5th Gear 'Vmax' Runs
13 April 2005, 11:59 AM
#1
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5th Gear 'Vmax' Runs
Did anyone see 5th gear with the 2mile Vmax runs - There was a P1 there - does anyone know how fast it got - or if there is a web site with the results?
13 April 2005, 12:13 PM
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Yep, I saw this and also noticed an Sti8.
Dont know any of the times etc but think there is more of this to come on 5th Gear as they didnt get to run their Lotus.
Dont know any of the times etc but think there is more of this to come on 5th Gear as they didnt get to run their Lotus.
13 April 2005, 12:40 PM
#3
Genuine question here
Are scoobs safe doing runs like that though? I keep hearing of blow ups after a high speed run so I tend to avoid doing high speed runs (5th gear stuff on dual carriageways etc) for more than about 30 seconds to keep my engine in one piece.
Am I just being too cautious?
Are scoobs safe doing runs like that though? I keep hearing of blow ups after a high speed run so I tend to avoid doing high speed runs (5th gear stuff on dual carriageways etc) for more than about 30 seconds to keep my engine in one piece.
Am I just being too cautious?
13 April 2005, 12:47 PM
#4
The speeds they were doing were upwards of 170, so it would require some mods to achieve that.
If they were trying to go as fast as possible I think anyone would probably be prepared for something going wrong, and I guess occasionally they do go wrong. Trying to say that a normal Subaru can quite happily go over 170 and you do not expect anything to go wrong ever, you have to be a bit naive. 5th Gear didn't actually make to the track before something went wrong for them (gearbox)!
But that's different to a normal situation or even a normal track day (where there are varying lower speeds).
If they were trying to go as fast as possible I think anyone would probably be prepared for something going wrong, and I guess occasionally they do go wrong. Trying to say that a normal Subaru can quite happily go over 170 and you do not expect anything to go wrong ever, you have to be a bit naive. 5th Gear didn't actually make to the track before something went wrong for them (gearbox)!
But that's different to a normal situation or even a normal track day (where there are varying lower speeds).
Vmax.
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13 April 2005, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by paulpalmer
Genuine question here
Are scoobs safe doing runs like that though? I keep hearing of blow ups after a high speed run so I tend to avoid doing high speed runs (5th gear stuff on dual carriageways etc) for more than about 30 seconds to keep my engine in one piece.
Am I just being too cautious?
Are scoobs safe doing runs like that though? I keep hearing of blow ups after a high speed run so I tend to avoid doing high speed runs (5th gear stuff on dual carriageways etc) for more than about 30 seconds to keep my engine in one piece.
Am I just being too cautious?
13 April 2005, 05:03 PM
#10
The speeds look low. Must have been a very strong head wind.
I recorded 170 odd mph at Elvington @ 1.25mls two years ago. (Scooby Shootout 2003). Halldor's car did 176mph from memory at TOTB last year over the same distance. Bruntingthorpe is quite a bit longer and you have a 70 mph run on to the long straight. My speeds there have been in the 180s with the STi Wagon but not verified with independant test gear. TheWRX Wagon which is nothing particularly special has done 161mph same place after I raised the rev limit. Same car has slips for Elvington at 160 mph @ 1.25 mls and sits close to the rev limit for the last 300 yards.
Both cars have non standard gearing to get these speeds.
I recorded 170 odd mph at Elvington @ 1.25mls two years ago. (Scooby Shootout 2003). Halldor's car did 176mph from memory at TOTB last year over the same distance. Bruntingthorpe is quite a bit longer and you have a 70 mph run on to the long straight. My speeds there have been in the 180s with the STi Wagon but not verified with independant test gear. TheWRX Wagon which is nothing particularly special has done 161mph same place after I raised the rev limit. Same car has slips for Elvington at 160 mph @ 1.25 mls and sits close to the rev limit for the last 300 yards.
Both cars have non standard gearing to get these speeds.
13 April 2005, 10:46 PM
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hi harvey!
brunters is actually about the same useable length as elvington as i understand it, as you cant use all the runway at brunters as around 3000 cars and vans are parked at one end. we run 1.2miles at totb to give loads of room for braking, theres about 1.7miles useable from a standing start and 2 miles using the bends!
brunters is actually about the same useable length as elvington as i understand it, as you cant use all the runway at brunters as around 3000 cars and vans are parked at one end. we run 1.2miles at totb to give loads of room for braking, theres about 1.7miles useable from a standing start and 2 miles using the bends!
13 April 2005, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by paulpalmer
Genuine question here
Are scoobs safe doing runs like that though? I keep hearing of blow ups after a high speed run so I tend to avoid doing high speed runs (5th gear stuff on dual carriageways etc) for more than about 30 seconds to keep my engine in one piece.
Am I just being too cautious?
Are scoobs safe doing runs like that though? I keep hearing of blow ups after a high speed run so I tend to avoid doing high speed runs (5th gear stuff on dual carriageways etc) for more than about 30 seconds to keep my engine in one piece.
Am I just being too cautious?
i think that the cars that did blow up from the horror, would have blown up anyway, well thats my thinking on the subject
13 April 2005, 11:03 PM
#16
Brunters is about 1.5 mile useable straight.
Top speed run over 1.25miles at Elvington on sundau I hit 177.4 mph and still climbing, unfortunately after repairing a snapped driveshaft, I then had a valve head break of and wreck the engine, it still managed 172mph on 3 clylinders though!
Paul
Top speed run over 1.25miles at Elvington on sundau I hit 177.4 mph and still climbing, unfortunately after repairing a snapped driveshaft, I then had a valve head break of and wreck the engine, it still managed 172mph on 3 clylinders though!
Paul
13 April 2005, 11:50 PM
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Remember Ultima's are available as kits. It is quite possible to bolt in a knackered old 165bhp 3.5 Rover V8. With weight under a tonne, if the handling is set up right, it would still beat most scoobs round a track, but straight line wouldn't be spectacular. However, many ultima's run small block chevvy V8s in various states of tune, still under a tonne. IIRC, the factory demonstrator was a little over 600bhp. I have a video of it doing 0-100-0 in 10 seconds flat (no ABS either - I make the 0-100 time to be a fraction under 6 seconds) I think that is a record, I certainly consider it quick.
In answer to the scoobs at sustained high speed, I believe (but would never claim claim to be an expert) that there is an issue where the sustained high speed can cause slightly worn oil pressure regulators to stick open. Therefore, as soon as you stop, no oil pressure, gives a big problem. There may be other issues.
Paul - shame about the engine
However, nice one until that point. 
In answer to the scoobs at sustained high speed, I believe (but would never claim claim to be an expert) that there is an issue where the sustained high speed can cause slightly worn oil pressure regulators to stick open. Therefore, as soon as you stop, no oil pressure, gives a big problem. There may be other issues.
Paul - shame about the engine
However, nice one until that point.
15 April 2005, 02:12 PM
#22
Chris: Bruntingthorpe is longer as Paul says and there is a run off area/bend to the right just like Elvington. I will ask for the full course measurements when I am there next.
LOL @ the loads of room bit.
Adam: The problem is not getting higher top speeds, (with the correct/adequate gearing) but getting these speeds in the distance available. ie 1.25mls.
we run 1.2miles at totb to give loads of room for braking
Adam: The problem is not getting higher top speeds, (with the correct/adequate gearing) but getting these speeds in the distance available. ie 1.25mls.
15 April 2005, 03:02 PM
#23
Harvey,
1st top speed run was with more conservative map, det cans (pipe inside helmet) and about 0.2bar less in 5th gear. All was normal on that so upped the ante a little for the latter run (with about 3 drags in between) then it went bang.
I need to get it onto the rollers to map it properly IMHo, or at least get someone else to drive it while I do it on the road but I really don't like doing on the road it at the silly speeds required. Bruntingthorpe would be a good bet for mapping.
Paul
1st top speed run was with more conservative map, det cans (pipe inside helmet) and about 0.2bar less in 5th gear. All was normal on that so upped the ante a little for the latter run (with about 3 drags in between) then it went bang.
I need to get it onto the rollers to map it properly IMHo, or at least get someone else to drive it while I do it on the road but I really don't like doing on the road it at the silly speeds required. Bruntingthorpe would be a good bet for mapping.
Paul
15 April 2005, 03:30 PM
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I've had 153mph (over 160mph on the speedo) vmax at Brunters from my slightly tweaked STi8 - which isn't difficult at all if you have the benefit of a rolling start and hitting the bottom bend at 50mph and then coming on to the straight for a 1.5m blast...
... However, looking at the footage from 5th Gear, I think they were all doing a standing start at the bottom of the runway and then using the timing gear about two-thirds of the way along the strip - probably just over a mile into it, to allow for some braking room before the top bend.
150+ from a standing start there, isn't bad at all.
[Edited to add the following]
Having said the above, I've just looked at the speed/time graphs on the results page here http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ohare/vmax.htm#h3 which clearly shows a start along the back straight, and the braking for the bottom bend before starting the vmax run. So - a real 150mph should be easy in a moderately tuned Scoob...
Shades
... However, looking at the footage from 5th Gear, I think they were all doing a standing start at the bottom of the runway and then using the timing gear about two-thirds of the way along the strip - probably just over a mile into it, to allow for some braking room before the top bend.
150+ from a standing start there, isn't bad at all.
[Edited to add the following]
Having said the above, I've just looked at the speed/time graphs on the results page here http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ohare/vmax.htm#h3 which clearly shows a start along the back straight, and the braking for the bottom bend before starting the vmax run. So - a real 150mph should be easy in a moderately tuned Scoob...
Shades
Last edited by MrShades; 15 April 2005 at 03:38 PM.
15 April 2005, 04:26 PM
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i read that over a certain speed the scoop on the scoobs is ineffective, as the air basically bounces off rather than going into the intercooler...
Thats why they're more succptible to knock/overheating at v. high speed...
Thats also why the evo is better (in this respect before i get flamed)- the front mounted intercooler doesnt have the same problem..
and perhaps i believe why an evo style intercooler is a popular mod...
Could all be barlacks tho....
Dan
Thats why they're more succptible to knock/overheating at v. high speed...
Thats also why the evo is better (in this respect before i get flamed)- the front mounted intercooler doesnt have the same problem..
and perhaps i believe why an evo style intercooler is a popular mod...
Could all be barlacks tho....
Dan
15 April 2005, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam M
was there a silver ferrari 550 in the line up?
if so, I have a feeling we all know the owner.
if so, I have a feeling we all know the owner.
There was a few former GTR members there. In fact the Ruf Porsche is owner by one of them
15 April 2005, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by harvey
Chris: Bruntingthorpe is longer as Paul says and there is a run off area/bend to the right just like Elvington. I will ask for the full course measurements when I am there next.
LOL @ the loads of room bit.
Adam: The problem is not getting higher top speeds, (with the correct/adequate gearing) but getting these speeds in the distance available. ie 1.25mls.
LOL @ the loads of room bit.
Adam: The problem is not getting higher top speeds, (with the correct/adequate gearing) but getting these speeds in the distance available. ie 1.25mls.
i'm there at brunters again on the 27th for a mag feature and will ask as well
brunters is uphill for the 1st mile and this must have an effect, when the mags do top speed stuff they use the in-car GPS and people can use the full bottom bend at speed to get a good run up onto the main runway, before going flat out. dont know how much effect this has. the 5th gear feature did look to be using not all of the runway tho to the speed trap, maybe a bit short?
rgds
15 April 2005, 08:43 PM
#28
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I find it a bit boring doing top speed stuff, it's about as exciting as a rolling road run 
My old std internals 2.0 WRX RA was timed at 174mph at Elvington FWIW, gearing was std UK.
(it has now gone 3mph faster but paid the price in reliability )
Andy
My old std internals 2.0 WRX RA was timed at 174mph at Elvington FWIW, gearing was std UK.
(it has now gone 3mph faster but paid the price in reliability
)Andy
15 April 2005, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Neilo
did anybody notice the speed of the ultima??? 141mph?? i thoguht they were fast?!?