CraigRA

Big brother is here

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/tra...icle334686.ece

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

Crazy Chick

Nosy b***ards!

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

I believe that we have been monitored (maybe not to this extent) for a long time now, the government must have found a good enough reason to go public on it now.

Big Brother has ben watching for a long time..!

sgcooby

Didnt read it all but its only a problem if your a criminal. Wont affect the lives of normal people so i couldnt care less. What does bother me is the eventual implementation of GPS speed detection so you are allways being monitored for what speed you are doing. If that comes into operation then that will be nightmare. Think they would have a bigger problem getting that one passed by parliment for approval though.

alloy

They can watch where I go , as long as they dont monitor how fast i get there

scoobydooooo

i think the privacy laws might come in to effect !! can you imagine that THEY know where you are , where you have been and how fast you go anywhere ! no thank you , time for a revolution mehtinks !!

CraigRA

This is the precursor to road charging on a national level and prosecuting speeding drivers automatically

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Expect to see a sharp rise in the number of cloned numberplates.

How would you feel if your plate was cloned and involved in a terrist attack, then you have the police and MI5 on your doorstep.

Not good.

Mrs_Moley_WRX

I dont want bent cops to know where i am thanks very much!!

Last year was bad enough having two cops follow me around and kept pulling me over for a 'friendly chat'

ru'

Noooooooooooooo! You've just told all the international terrorists and criminals how to get around the system! How totally irresponsible of you. The whole system is now made pretty much irrelevant for law and order, and can only be used for new charging proposals.

Whatever you do, don't mention cloning/forging the proposed new identity cards, or they will also be similarly useless for the purposes they're being sold to us for.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Just helping my Al Qaeda (sp) brothers!!!

Seriously though, why can't the government just come out and give us the real reason for doing this......it is just another way of them making real revenue.

If the reason is really to crack down on un-insured and un-licenced drivers then fair enough, but why do i think thats not the case.

StickyMicky

my number plates will be dirty

SiDHEaD

Mine are only velcro'd on. Unfortunately this can lead to them falling off

Nick Read

You don't think they'll stop there do you? Once they have a system whereby they can track you and your car whenever you make a journey? Why wouldn't they use it to work out average speeds from one camera to another and ban you from driving? That's a guaranteed money spinner.

Apart from that fact, yes it actually DOES affect you! Even though you may not be a 'criminal' it affects everyone's lives. It brings us one step closer to a surveillance society where everyone is presumed guilty unless they can prove their innocence. Where everyone you never want to hear from has the right to follow you, track you, know when you're at home or on the other side of the country, know where you get your petrol, where you shop, everything. No-one has the right to that information and having the attitude that 'it doesn't affect me so who cares' is what got us into this mess in the first place. Just because I'm not a criminal doesn't mean I want anyone knowing where I am or what I'm doing. That's my business and no-one else's. The only people who currently have no right to go where they want, when they want, are prisoners or those out on parole. If you're happy to be lumped in with them, then ask the police to put an electronic tag on your leg.

I'm not a slave or a prisoner. No-one has the right to know where I am, what I'm doing or where I've been within my own country. I am a skilled professional and a public servant and the day they bring this kind of surveillance in is the day I will start looking to work abroad. In fact I'm going to start now. I do not want to live in a country where the only way that 'crime' can be dealt with is by spying on everyone, all the time. It's evil. And I mean that seriously.

BTW ever since they announced that the US were going to start taking fingerprints of any foreign visitors, I swore that I would never go to the States again. It is sickening that they can presume that everyone coming to the US is a criminal and must be fingerprinted, yet no-one seems to be bothered by this. ANY kind of ID can be got round one way or the other, and the thought of the most powerful government in the world, run by the biggest idiot in the world, having anything about me on record makes me feel sick to my stomach.

GC8

Would they like to stick a chip up my **** too?

si97

i always take salt and vinegar with my chips

corradoboy

Been heavily discussed HERE and initially brought to our attention in THIS article. I am already in discourse with the Home Office, who have assured me that the system has no intentions to being used for speed monitoring and that they are in full compliance with civil rights and liberty laws I may, unbeknown to myself occasionally have a foil crisp packet blow on and stick to my number plate in future. I also may consider buying a car from another country, or swapping my vehicle with someone I don't know. I could pay cash for one and never bother registering my new details, and give the seller false ones. But what I really want to do is just leave this $h!thole of a country 2-5 years to get my new business doing well and the mortgage clear and then goodbye, hopefully I'll be joined by all the other hard working, law abiding decent members of society whom object to this fascist control, leaving Britain the dregs of society decaying into anarchy.

GC8

I do not wish to be rude; but the people seeking to impose this fascist ****e upon us rely on this sort of halfwitted apathy.

"it doesnt affect you if you havent done anyhting wrong" is one of the most dangerous refuges that I can imagine...

At what point exactly will you start to worry? When all newborn children are fingerprinted perhaps? Maybe when all adults are compulsarily fingerprinted and DNA sampled? Would you mind if your childrens DNA was sampled at birth; after all, they come from a decent family so why need you worry? ID cards are quite low-tech no matter how theyre spun, you can lose them or leave them at hone. Ideally we should all have a chip implanted just under our skin like my friends dog (handy for 'claiming benefits or receiving NHS treatments' -thats was the ****e that they trotted out wasnt it?-). That will be better than tattooing a barcode on our necks and the Police can scan us whenever they like. Only people with something to hide need fear this

The means is not justified by the end; think about what that means. The loss of privacy and freedom can not ever be justified by the positive outcome of actions such as this. We live in a free society remember?


Simon

corradoboy

I urge all of you who are appaulled by this prospect, PLEASE, write to your MP (CLICK here to locate yours) or directly to clarkec@parliament.uk (Charles Clarke) to voice your opposition of this fascist, draconion breach of human rights.

legb4rsk

If you are going to discuss any new government 'initiative' or legislation you only have to ask why would they bother to spend money if they don't foresee a return on 'revenue'.

Also they set up these expensive 'enterprises' using all or some of our money & then sometime in the future privatise 'the scheme'.

Guess who becomes an executive director of said company? .....well it ain't gonna be me or you is it!

andyr

"... only a problem if your a criminal. Wont affect the lives of normal people ..."
Who is determining what 'normal' is ?
Maybe if you were to be someone that disagreed with the current government ? Or if the authorities believe that you are in some way a threat to society : you had sent correspondance to your MP stating your disagreement with the Government's policy on something ? You participated in an anti-war march or supported fox hunting (just 2 things that the New Labour wants to/has already forced through parliment.
The ability for the authorities to monitor everyone's movements is, IMHO, a VERY BAD THING.
The growth of CCTV cameras has crept in and we now seem to accept it : I wonder if, when their installation was at their infancy, we'd have been happy to accept the fact that in a city such as London you could be captured on CCT cameras up to 300 times per day !
The UK has 4,000,000 CCTV cameras. In countries such as Germany and Canada street cameras is banned. Not here : we just lie down and take it.
Article here : http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1421

Kroy

Could be good if it stops car theft. Don't want enyone knowing my movements though, W**kers!!!

Bet car insurance premiums won't be cut though!!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

When will they learn?

Technology will never bring law and order....
We need PHYSICAL enforcment, and tough punishments to deter.

If I were a criminal, all I need is a car where I haven't bothered filling in the V5, or simply use a fake number plate, and bang goes this multi-million investment - Where the only viable use for this system thereafter is to catch kids, stupid criminals, and persecute the general good law abiding public who slightly speed, park on a double yellow for 5 seconds to drop off a letter and who forgot their MOT expired yesterday.

johnfelstead

Whilst you have people updating the ANPR databases, and people isuing ANPR based stop warants with incorect or missing information, you will have unlawful detention by the police of inocent, law abiding citizens, traumatising those citizens as they are stoped and arested by police armed with wholy inacurate information thinking the worst about them. (use your imagination!)

These citizens will then be subjected to arest in front of their peers, handcuffed, transportation in a caged van, detention for hours in a police cell, thier vehicle will be towed to a police garage where it will be subject to inspection, they will then be subjected to digital fingerprinting, samples of their DNA will be taken, mug shots will be taken, all of which will be placed on the national police records database.

Should you be arested via an ANPR stop, you can not refuse to have these samples taken, should you refuse they are taken by force. This happens even if you are not charged with any offence.

ANPR based stops leading to wrongful detention are being carried out at present, when the system goes national there will be a huge increase in false arrests, which as a byproduct will masively increase the amount of data held on inocent people.

Inteligent policing, my ****.

sgcooby

I take exception to your 'non rude statement about me being halfwitted. I think you will find in my post I am concerned about the speed monitoring aspects and am only not bothered by the use of cameras for other more serious crime prevention which could actually benefit us all. Well the innocent non criminal ones anyway. I think all the rants about the facist state is a bit OTT. Chill out ffs. DNA sampling lol, youve taken that too far sir.

andyfish

This is very disturbing. This is a nightmare. Write to your MP......nobody wants to be told 'I told you so'

£24m spent on equipment this year alone, and that's before the officers are paid to administer the system. How many extra coppers would that pay for?

andy

Nick Read

Wasn't my comment, but I don't think anyone here's saying that you're some kind of idiot, so apologies if that's the impression you got. For some people, including me and (thankfully!) a fair few on this thread, this IS a serious matter and the way that our rights and our liberties are gradually eroded are by this very process. The only way that this happens is through general apathy - people who (innocently enough) don't want to get involved or don't think it concerns them. It starts in small ways and gradually the net spreads ever wider and wider. To the man in the street the idea of tracking 'criminals' around the country is a good one. But that's ignoring the historical fact that it never DOES stop there. It's not exaggeration to call our New Labour government fascists IMHO. Thank God there are other people out there who see it as well. Look at the way the war in Iraq was pushed through - against the explicit wishes of millions of British citizens who are supposedly democratically represented by their MPs. I don't want to get into that argument, but the fact that so many people were so clearly against it means it was an act of supreme government arrogance for our country to be sent to war anyway. Look at fox hunting. Now I'm personally anti-hunting for various reasons, but it was not done the right way. I was never asked whether fox-hunting should be banned. Nor was anyone I know. It was just decided by Labour Party HQ because they thought they knew best. That is NOT democracy! I might disagree with fox-hunting but I don't want a centuries old British tradition banned on the whim of a Labour government! It's NOT their decision to make. It's ours, the people.

Fascism isn't just about white supremacists and nationalism, it is fundamentally a system whereby the government decides that they know best and joe public just does what he's told. If you disagree, you are silenced by whatever means necessary - ignored, arrested, imprisoned, made to disappear. This has happened time after time in history, and it always started with a few authoritarian ideas pushed through to tackle 'crime' or 'immigration' or 'unemployment' or 'terrorism'. Whatever is the popular fear at that particular time. ID cards and arrest without proper justification are the latest in a gradually worsening erosion of our freedom to do what we want as long as we're not harming anyone else by our actions. Traditionally Britons have only carried identification during war time. We are not, whatever Labour might try to pretend, at war.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

The police, govt etc always target the majority (you & I) rather than the minority (hardened criminals etc) who are more difficult if not impossible to catch. The majority get caught for petty stuff like illegal parking, speeding etc whilst the minority get away with using cloned plates, stolen vehicles, commit murders, supply drugs etc & are rarely caught ... it's just too time consuming for the police. The stuff noted above will no doubt be useless against the minority & yet again will be used to scr3w the rest of us! I'll be protesting as suggested above.

TX.

flynnstudio

GPS will never happen IMO...

Mandatory GPS in car speed tracking would totally kill ALL foreign car industry in Britain not to mention grind the roads to a halt and result in EVERY SINGLE DRIVER getting a 'cumulative' points ban within about 2 years - even old ladies. For those reasons I don't think it'll ever happen.
I really don't see how any car company could stay in business in this country without being able to sell hi-passion cars. Certainly a serious number of luxury high-performance small volume manufacturers would pull out of the uk forever - and the turnover of 'crap' new cars would also just plummet as the 'desirability' factor of a new car would be absolutely zero.

At the worst the roads will be chocker with people doing drag starts 0-60 all day long - it'll be mayhem!

I suppose they then may as well issue us all with a '500cc New Labour Britcar' paint them all a dull flat grey colour and issue us with grey driving smocks and our annual 2000 'personal miles' 'electronically goverened' distance rations at the same time.
I say we petition to the other extreme and make hi-speed driving mandatory. To enter the fast lane on the motorway you must be doing at least 100mph and have a vehicle capable of 170mph!!