Elise S1 vs 2002 Scooby WRX
18 August 2004, 05:44 PM
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Elise S1 vs 2002 Scooby WRX
I have a Elise S1 and am considering selling it for a Scooby WRX. IN the opinion of all you scooby owners do you reckon it is a wise move...maybe a little biased but I would like some honest opinions.
I really don't think from the experience on the road that there is much that could beat the liz on the corners but Im considering selling it just purely on the comfort factor and a bit more room.
Sooo should I keep the liz or sell on for a WRX?
Cheers G
I really don't think from the experience on the road that there is much that could beat the liz on the corners but Im considering selling it just purely on the comfort factor and a bit more room.
Sooo should I keep the liz or sell on for a WRX?
Cheers G
18 August 2004, 05:54 PM
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Thanks for that, now I understand 
- my mate has a mark one elise with a powertrain PTP evo 220 bhp conversion - wicked motor - never been sure of the handling of them though - when the back goes, it goes......before you choose test drive a scooby then decide.
- my mate has a mark one elise with a powertrain PTP evo 220 bhp conversion - wicked motor - never been sure of the handling of them though - when the back goes, it goes......before you choose test drive a scooby then decide.
18 August 2004, 06:03 PM
#5
Gareth,
in terms of performance, there's not much between them in a straight line. The WRX will be faster at higher speeds (ie above 70 - 80mph), compared to a standard Elise.
In terms of cornering speed, ultimately on a smooth open road, with an expert driver the Elise would be faster, but in the real world, there wouldn't be much in it, as the more compliant WRX would cope better with the uneven road surfaces. The WRX also has better visibility (driver sits higher up), which means that you can see around some corners better, permitting you to take a different line, and also take advantage of more overtaking opportunities.
Around a track like Knockhill, there's not much in overall lap times between a standard WRX and Elise. The Elise is slightly faster around the corners, the WRX is slightly faster down the straights.
In the wet, the extra traction offered by the 4WD system would make more of a difference, especially on the road. In the snow, don't even think about tkaing the Elise out of the garage
In terms of practicality, the WRX is a better option, and will operate fine as a family car by the virtue of having 4 doors (or 5!), big boot, good safety measures (ABS, side impact beams, airbags etc), and it's also more comofrtable in terms of ride and noise than the Else, especially for longer journeys.
Overall, you can use more of the WRXs performance for more of the time on the road than you can in an Elise throughout the year.
Where the Elise wins hands down is on driver involvement, with the feeling of being "at one" with the car. The lack of power steering, ABS brakes, lighter weight etc gives the driver more feedback and control, but in some respects, this makes the WRX easier to drive fast for longer periods - the amount of information provided by the Elise can become "wearing" on extended fun runs. Some people miss this involvement, and the buzz that it gives.
However, there are a few downsides to be aware of:
a) Insurance will no doubt be more expensive, especially if you are a young driver. You may need to get a tracker fitted. Get a few quotes before you
b) Fuel economy is much worse than an Elise. On motorways you may get 30mpg, but if you enjoy driving, then expect no more than an average of 20 - 22mpg including town driving, and below 20mpg if you are having fun, below 10mpg if you are on track. On average, you'll get about 220 - 240 miles between fill ups at £40 per time. Work out how much miles you do a year.
c) Servicing every 6 months, 7,500 miles on early bugeye WRXs, every 10k miles/once per year on 2002 models onwards. You do have more choice in Subaru dealers than Lotus ones though...
d) In standard form, the WRX brakes are not up to serious track use or even extended fast road use, and you will get fade after 6 - 10 laps. Brake pads for 4 pots are also expensive at around £100 a set (more/less depending if they are standard/uprated etc), though they should last 15 - 20k miles.
In summary, both offer similar levels of absolute performance. The Elise would have lower running costs, and higher driver involvement, but the WRX would have more practicality, comfort, safety, but both are still great fun cars to drive.
John
in terms of performance, there's not much between them in a straight line. The WRX will be faster at higher speeds (ie above 70 - 80mph), compared to a standard Elise.
In terms of cornering speed, ultimately on a smooth open road, with an expert driver the Elise would be faster, but in the real world, there wouldn't be much in it, as the more compliant WRX would cope better with the uneven road surfaces. The WRX also has better visibility (driver sits higher up), which means that you can see around some corners better, permitting you to take a different line, and also take advantage of more overtaking opportunities.
Around a track like Knockhill, there's not much in overall lap times between a standard WRX and Elise. The Elise is slightly faster around the corners, the WRX is slightly faster down the straights.
In the wet, the extra traction offered by the 4WD system would make more of a difference, especially on the road. In the snow, don't even think about tkaing the Elise out of the garage
In terms of practicality, the WRX is a better option, and will operate fine as a family car by the virtue of having 4 doors (or 5!), big boot, good safety measures (ABS, side impact beams, airbags etc), and it's also more comofrtable in terms of ride and noise than the Else, especially for longer journeys.
Overall, you can use more of the WRXs performance for more of the time on the road than you can in an Elise throughout the year.
Where the Elise wins hands down is on driver involvement, with the feeling of being "at one" with the car. The lack of power steering, ABS brakes, lighter weight etc gives the driver more feedback and control, but in some respects, this makes the WRX easier to drive fast for longer periods - the amount of information provided by the Elise can become "wearing" on extended fun runs. Some people miss this involvement, and the buzz that it gives.
However, there are a few downsides to be aware of:
a) Insurance will no doubt be more expensive, especially if you are a young driver. You may need to get a tracker fitted. Get a few quotes before you
b) Fuel economy is much worse than an Elise. On motorways you may get 30mpg, but if you enjoy driving, then expect no more than an average of 20 - 22mpg including town driving, and below 20mpg if you are having fun, below 10mpg if you are on track. On average, you'll get about 220 - 240 miles between fill ups at £40 per time. Work out how much miles you do a year.
c) Servicing every 6 months, 7,500 miles on early bugeye WRXs, every 10k miles/once per year on 2002 models onwards. You do have more choice in Subaru dealers than Lotus ones though...
d) In standard form, the WRX brakes are not up to serious track use or even extended fast road use, and you will get fade after 6 - 10 laps. Brake pads for 4 pots are also expensive at around £100 a set (more/less depending if they are standard/uprated etc), though they should last 15 - 20k miles.
In summary, both offer similar levels of absolute performance. The Elise would have lower running costs, and higher driver involvement, but the WRX would have more practicality, comfort, safety, but both are still great fun cars to drive.
John
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18 August 2004, 09:18 PM
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I have owned 4 Impreza Turbos over the last 7 years. And still own one now.
In summary, great to drive, cr*p to own.
They cost a fortune to run/maintain.
They are, amongst a few other models EvO's T5's etc, the car of choice for the armed robbers, for getaway purposes.
Two of my friends have been attacked by armed robbers for their Imprezas.
Sparkplug on here was attacked in his house by 3 balaclava clad men. Car stolen/recovered they got sent down for aggravated vehicle taking and several connected armed robberies. 7 to 9 years each.
Another pal sat eating a butty, armed robbers fleeing a heist, stopped their stolen Ford Focus, knocked 8 bells out of him whilst dragging him from his car to use it as a second getaway vehicle.
One was caught the following day in the car, and got off with it, as did the rest who did a runner.
I won't get rid of mine. I don't think.
But I can't EVER remember reading about/hearing on TV of anybody being attacked by armed robbers to get their 2 seater plastic rocket (Elise or TVR) stolen for use as a ramraid vehicle/getaway car.
They are brilliant cars, but aren't very good when used for ramming Police cars or reversing through off licence front windows.!!
Buy an Impreza, sleep with a Samurai sword/pickaxe handle/cricket bat/shotgun (coose 1 or more) behind each entry door, and in the bedroom.
Don't let the wife/girfriend drive it. They probably would bring any potential thieves straight to your front door, oblivious to the fact they were being followed.
Or just get threatened at Tesco/Asda etc. and lose the car.
This is obviously an exageration of the reality of ownership, otherwise I wouldn't still own one.
But do search on here or Google and see how often the incidents I describe happen.
Then decide
Elises get stolen by pros to order, but not usually at gunpoint.
Imprezas too are stolen to order by pros.
But a different type that DO use weapons.
Sorry if this sounds very negative, it isn't.
I love driving my Impreza, but you wanted an honest opinion.
This is mine.
On Jersey/Geurnsey and maybe Isle of Man most if not all the risk involved with ownership disapear.
They don't nick them because they can easily be found, and can't get them off the island.
P.S, If I didn't have 2 kids and a wife, I would have an Elise.
Cheers
MTR
In summary, great to drive, cr*p to own.
They cost a fortune to run/maintain.
They are, amongst a few other models EvO's T5's etc, the car of choice for the armed robbers, for getaway purposes.
Two of my friends have been attacked by armed robbers for their Imprezas.
Sparkplug on here was attacked in his house by 3 balaclava clad men. Car stolen/recovered they got sent down for aggravated vehicle taking and several connected armed robberies. 7 to 9 years each.
Another pal sat eating a butty, armed robbers fleeing a heist, stopped their stolen Ford Focus, knocked 8 bells out of him whilst dragging him from his car to use it as a second getaway vehicle.
One was caught the following day in the car, and got off with it, as did the rest who did a runner.
I won't get rid of mine. I don't think.
But I can't EVER remember reading about/hearing on TV of anybody being attacked by armed robbers to get their 2 seater plastic rocket (Elise or TVR) stolen for use as a ramraid vehicle/getaway car.
They are brilliant cars, but aren't very good when used for ramming Police cars or reversing through off licence front windows.!!
Buy an Impreza, sleep with a Samurai sword/pickaxe handle/cricket bat/shotgun (coose 1 or more) behind each entry door, and in the bedroom.
Don't let the wife/girfriend drive it. They probably would bring any potential thieves straight to your front door, oblivious to the fact they were being followed.
Or just get threatened at Tesco/Asda etc. and lose the car.
This is obviously an exageration of the reality of ownership, otherwise I wouldn't still own one.
But do search on here or Google and see how often the incidents I describe happen.
Then decide
Elises get stolen by pros to order, but not usually at gunpoint.
Imprezas too are stolen to order by pros.
But a different type that DO use weapons.
Sorry if this sounds very negative, it isn't.
I love driving my Impreza, but you wanted an honest opinion.
This is mine.
On Jersey/Geurnsey and maybe Isle of Man most if not all the risk involved with ownership disapear.
They don't nick them because they can easily be found, and can't get them off the island.
P.S, If I didn't have 2 kids and a wife, I would have an Elise.
Cheers
MTR
19 August 2004, 01:02 PM
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I could've gone for an Elise but decided against it on grounds of practicality.
If i could afford a second car i'd have an elise in a heartbeat.
Dont get me wrong, i love the scoob (03WRXPPP) but if it wasnt a company car i dont think i could afford to run it. The running costs are quite extreme.
Last month i spent £305 on petrol alone and i only live 1/2 mile from work (i do take a bit of a scenic route on the way home though)
Apart from the costs of ownership, one of the major drawbacks is that due to the high levels of grip you have to be doing ridiculous speeds to feel like you are pushing the car. This can be fun but if you're a crap driver like me you are sometimes left with the feeling that you're not getting the best out of the car, it leads to a diminshed sense of driver involvement.
The other side of that is that even crap drivers can go very fast relatively safely.
As ever - always try before you buy.
If i could afford a second car i'd have an elise in a heartbeat.
Dont get me wrong, i love the scoob (03WRXPPP) but if it wasnt a company car i dont think i could afford to run it. The running costs are quite extreme.
Last month i spent £305 on petrol alone and i only live 1/2 mile from work (i do take a bit of a scenic route on the way home though)
Apart from the costs of ownership, one of the major drawbacks is that due to the high levels of grip you have to be doing ridiculous speeds to feel like you are pushing the car. This can be fun but if you're a crap driver like me you are sometimes left with the feeling that you're not getting the best out of the car, it leads to a diminshed sense of driver involvement.
The other side of that is that even crap drivers can go very fast relatively safely.
As ever - always try before you buy.
19 August 2004, 07:15 PM
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Viper Liz,
Just to add some figures to my paranoia see here.
http://www.secureyourmotor.gov.uk/ca...eftrating1.asp
If you select either the Impreza or Elise they both have a medium risk rating.
But here,
http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/cti2kmeth.htm
Pick the bottom spreadsheet that shows rate of theft per 1000 vehicles.
The Impreza shows actual figures far higher than the Elise, although I must admit to being suprised at how low the numbers were.
Around my part of the country the situation has been pretty bad over recent years.
I have even had discussions on here with people from more affluent areas down south, who were convinced that the risk was hyped up.
Funnily enough one individual not long after got rid of his 'company' Impreza Turbo. (mine belongs to me, I foot all the bills)
Perhaps he became paranoid too.
Cheers
MTR
Just to add some figures to my paranoia see here.
http://www.secureyourmotor.gov.uk/ca...eftrating1.asp
If you select either the Impreza or Elise they both have a medium risk rating.
But here,
http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/cti2kmeth.htm
Pick the bottom spreadsheet that shows rate of theft per 1000 vehicles.
The Impreza shows actual figures far higher than the Elise, although I must admit to being suprised at how low the numbers were.
Around my part of the country the situation has been pretty bad over recent years.
I have even had discussions on here with people from more affluent areas down south, who were convinced that the risk was hyped up.
Funnily enough one individual not long after got rid of his 'company' Impreza Turbo. (mine belongs to me, I foot all the bills)
Perhaps he became paranoid too.
Cheers
MTR
Last edited by MTR; 19 August 2004 at 07:18 PM.
19 August 2004, 07:29 PM
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19 August 2004, 09:32 PM
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If I didn't have a wife, baby and another on the way I'd have an Elise, but wanting speed and practicality my Classic Wagon wins hands down
I would recommend classic over the newer WRX, you get much more feel from the car. I own an MY98 Classic Turbo 2000 Wagon with PPP and have recently driven my friends a 01 WRX bugeye Wagon (and he drove mine). For comfort, the WRX was better, more compliant even though both cars have the Prodrive spring kit, and certainly quieter (but no suprising as a big chnk of the extra weight is from sound proofing). The second point the WRX was better for was brakes, but then his car has a Godspeed 330mm brake upgrade.
In all other aspects, steering feel, weight of controls, chassis feedback my classic wins hands down. If you want to go Scooby then go classic (2000 or older). If you go 1999-2001 classic you get the same (slightly better) engine and brakes as the WRX anyway.
Only drawback is shorter servicing 7500/6 months. Main dealer services 130-500 over a 45k miles cycle. All WRX bugeyes have 10k/12 month service interval, I'm sure this was applied back to all bueyes even though it only officially occured on MY02, certainly my freinds MY01 has 2 service books, the initial one that was 7.5k then all the others at 10k since.
If you want practiality and speed you won't regret it.
I would recommend classic over the newer WRX, you get much more feel from the car. I own an MY98 Classic Turbo 2000 Wagon with PPP and have recently driven my friends a 01 WRX bugeye Wagon (and he drove mine). For comfort, the WRX was better, more compliant even though both cars have the Prodrive spring kit, and certainly quieter (but no suprising as a big chnk of the extra weight is from sound proofing). The second point the WRX was better for was brakes, but then his car has a Godspeed 330mm brake upgrade.
In all other aspects, steering feel, weight of controls, chassis feedback my classic wins hands down. If you want to go Scooby then go classic (2000 or older). If you go 1999-2001 classic you get the same (slightly better) engine and brakes as the WRX anyway.
Only drawback is shorter servicing 7500/6 months. Main dealer services 130-500 over a 45k miles cycle. All WRX bugeyes have 10k/12 month service interval, I'm sure this was applied back to all bueyes even though it only officially occured on MY02, certainly my freinds MY01 has 2 service books, the initial one that was 7.5k then all the others at 10k since.
If you want practiality and speed you won't regret it.
20 August 2004, 10:34 AM
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It's a comfortable saloon that goes very quickly and is easy to control, very forgiving.
I found it boring at legal speeds. Yet it is brutally efficient; it goes fast, without feeling particularly fast.
You might find it numb after the excitement of your Elise.
BTW, just noticed you wanted a 2002 WRX - they are considered the softest and most comfy of all! Classic is rawer.
I found it boring at legal speeds. Yet it is brutally efficient; it goes fast, without feeling particularly fast.
You might find it numb after the excitement of your Elise.
BTW, just noticed you wanted a 2002 WRX - they are considered the softest and most comfy of all! Classic is rawer.
Last edited by Brendan Hughes; 20 August 2004 at 10:37 AM.
27 August 2004, 02:30 PM
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Gareth,
Whatever you do - make sure if you're going to sell the 'liz that you remove the stripes... like a death knell for an Elise..
Been there...done that... got the chrome orange and black t-shirt...
-iain
Whatever you do - make sure if you're going to sell the 'liz that you remove the stripes... like a death knell for an Elise..
Been there...done that... got the chrome orange and black t-shirt...
-iain
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