DJB

I don't understand this b******t about understeer. My MY98 never understeers (except on wet roundabouts when I'm driving badly).
Am I driving too slowly?
Or is my scoob different from the norm?
If I do overcook it on a corner, I tend to get slight oversteer. I have had an Impreza since 1995 so maybe driving style has got something to do with it.

D.

R19KET

Jason,

Shame you didn't find this site sooner. Understeer is VERY common, but can be rectified in a number of ways.

I assume the geometry has been checked, but the dealers tend to run too little neg' camber. Some find that 1.25deg' solves the problem, but I, amongst others run far more (2.5deg) but this will wear the inside edges if you do a lot of motorway miles.

A good suspension set up should also work, but the geometry still needs to be done. I don't know about the AVO kit, what spring rates they use, or if the ride height can be adjusted. Adding weight to the front (as Leda suspension do) will also help.

A company called Power Station offer a full geometry service, including sorting the bump steer out. Whilst I haven't tried it, those who have swear by it (£100 'ish).

Tyre pressures are critical, play with them, and find which suit best.

Lastly, I can only say that the Scooby driver you "met", either wasn't "up for it", or lacked your driving ability. I think it would be worth coming along to a trackday (Brands in a few weeks) and going out with a few owners. Then you'll understand what I mean

Mark.

H

Isn't it Impreza? :confused

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

What understeer?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Hi Jason,
I take it this is the first time you have driven a AWD car, the one thing you cant do is drive it like a front wheel car, its impossible it wont handle the same, ive had some nice performance cars before, the last 2 both being pug 306 gti-6's and they were the dogs to drive, fantastic engine sound and great grip but the scoob is just one leap beyond them I have never driven a car as hard or thrown one into a corner as much as the scoob, i dont know what is wrong with yours but mine (4dr uk turbo) is definately alot better than any 2wheel drive car i have driven
having the car slide is all apart of the fun, you will notice if you go into a corner, braking hard just before, the tail twitches, its fun, its also a fantastic drivers car as any of the people on here will say.
The only advice i have for you is give aintree racing a ring near you and get them to take you round in the scoob, they will give you a whole day in them if you want, learn how it feels and handles (for a small cost of around 300 quid plus 1k for insurance if you use their cars)
Have fun driving your scoob but learn how to drive and have confidence in a AWD car!!!!

GranTurismo

I altered the tracking and that sorted it all out, I diddnt even set it that agressivley.

Also 4wd cars handle differently to front or rear. An elise will oversteer badly if you have to lif in a bend (my mate did a lovley 360 at castle coombe!)

YOU JUST NEED TO DRIVE THEM PROPERLY!

Moss

Jason, just like to point out the car in Top Gear ( I think you meen Driven) you refer to was and Outback (Legacy) with considerably raised ride height and more rear overhang = oversteer. I am almost certainly sure that most motoring press slate the Cavalier's handling (Koni or not)? So the Impreza driver must have been asleep! Give me a lowly Impreza GL and I'll out handle any one of them there Vauxhall thingys!
Serious point though, like others have said driving an AWD car takes a bit of getting used to (practise). Tell bro to get some miles under his belt - fast!

Moss

[This message has been edited by Moss (edited 29 September 2000).]

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Is it April 1st?.....or am I missing something!

Sith

This has to be a wind up! I had a Cav GSI and would take it to the limit. The Scoob easily passes this limit.

P.

sickboy

what is bump steer please?

subverbal

I've had both a standard Cav and an Astra GTE16v. Both amazing cars for the money, virtually nothing on the road these days could touch the GTE performance wise, dry handling was excellent if a tad firm on uprated springs. I looked into getting either a 944S2 or a Scoob and went for the latter.
The Scoob by far outshines the GTE handling wise wet and dry. Not even remotely close. The power of the car is so much more useable too.

To make my Scoob understeer you'd have to be going seriously fast on normal roads.
Trackday use is another matter, I had both understeer and oversteer in equal measures depending upon the corner. Turn in with the brakes on and you'll get huge controllable oversteer, also means you can brake a tad later.

Personally, I wouldn't want oversteering tendancies on a road car - sorry for not being trendy but I like to drive fast safely without worrying where the grip limit is. My mate has a 944S2 which is an amazing handling car in the dry but you can't push it safely in the wet.

Neil.

JasonM

Brother brought a new Impretza (standard uk 5dr) thinking it was the dogs, and was very disappointed. The power was incredible but the handling was poor. In short he found it understeered like hell.

First thing he did was change the wheels to some 17" ones and fit some Pirelli PZeros. This stops a lot of the 4-wheel drift, but was still not right.

Then he got a 2k ProDrive suspension kit (fitted my prodrive) and found that this helped very little. After 4 months he eventually got ProDrive to admit it was wrong and got his money back. This was only after threading to advertise it's results in the same magazine they use!

He then got a Avo Competition suspension kit fitted, and this was much better. However it is still not right, and finds out of corners the rear slides. It’s also has poor derivability, tramlines, and difficult to get a true feel for what happening on the limit in corners.

In short he spent 26k on this car, and wishes he never seen the thing.

The other weekend I was in my Koni Fitted Cavalier (yes Cavalier) and a Scooby driver came tearing up from behind on some B roads to Chester. I was entering a fast stretch of corners, and decided to put my foot down. Was doing 90+ out of some corners and completely lost the Impretza. He driver simply could not stay with me. And that’s in a 136bhp Cav!

Also did you see that thing on top gear about them over steering!

So what’s going on people, why do Impretza drivers repeatedly say that handle top when the evidence, and what I’ve seen, suggest they handle so bad.

Can anyone shed any light?

JasonM

SimonM

Jason could be right... maybe Impretzas do have poor handling... I don't know as I have never driven one. I drive an Impreza which I beleive handles fine

SimonM

[img]http:\www.evosix.f9.co.uk erzo.jpg[/img]

P.S. All those motoring magazines must be lying then when they Subaru Imprezas handle well


[This message has been edited by SimonM (edited 29 September 2000).]

martyrobertsdj

iTrader: (1)

I was recently looking at information about anti-lift kits and the benefits of fitting them, so I looked around the internet at the wealth of information available regarding Imprezas and the "handling" thereof.

Basically, the general jist was that the Impreza is basically a car with average "handling", but LOADS of grip which makes up for it's shortcomings.

The fact is, the Impreza does understeer quite a lot, but that is because it is designed to. Understeer is built in to most cars as a safety net, so that Joe Public doesn't suddenly reach the limits of the cars handling and then fly off the road into the nearest ditch/wall/hedgeback.

The understeer gives a warning of the impending limit and most people slow down!!!

The anti-lift kits change the geometry of the front suspension and help to reduce the understeer. I think it works by changing the radius at which the hub pivots around the radius arms. I'm sure someone can correct me!!!

I fitted one and .....yes.....less understeer!! The front end is much sharper now, but quite a bit stiffer. I don't know if this is because of the geometry change, or whether it's the poly' bushes used in the kit, but it is noticeably stiffer....especially on speed humps and other sharp dips/bumps.
All in all though....better!!!

Marty

theotherphil

BOB.T

wide

Got to be honest Ive had other cars that have felt better than the scoob, like my ol mk 2 gti and I had a focus hire car in spain the other week, which i gave some stick and it was good fun very impressed

pflowers

You've got to be joking ! I have a Focus Zetec hire car at the moment while they sort my gearbox out, and the handling is terrible. It does not feel bad at low speeds but press on and It is bordering on dangerous.

The car mags rate them well, but I am sorry it must be backhanders from Ford cos my MPV handles better !

GC8

"Was doing 90+ out of some corners and completely lost the Impretza. He driver simply could not stay with me. And that’s in a 136bhp Cav!"

On a public road in a f*cking Cavalier? What a *****!

16vmarc

Mine handles brilliantly

pum

mine used to under steer when i got it but a m8 of mine work's for the subaru main dealer and said to have the 4 wheel laser aline done on it to the prodrive p1 setting's and what a diffrence it make's next to no under steer and just a little over steer which make's it great fun in the wet!!

Sprint Chief

Why not come to North Weald Airfield in a couple of weeks time? We've got a short sprint course, about 2kms with tight and sweeping bends, max straight is around 300 metres, arranged and a few imprezas coming along, all professionally timed, and we'll show you exactly how much BS this claim contains?

Click here to link to thread

bighead

iTrader: (1)

same here lol

dij

Ive had and been in a few scoobs,all handle better than most sporty cars.
i dont understand when people complain about the handling on an Impreza,it grips in the wet and dry.

Got me going for a bit when Tony Burns said he drives a UK turbo,then I read the date,hucking fell this thread is old.

16vmarc

Has anyone mentioned, they dont handle well they just have loads of grip yet FPMSL

explore

?? why would you change 17" for 17" the new impreza's have 17" std and the std wheel will be lighter than most aftermarket wheels. do you even know what your talking about, im thinking your just some sad little boy from a vauhall forum.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Maybe this guy just cant drive?
Instead of spending all that dosh on mods, why get advanced driver coaching. I guarentee that when his car started to understeer, he just cranked on more lock? oh no, its still understeering! der!
Also, give us a break on the cavalier kicking a scoobs backside! Believe it when I see it> which I wont cause it just aint happening. Or maybe the scoob driver just wasnt in the mood to hurtle round blind corners and breakneck speeds just to wipe the smile of your spotty face? Sorry, I'm rambling on, what were you saying?

surfer boy

Go to agree with the last guy - any car will hurtle round a blind bend at 90mph but who would want to. I like to drive quick but never 'play' with other drivers. Even the Police stopped pursuits in some counties as they almost always pushed the bandit into a crash as they increased speeds to unsafe levels. Road racing is a dangerous game and always has the potential to end in tears! The Impreza does have astonishing grip and will corner faster than any two wheel vehicle but needs some understeer as a warning other wise everyone would end up upside down in fields. I did a skid course where I drove 2 wheel and 4 wheel drive cars around in circles slowly building up speed. At about 40mph the front wheel drive car would lose the back end and just slide round the circle (which was nice), where as the 4 wheel drive would happily do 50+mph on the same diameter, but when it hit 55 was on the grass (less fun). A useful lesson. I reckon the original mail is bogus or just a daft driver.

555 Markus

LOL, I remember this from when I first joined scoobynet . Another cracker from JasonM2 was this http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...0&page=1&pp=20

Enjoy!

martyrobertsdj

iTrader: (1)

Heh Heh Heh!!!!

Just been and had a look at the earlier thread!!!! LOL

To add my "ten penneth's worth"................

I've had cars since 1984 and have always tweaked and messed about with them. Included in the line up have been a couple of Cavalier Sri's, one with Koni and one with Spax suspension kits.

Yes, they did handle pretty well...........for Cavaliers.

I had a Renault 5 GT Turbo with uprated suspension components back in 1989 and that could be thrown about like a go-kart.

However......I now have a 1998 Impreza Turbo wagon and I can confidently say that it would eat the Cavaliers and the Renault for breakfast.
It did understeer quite a bit when I first got it, but no more than your average "performance" front wheel drive car.
The Impreza now has 17" wheels with 215/40 tyres, Eibach springs and Whiteline drop-links and anti-lift kit. 4 wheel alignment has been done too.

The "handling" has been transformed and there's much less understeer. The front end feels much more "planted" and gives better feedback.

Grip has never been a problem!!!

All cars can be made to handle (well..maybe not a Ssangyong Musso)...just look at the British Touring Car Championship over the last decade or so.
Cavaliers, Mondeos, 3-Series BM's, Volvo's..........you just have to spend enough money!!!!

Oh yeah.......I also had a Capri 2.8i Special (with LSD, uprated front springs, lowered, uprated rear leaf springs and Yokohama A008 tyres)
Contrary to popular belief, it actually handled quite well and could hustle along nicely......until it rained!!!!!!! LOL

Marty