Impreza_wanted_need_info

After long amount of research into this and a chat with many sales man i ahve realized this system is basically a way we can all kill our selves that bit quicker and truelly scary..

Why do i sell this, well lets think about it...

You drive a scooby and lets say it takes you 5000 miles of good driving to understand how it reacts in certain situations, how it slides, how to correct it, how to drive it well....

If you drive your car constantly and learn and learn you will get to a point when you know it pretty well and are a confident driver...

NOW lets think about DCCD.

Every single different setting that you put it to, basically changes the car into a completely different car!!

If you start on a 60/40 power ratio and you get used to that, thats fine.

Then you shift the power to 80/20. Well that car will handle differently in EVERY single situation and you will have to spend some serious time learning how to understand the car in that mode.

Now you have to do this and learn in every single mode. Thats some serious driving hours which most of us can not pracically give our cars.

My conclusion

If your a hardcore driver and willing to learn safely on private land then fair play and you will be able to use the system well.

For the average person i think its not needed. If the average person tried to shift power to the back and power slide it... then tried to get out of the sitaution as they usually would but then realize they dont have the power from the forward wheels, they are going to get in a sticky situation....

Whats everyone elses thoughts on this?

RB5193

After owning many rearwheel drive cars before the scooby, I personally find it easier to control a rwd in a slide and correct it than with the 4x4 sytem. With a rwd in a slide you just power off point the wheels in the direction you want the car to go and power on and the car will follow the direction you want to go unless you get it totally wrong, then rwd or 4x4 your generally in the sh*t!

With the 4x4 system when you correct the slide you have to understeer slightly which takes practice to avoid over correcting.

Any more opinions?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I can't help but feel that most of the people who talk about DCCD and how it applies to a car that's broken traction and is sliding, have never actually driven a DCCD-equipped car. It may well affect what happens when a car starts to slide - just how often do you do this on a public road? - but its primary benefit is in normal driving.

Roll it toward RWD and you have a supremely agile car with a very sharp turn-in and no tendency to understeer. On a favourite B-road, it's a blast - and exactly what you want.

Now drive the same car at high speed along a wet motorway. That agility is now a handicap - small steering inputs have the car tending to change lanes, you can feel that it would rather be cornering than maintaining a straight line. So, roll the DCCD control forward - more torque goes toward the front wheels, and there's more of a natural tendency for all 4 wheels to turn at the same speed. In other words, the car becomes more stable in a straight line, and it's more relaxing to drive as you don't need to keep such a tight grip on the wheel.

So, provided you actually do bother to use it, it gives the best of both worlds - RWD agility when you want it, and 4WD stability when that's what you prefer.

The behaviour of the 'auto' setting isn't well documented; on my car it feels just like RWD, though I suspect it tends to lock up the diff if it detects oversteer. I feel a track day coming on to test this theory!

Bill Poster

I think what you mean to say is that you've decided to buy a MY04 car and you're trying to justify the decision by saying that the superior MY05 car is somehow dangerous

Vipa

To the vast majority of scoob/evo owners it is completely irrelevant... unless on ice. I would never push the car to the point that I got into a power slide or the rear end broke away (very difficult to do in a scoob/evo anyway unless in very bad conditions) and I doubt the majority of others would either... so only a problem for the few who want to push to the limit.

For the rest of us the DCCD/AYC stays in auto and sorts out our mistakes!

Paul

Impreza_wanted_need_info

LOL @ Bill poster.

You have a very good point and you are right, in my mind i am trying to make sure i am making the right decision...

From personal experience though all the cars i have owned have been front wheel drive and as i have said before i am a young driver and its going to time me some time to learn how to drive this scooby, i have already booked a high performance car training day to help me...

I am just thinking the DCCD for me and those not so experienced (i know alot of you in this club attend regular track days etc so it probably doesnt apply) is probably not something good to play around with as it really does mean you have to understand the entire workings of a FWD car, a RWD car and a 4WD car.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Where does this bizarre idea come from that DCCD only makes a difference on the edge of grip and beyond? It allows you to alter the handling and feel of the car during normal driving. There is no need to be a hooligan to benefit from it.

ru'

Why would an 'average person' buy an STi???

Surely they'd just buy a focus or vectra etc.?

Impreza_wanted_need_info

Andy C..... correct me if i am wrong but is this system not made to help push the limits of the car in different ways to previously possible? Or am i looking to far into in terms of performance?

Ru... thats quite true. lol

Nathan L

Even with the diff fully open its still 65/35. Unless you seriously provoke the back end into a tail out slide.

Have you driven a DCCD car to make decent progress with the diff in auto? If you can't notice a difference stick to the 04 and be happy, you are driving neither car anywhere near their potential under any circumstance.

A 65/35 setup is better than 50/50. A DCCD set in Auto and left there as the owner doesn't want to touch it will still have a better bias than the 50/50 car.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Iwni: I've no doubt that it does enable the limits of the car to be extended. My point is that it affects the handling and stability of the car even when well within those limits.

Handling isn't just about what happens when the tyres completely break grip and the car starts to slide, it's about feedback, turn-in, body control, weight transfer and other things, all of which can be appreciated well within the limits of grip.

I run a '96 Nissan Primera alongside the scooby for just this reason (among others) - it handles OK, but it suffers from the same vagueness and understeer that any 'normal' FWD car on ordinary tyres will suffer. That means that I can really appreciate how much better the scooby is when I do drive it, and that in turn means I shouldn't get bored of it so easily. Last time I got bored of a car I ended up spending nearly 30 grand on a brand new, modified JDM STI

AsianGunner

iTrader: (7)

please please forgive me for being stupid, but whats "DCCD" stand for?

i hope i'm not the only one out there not knowing this.

Nathan L

Driver Controlled Centre Differential

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Driver Controlled Centre Differential.



Japanese market STIs have had it for years, the WR1 has it and it's finally come to the UK as standard on the '05 STI.

AsianGunner

iTrader: (7)

oh right, cheers guys!

as i've only had my bugeye for a couple of months, i've never driven another scoob.

wanna give an sti or wr1 a try, so when i go to get something done from a dealer i'll see if they'll let me have a go.

Impreza_wanted_need_info

Great photo of the control. Is that out of your car?

Also great thread, some great points raised!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Yep, my car, my photo. More here

scoobydooooo

personally i felt a hell of a difference { for the better } with the DCCD in auto compared to my old car which was " locked " 50/50 , it feels much better from the apex to the exit !!

Impreza_wanted_need_info

Fair play. So Andy you definately all for it then

Also smart looking car! Fanastic stuff!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

My only reservation is that a (pre-'05) UK car with its 50/50 split does give a mix of agility and stability that a DCCD-equipped car can't achieve - even though the ultimate abilities of a DCCD car are better, you do have to use the control to get the best from the car. If you don't want the hassle then you may be better off without it.

I should add that I had a full suspension kit fitted to the car last week, which has improved the handling no end anyway - and I now can't tell nearly as much difference between the DCCD settings. Quite what this means about the road/tyre interaction I'm not sure.

scoobydooooo

why would subaru make the care less stable by fitting dccd in the first place ?? they must feel it improves the car , yes or no ??

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Less understeer, more agility. You're not a RWD fan then? It doesn't seem to have done BMW any harm...

p1doc

i drove an 05sti ppp in auto as greasy and generally thought it was a better handling car than my 03 but to realistically compare you would have to do a lot more driving!
i know ian litchfield sells an05sti without dccd so you get the 05 spec c suspension without the dccd so you get a new car but do not get the dccd
i drive a 200sx for trackdays-that has very nice handling but very different to subarus
martin

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

That'll be a Euro import then. Probably my second choice after JDM - though I suspect that a car with DCCD will be easier to resell even if you don't feel the benefit yourself.

Davey P

iTrader: (1)

I test drove an UK MY05 STI with DCCD and I thought it was excellent. You could cure understeer a lot easier than a normal scoob and I enjoyed using the different diff settings.

Jay_bee

iTrader: (1)

I can't really comment on the MY05, but I know that on mine, now I have an understanding of what it does and why, i really appreciate it. Yes, it does mean that you have to be on your toes a bit more when driving fast, but if used properly, it makes the car handle much better. It just needs a bit of respect

6 pot

I have been driving my sti since October last year and have now used the DCCD in all of the settings, I tend to use it as follows:

Motorway / Straight A Roads: Set to Auto

Twisties / Roundabouts etc: Rear Bias

I much prefer to control an oversteering car,so this suits me just fine, I don't think it makes the car dangerous, its just a case of getting to know the system and the benefits are razor sharp turn in + massive ammounts of stability when needed.

The only time that I have been caught out was before the RE070's had been scrubbed in, on a greasy cold road doing about 65-70 mph, I found the limits of grip and went just a little to far beyond, however that said,it was a case of backing off waiting for the weight transfer pointing it in the right direction and powering on again.

I feel that a lot of this hype is coming from people who have maybee jumped into a demo car and hammered it into the first corner without any experience of the system.

I rest my case.

6 pot.

TonyFlow

beetlejuice
John Felstead
John Felstead
John Felstead
/beetlejuice

Neil Smalley

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

I agree I Famously lost my scoob at Castle Coombe, have a look at the Thread Trackday Video How not to do it My car has a 50/50 split with a DCCD system

a) I wouldn't have had to force it into Oversteer to try and lose Understeer.
B) there would have so much power to Front wheels and my overcorrection wouldn't have been such an Issue.

Tony

Ps