on really **** me off, it happens a lot around here and is really blinding.
As for being seen, come on! haedlights (even scooby ones ) are the only option unless it is foggy , not misty, but foggy. If you have trouble seeing headlights only, then get your eyes tested.

IainT

oops double posted

[This message has been edited by IainT (edited 30 September 2000).]

PAS

iTrader: (4)

Yeah happened to me. I was coming out of Dave and Busters car park after having a quite night playing games, totally unaware of the car cruise going on (it wasn't happening when I went in. Police were at the carpark entrance when I went to go out, they must have thought I was there for the cruise seeing I was in the scooby. They pulled me, slapped a £20 fine for having fogs on. The police were just having a bad night, lots of abuse I imageine, so they decided to take it out on me.

Paul

Moss

It might be worth noting that last night on the A61, just outside Ripon a police traffic car passed me the other way with his fog lights on - front and rear!!! Maybe I should have flashed him or something?

CharlieWhiskey

I got pulled on New Years Eve (before I went to the pub!) because of this.

4:30-5:00 ish, dusk - fog had been thick on the A50 and I hadn't turned them off when I pulled off. Got breathalised, clear of course, and let off with a warning.

I think they were more interested in the Drink-Driving problem and were looking for excuses to pull anybody (3 more cars were also pulled behind me for some reason).

Guess I was lucky!

John: Those Welsh Plods have to do something to generate the money to pay their overtime every November ...
I sometimes find I knock the switches for the fogs, especially the rear
I keep meaning to move the switch or instal a beeper to warn me when they are switched on.

pslewis

I have been pulled over twice for having my 'foglights' on:-

What I do is this:-

Turn them off immediately - you should see thier faces when they come up to you and they are off .... you deny any knowledge of them being on and request that is written down in his notebook - also to be written in his book is the fact that at a closer inspection he confirms that they are indeed off - it can be argued very effectively that it is only on closer inspection that will reveal whether they are actually on .... the paperwork just isnt worth thier while (fixed ticket is easy ... the other way is NOT - and they dont like it up 'em)

Pete

sunilp

no, if you had flashed him you would have dazzled him and gotten prosecuted

Nick

Write to the Chief Constable at the area the police were from or from where the Fixed Penalty comes from if you already have it now. Explain the situation in complete truth & honesty. Explain your driving record. Suggest that the officers were being over-zealous & that a reminder from them for you to turn off the lights would have been more appropriate in this instance. Write the letter carefully & politely - no: why don't you catch proper criminals type of thing. There is a strong chance that the Fixed Penalty notice will be zapped.

UNLESS of course you did the bonkers thing of giving the coppers your driving licence which in effect admits your guilt - in which case you will have to pay up.

Steve_Yeowart

Not that I'm saying what they did was right as it had been foggy, but the greatest majority of cars out there with fogs on , use them regardless off weather conditions as some sort of status symbol, AND THEY ARE BLOODY ANNOYING WHEN THEY ARE COMING TOWARDS YOU OR APPROACHING FROM BEHIND, when i give them a flash with the rear fog light or full beam they make out like I am the one in the wrong!!

PS I believe the correct procedure is a warning for a first offence

jjones

Steve_Yeowart - i had that just yesterday - some prat in a cherokee behind me had fog lights blazing at dusk in perfect conditions. i flashed rear fog lamp quickly and was greeted by main beam. Tosser.

Alan, sorry m8 i have no sympathy, people who drive with either front or rear fog lights on in conditions that do not deem it necessary are a menace. Most of these people drive along at dusk with sidelights on and fog lights blazing thinking how great they look.
If it was a genuine mistake then hopefully the £20 fine will remind you to turn them off as soon as the conditions allow.

god i'm a miserable sod

jjones

Kevin2000

I was a little bit shocked to hear that police actually stopped you for having fog lamps on.For a start I believe that ones Subaru have fitted are absolutely useless and only work for a few feet and aint that powerful at all.And as is often the case customers come back in within a matter of days wanting them adjusted,always to point more upwards.I could understand them having stopped you for having the pro drive driving lamps on and following ten feet off there bumper.The police are just jealous of your car and yes, they are out to get you.
Regards
Kevo

DominicA

Can someone enlighten me please....

I have the PIAA kit on the RB5. Is this a driving lamp kit (i think so). So can I have this on all the time if i want??? and if so why do they wire it up so it only comes on with full beam??

Dom

RonaldoH

For exactly that Dom, they are driving lamps!

Ronaldo

Chris L

Dom

I would assume that the PIAAs fitted are driving lamps. The idea being that you only need these in conditions where visability is very poor (ie unlit roads).In this situation you would be using your full beam headlights and the PIAAs would provide supplementary lighting - hence the reason they are wired to come on with the full beam.

So the question is why would you want to use them all the time? I can't think of any occasion where in normal driving conditons you would need to use driving lamps. I would have also thought that because of the beam pattern they could even more dazzling than fog lights (probably another reason why they are wired to the full beam).

Based on what has been said already, I doubt whether the police would make a distinction between fog and driving lamps - if they consider that your lights are dazzling other road users I suspect that they would pull you over.

Chris

salsa-king

i got done £20 for the fog lamp thing, 2am boxing day morning (1999) nothing on the road other than the quat copper who appeared from nowhere and pulled me over.

that is why i wrote to Dick Grimes to ask him to put something in TRUEGRIP to make other SIDC members aware of the problem of using them when you don't need um on!so thats why there was the feature earlier this year in it.

pnebbs

Alan, I sympathise with you for being done in legitimate circumstances, but I'm afraid I wish the police would do more about people driving with their fog lights on! It really annoys me the numnber of idiots with their fogs on in good weather!

The worst offenders for rears are fords (for years they had a tiny warning lamp down on the bottom of the dash) and for front fog lamps the worst are BMW, Peugeot and Impreza drivers. Fogs are for just that - I.e driving in very bad visibilty, they give very little extra visibility in normal conditions (not much in the fog either) but do dazzle other drivers.

By law driving lights are only allowed to come on with main beam - driving lights are extremely dazzling!

PSLewis - why do you have your bl**dy fogs on in the first place??

Paul

KRIS

I have to agree with Pnebbs above.Would you leave your windscreen wipers on if it wasn`t raining ????........ well turn them off then when you dont need them.

K
p.s. Sunilp.....you deserved it

pslewis

PSLewis - why do you have your bl**dy fogs on in the first place??

Paul

-------------------------------------------
Because it was bl**dy foggy when they were put on - and forgot to switch them off !! is that simple enough for your brain cell - or is it its day off??

Pete

JayDee

I gotta say that I never use fog lamps - they are absolutely useless. I would also add that I personally have never found front fogs on an approaching car to be even mildly annoying, let alone dazzling (unlike xenon dischage lamps on dip).

However, rear fog lamps are unbelievably irritating. You just get this big red dazzle, making it impossible to see past to overtake.

But I have never heard of anybody prosecuted for leaving rear fogs on (Shoot me down in flames if I am wrong)

JD

Kevin2000

But a lot of Subaru Drivers I know have them on so when you come up behind some one they will know its a Subaru and pull over which they usually do and secondly the car looks better with them on.And I dont understand how you could be dazzled by them.Although I can very easily understand why you shouldnt have the PIAA lamps on especially if they are the 130 watt versions.

BarryK

OK, everyone write to your MP and demand legislation that makes fog lights automatically switch off above a certain speed (30?). If visibility means it is safe to drive that fast, then you don't need fog lights right? The technology is hardly ground breaking, now is it?

Problem solved.

Steve Howat

I only ever use mine when I'm driving down the lanes at night in conjunction with the main beam. They light up the sides quite nicely . Other than that they are bloody useless, even in fog, so whats the point . Oh yeah, I also use them to flash all the tossers that drive with them on permanantly (BMWs, Golfs, Renaults) .

Driving lights are for use with main beam only, hence why they should be wired in with the main beam. Whats the point with dipped 130w driving lights