Squizz

A friend has given up using their Jaguar C-Type replica due to worry over possible legal action, in the event of a coming together with another car.

Track day insurance covers damage to ones own car via any means, certainly...

They're more worried about possible private action from owners of much more valuble cars if they were to have a biff. (He usually drives on RMA days where there are lots of expensive "toys").

Anyone care to comment?

ozzy

I was very surprised when I asked about trackday insurance recently after a lad from work had an off on his new'ish SP1. It was entirely the other riders fault, yet both had no insurance. OK, he accepts the cost to repair his own bike, but what if he'd had more serious injuries than his broken collar bone.

I ask about this in the Scotland forum as I fancied trying a trackday. No-one had any insurance either, which is fare enough if you accept the risks on your own car. But, what if you write-off another or (god-forbid) kill someone or get killed yourself?

Stefan

image doctor

Cars hitting other cars at track days is thankfully a rare thing!

Usually drivers with brain fade crashing their own car.

johnfelstead

trackday insurance only covers your own car for repair, there is no 3rd party liability.

When you sign on at a trackday, you sign a waiver to any claims against the circuit, the organisors or the other drivers, so if you end up in a shunt involving or caused by another driver, tough, you have no come back against them.

I used to cover my Impreza for 10K for about £120 but the standard cover does not include engine/gearbox impact damage, so i used to pay an extra £15 to add the engine impact damage to the cover. Most people are unaware that the engine was excluded, and that is one of the more costly things likely to be damaged in a trackday shunt on an Impreza.

Squizz

Cheers, John.

I wasn't sure most disclaimers covered liability of the part of other drivers. I thought It was purely to absolve the circuit and staff of any liability.

It's worth him checking out the situation himself.

Having said that, I've been a passenger in it around Castle Coombe. So there we were nudging 130mph and I'm in a little bucket seat holding onto a chassis rail. NO BELTS!!!

SD

As I understand it, you cannot just sign away your basic rights, or the rights afforded to you under an organiser's 'duty of care'. That is to say, if someone was killed or seriously injured directly as a result of the negligence in driving by a third party, that person and/or the event organiser could still be held responsible.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a test civil action against an individual or track day company soon following a high profile track day accident. (Not saying that there has been a crash, but one could well happen).

Interested in the legal bods opinions on this.

Simon.

johnfelstead

i agree Simon, that is probably the case where negligence is proven in a loss of life/limb type event. But being practical you arent going to get very far in most circumstances that will occur on a trackday, such as a damaged car as a result of someone elses mistake. If you cant afford to lose the car, insure it or dont drive on track.

I am not aware of any insurance you can take out to protect you from 3rd party liability on track. In motorsport events run by the MSA, part of your entry fee goes towards a multi miliion pound liability cover insurance policy for these type of 3rd party events such as a spectator death.

Nexuas

On the subject of track day insurance who is the best/cheapest company to look at, or does it have to be covered by your current insurance provider?

Oh and John would you consider coming along to a impreza sport trackday, and giving some driving tips? (As you used to own a sport which I believe you tracked, and you are reputed to be a very good track driver?)

billythekid

I run a small track car hire company - and this is something that causes us problems.

Our solicitor looked over the situation and advised us to use in car video in all cars - which we now do. We always tell our customers to leave plenty of space between other cars and only overtake when signaled - thus if anything does happen this will be clear on the video.

Regarding the indemnity form - we have one which all customers sign, but if someone gets hurt and it’s our fault they can come after us - indemnity or not.

I prefer to stick to airfield days as there are no barriers to hit and you can have much more fun.
Our cars have insurance but it only covers our car.

I suggest he invests £500 in an incar video - let me know if you want details.

Hope that helps.

ozzy

Didn't I read a good while back that a circuit requested video cameras were removed from cars participating in a trackday??

Stefan

Mungo

Yes, because you're not allowed to time laps on trackdays, and you can use a video camera to take a lap time.

davyboy

Video camera's are banned at the 'ring, but never heard of a problem at UK track days.

Cider boy

You are not allowed any video cameras at Oulton Park, and I belive all the other ex BHLG circuits follow this rule as well, certainly the case for bike days

Matt

RRH

You are allowed to use them at Oulton provided you sign a form to say that the footage won't be used commercially.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

They do check for Camera's on Public days at the 'Ring' and remove them I still manage to sneak a Full lap though but they are allowed on Closed days. IIRC

Sliverstone don't allow Videos at Trax but this maybe The "Organisers" ruling and not the "Circuits"

I always used 6 or 7 time Competitive Car Insurance (Eggar Lawsons) for Track days (and 100% no claims) but as Stated only covers your own Cars bodywork.


Tony

RRH

Might the trax thing be a commercial issue? assume the organisers want to sell their own videos of the day.

Cider boy

I know that Phil, the organiser of the bike days I attend there, has specifically said at his briefings that video cameras, both on-vehicle AND at circuit-side are not permitted for the legal worries mentioned above, he must be covering himself then rather than the circuit.

It really bugs me though that people have to be this worried. When I go on the track, I understand that it is an inherantly (sp?) dangerous thing to be doing. I go there to take my bike to the limit of my riding ability, and understand that a large percenatge of others on-track with me will be doing the same. With this in mind, it is inevitable that, at some point, somebody will go past thier own limit and crash - possibly taking out a totally innocent third party during this crash, which could be me.

If this was to happen on the road, and ensuing crash resulted in serious injury / death then of course legal action should be taken against the person causing said serious injury / death to an innocent third party as a result of going to fast or whatever, but as already stated when you go down that pit-lane exit you have to be aware that it is a dangerous place, and that you may be going home in an Ambulance / wooden box. If you find this risk too much then stay off the track, simple as that.

Any trackday will always have the odd idiot who thinks he's a god on two / four wheels, but any organiser worth thier salt will have booted him / her off after 1/2 a lap.

Sorry to rant on about this, but is something in which I feel very strongley. I don't ride on the road anymore as I find the risk from muppets pulling out / changing lane is too great - too many near misses

However - when I go on the track I am willing to accept the risk, it's a risky pastime.

The "claims culture" of things like this is going to be the end of track days in the UK, as said above all it takes is for that first test claim to go the wrong way and that's that

Anyway, rant over

Matt

RRH

talking of claims culture-

there has recently been a claim against one of the circuits;

a rider came off his bike following a grassy excursion, and is now suing the circuit as they didn't warn in the drivers briefing that the grass is slippy

he's a solicitor apparently.

the case is going on at the moment- will let you know when I hear more.

how about this for daft though- we had a guy turn up at Oulton the other week, had brought a helmet as suggested. he must have been a builder as he brought a builders hard hat with a bit of velcro attached to go under his chin FFS

'twas a good laugh though.....

Cider boy

Exactly mate, it's gonna finish them for all of us because of goons like that.

I lowsided at one track day last year trying to keep up with a local bloke as I hadn't been on this track before, was trying to follow him to get a line through one corner that I couldn't get right, cold tyres and nasty camber put me down. I put it down to my stupidy at making such a mistake, first time in 5 years of track riding that I'd crashed through cold tyres.

Just realised I was wrong, I am now going to sue the organisers for not telling me to not push it to the limit on cold tyres

Matt

RRH

maybe sue the tyre manufacturers too m8

RRH

and while your at it the firm that laid the tarmac

Cider boy

Yep, and Suzuki for making a bike that will crash if the tyres aren't warm

I'm gonna get them fitting stabilisers for all our sakes

Matt

billythekid

Airfield days are the way to go peeps!

Much safer IME.

RRH

You would look a t*at though matt

Cider boy

Ahh yes, but think how safe I'd be

And therefore put all the claims direct people out of business

Matt

RRH

I think we have the basis of a cunning, and potentially very popular, plan their m8

Billy, agreed, although the grass to the sides of the runways is often rutted, which is fine(ish) when you go straight across the rutts, but not when you hit them sideways and barrell-roll like a right tw*t. I saw it happen not so long ago to an M3 at Elvington- not nice

Also they tend to be massively abrasive- I did a set of new S02's in three hours, two of which were wet

billythekid

Yeah Elvington is always hard on rubber. I use a set on my Caterham every time I go there.

When did this M3 roll - what it a BAT event?

As far as I know this only happened once before at Elvington.

RRH

can't remember who the organiser was, but have it on video somewhere.

you must be going some to use a set on a caterham though, or getting it well sideways

billythekid

On ACB10s - the surface is quite harsh.

Also gooning a fair bit.

PM me if you find the vid.

johnfelstead

I would love to, i only took the sport around the nurburgring track wise, it went very well indeed in the wet. Drop me a mail when you are ready.