EvilKyote

Ok,

MOT'd my car today, MY96 impreza turbo, UK car, faled on headlight alignment (easily sorted), wiper blade split (easy fix) and for my zorst for being too loud!! WTF is that about?

No before any of you start laying into me about having a rediculously loud exhaust, a few points, 1) it is not overly loud, alot quieter than a blitz nur spec etc, but fairly loud compared to a stock exhaust. 2) I have had this exhaust on the car for 3 years, the past 2 MOT's never had a problem, this time they (different garage) said it failed cause it was too loud, I asked how they measured it, what they used etc (I've had it tested and it is a fair way below the maximum legal limit!!) and they said, with our ears, we compare it to a similar car with standard stock parts, if it sounds louder then it fails!!

WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!

Anyone got any advice or suggestions?!?! Can they legally fail it like this?!?!?!

:@

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You could ask for them to check it with a DB meter?
But its similar to when a cop pulls you for having an exhaust thats too loud, if it exceeds a certain limit (or seems to exceed) then they can fail you (depending on who's inspecting the vehicle at the time).

Tony

craigdmcd

iTrader: (2)

It is a bit of a technical grey area, read up on this website http://www.motuk.co.uk and see if you want to proceed with an appeal, all the details on how to do this are on this site, the particular page you need is http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_710.htm . Personally it sounds like the tester is just a **** (Probably a Mitsu owner or some other grudge against scoobies)

pslewis

From the MOT Bible:-

"b. assess subjectively the effectiveness of the silencer in reducing exhaust noise to a level considered to be average for the vehicle"

They have said its above average for the vehicle, subjectively.

"b. a silencer in such condition, or of such a type, that the noise emitted from the vehicle is clearly unreasonably above the level expected from a similar vehicle with a silencer in average condition."

Now, I note that you say its NOT loud - I don't know - but, have you ever sat in your garden on a peaceful summers evening and had some **** drive past rattling your windows?

Ban all non-standard exhausts I say!!

Pete

vindaloo

Sounds like there's a rather large hole to fall into here. If you appeal, I'd be very interested in the outcome. As it stands it looks like you'll have to find a bung or fork out another £40+.

Name the b*ggers. They certainly won't get anymore scoobs visiting for a while.

J.

ajntez

go to scoobyclinic

mabelcable

I take that you can't take it back to the place you had it tested the first 2 times then with that exhaust?
PITA but you could always remount your old one for the test.

MattW

Chris L

Difficult one this. There is no pre-defined noise limit for exhausts in the MOT test. However, it can cause a failure if there is 'excessive noise'. This is in the opinion of the tester. Things to notes - the check for excessive noise is in relation to the exhaust system being damaged - i.e. excessive noise might indicate a leakage. There is no specific rule for failing an exhaust 'because it's noisy'. Is your exhaust 'E' marked and road legal? If it is - you've got a good chance on appeal. If it isn't, then don't bother. Choice is to take it somewhere else or fit a bung and have it retested.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I understand that almost no aftermarket exhausts are actually 'e' marked, so it's questionable whether or not any of them are actually road legal. I'd guess 'no'.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who actually knows the rules here. My exhaust certainly isn't 'e' marked, but since the car is a Japanese-spec import there's hardly an 'e' mark on it anywhere. That's what the SVA process is for, of course.

highlander68k

That is the first time I've heard a car fail because it is too loud.

Tell all your friends, tell everyone you know and take the car somewhere else.

To be honest, contesting something like this will only encourage the government to enforce noise restrictions for all cars as part of the MoT.

Chris L

Exactly Andy - they seem to be a lot hotter on this with bikes fitted with race cans, but I'm sure if you tried to argue your case, they would use this against you.

Pogue

Why give the MOT tester grief, if he passes something that should have failed he can get fined £10,000 and get his licence revoked and lose his job if he gets caught.

Your exhaust was noisier than standard so it fails, simple as that.

Ask yourself this, would you risk that much for him ??

I ask my customers that question every time I have a bike in with a noisy exhaust, no one has yet said "yes I would risk that" 'nuff said

The MOT inspectors from VOSA now give points against us for simple things like not putting lines all the way through words that have to be deleted on the inspection forms, you miss some of the word and we can be in trouble, they also drop bikes in at random with minor faults that they try and catch us out on, beleive me they are on our case all the time.

It's like the sword of bloody Damocles being an Mot tester these days

scoobyjohn2000

quote

a silencer in such condition, or of such a type, that the noise emitted from the vehicle is clearly unreasonably above the level expected from a similar vehicle with a silencer in average condition."

so if u was to take another scooby in with a blitz exhaust would they have to pass your coz they other would be a lot louder???

a few years ago i had a ashly exhaust fitted to a xr3i cab manafold back, i must say it was very loud and i got taken to court for it, but becouse the exhaust had been made for my make of car and not altered in any way it was classed as a "pattern part" which anyone can buy and fit so i got away with it but was told if it was just a back box then would of been found guilty and car disposed off.

Pogue

A Blitz system is not average under any circumstances


b. assess subjectively the effectiveness of the silencer in reducing exhaust noise to a level considered to be average for the vehicle.

teknobod

The rules are here:-

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/publicat...%20systems.pdf

Unfortunately, it would appear that there is a chance most MOT testers may fail it on the noise unless you know of a station who shares your appreciation of the flat four burble through a drainpipe.

Although the test does state "with the engine running" as some of the others have said, it probably comes down to the tester. If they are comparing it at 5000rpm it will sound noisy wont it!!

Andy

GrollySTI

Simple but utterly stupid!!!

One cars standard can be noisier than another cars modified ?!

Hardly a test

skiddus_markus

Just take it somewhere else.

R19KET

Is your exhaust a turbo back with de-cat, or just a back box ?

If it's a de-cat' it's probably best not to start appealing !

Mark.

ozzy

doesn't matter if it's a decat or not. As long as it passes the emmissions test it's fine.

I still can't believe thata government test doesn't have an actual limit set. If they want to test for loudness then there should be a maximum dB that can be measured. It shouldn't be down to the testers own ears for God sake.

An actual measurement would help protect the MOT station for passing a car that should fail.

Sounds ridiculous to me.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I don't get this. You guys want the exhaust to be noise tested and compared against an absolute threshold - where exactly do you think that threshold would be? Set it a few dB above the level required for EU type approval and almost every aftermarket system will still fail. There's a reason why the standard one is so quiet and restrictive. Just ask Prodrive about the fun they had getting the P1 through.

I think it's a remarkable example of common sense being applied. The tester is actually allowed some discretion as to whether he thinks the car is 'too loud' or not. That means that a car which is a bit on the noisy side can still pass; put in a requirement that the exhaust actually be tested and they'll all fail.

I personally find overly loud exhausts to be childish and pointlessly antagonistic; the motorist gets a hard enough time from the government as it is without having scores of people whingeing about those 'noisy modified cars' and insisting that 'something must be done'. I don't think any of us would want to see a rule banning cars from being modified at all - but that already is the case in some countries and it's not at all unfeasible that it could happen here too one day.

theotherphil

FYI, You won't get an "E" marked exhaust as only bike exhausts have the "E" mark. A friend of mine welded an E mark onto his noisy exhaust as he was always getting pulled for it. The kind traffic policeman that next stopped him said "Nice try son!"

teknobod

I believe there is a set limit for exhaust noise, but it's not currently part of the MOT test.

However, when the police pull you they would prosecute under the "construction and use regs".

powerman1

fit the standard exhaust back on (back box)takes about 15mins. pay for a retest and stick the old one back on again afterwards..powerman

XS-Home

Buy a new car & on your V5 it clearly states the decibels for the exhaust for our new September reg'd UK std WRX 85 decibels.........

ozzy

That's the point. What did the tester determine was a 'standard' car? was it another standard subaru?

No offense, but who cares if you think loud exhausts are childish or antagonistic. The question is whether the MOT tester 'thinks' his zorts is too loud. It may not be loud to him, me, you or his neighbours or even another MOT tester for that matter. If something is to be part of an official government test then there should be guidelines and set paramteres for everyone to follow.

So, if the loudness of an exhuast is to be tested either as part of the MOT or at the roadside I'd want to know why it's too loud rather than going on the persons own hearing. Who says his hearing has been calibrated?

Stefan
P.S. I run a nice and quiet std STI classic backbox thank you very much.

R19KET

I didn't realise this. I was under the impression that since 1992 all petrol cars had to be fitted with a catalytic converter.

Mark.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Hm... clearly I've touched a nerve here.

A question for you: Could you tell the difference between a standard car and one with a typical aftermarket exhaust? I bet you could, after all it's not exactly difficult is it?

So, what makes an MOT tester so much less capable?

The rule says "A silencer that is in such a condition or is of such a type that the noise emitted is clearly in excess of that which would be produced by a similar machine fitted with a standard silencer in average condition" - ie. a car should only fail if it's bl**dy obvious that it's making more noise than it should.

There are fixed, measured limits in place - cars have to meet them in order to get EU type approval or to pass SVA, and they're set at exactly the same level for all cars (with one or two exceptions). We should be thankful that they don't have to pass the same test at MOT time too, or you can be assured that just about every aftermarket system out there would fail.

How would you feel if you had a system which was 'obviously' not too loud, but which failed a test because it measured slightly over the limit on a dB meter? You'd be well upset I'd bet, and plenty of people would moan and argue about how stupid it was. At least with the current system that's less likely to happen.

pat

Mark,

you are of course correct, but I have never seen a car that can pass all three of the current emission control criteria at the same time without a cat... you can get the HC and the lambda in but it will fail on CO; you can get HC and CO in and it will fail on Lambda... and so it goes on.

Cheers,

Pat.

ozzy

Don't worry, you didn't hit a nerve with me. As I stated, I run a nice quiet backbox as I couldn't live with one much louder. I'm just pointing out we should stick to facts rather than personal opinions as it makes no difference to the MOT results. When you fit a free-flowing exhaust it increases the noise. Doesn't mean the owner is childish or being antagonstic. I'm surprised if no-one passes comments than anyone with a loud exhaust is clearly a 'chav'

You're correct, I could tell the difference. The question I was asking from the start was what is the 'standard' and why isn't it measurable. If the MOT test states that no aftermarket zorst is acceptable if it's louder than the original then they'd all fail as you say.

If my car failed simply because it was slightly too loud, then I'd be pi$$ed but I'd accept it. It takes 10mins to swap the backbox over to a std one anyway.

I'm arguing that it's pretty daft leaving it up to a testers ears. What's the point in having a test when it's hit 'n miss if it passes or not based on the testers own hearing.

Stefan

P.S. Mark, you may well be correct. I'm not sure if the MOT test has to confirm the cat exists or whether it's just based on the emmissions. Since I've never heard of a full decat passing emmissions I was assuming EvilKyote already had this sorted.