davedipster

Does the PPP for the 03 STI really make a big difference on the road.

I mean std it's a flying machine from 3k to the redline, and the demo I drove at my dealers with PPP felt abit flat in comparison to my std car (the salesman wasnt light though)

Anyone done a 0-100 comparison of std and ppp? surely 35hp can't make that much difference, if they really make 305hp that is?

Dipster

ThrustSSC

I ran my MY03 STi for 10k miles before PPP, and have done another 8k since then. The PPP'd version is much smoother on the pickup, which does deceive you into thinking it's not as quick. It also means you avoid those embarrassing bogged-down starts Yes, the PPP version is quicker, but to be honest the standard car is so quick once it gets going that it's the drivability that makes the difference for me.

One other note, I've tracked my MPG religiously since I got the car. And the PPP has made absolutely zippo difference compared to when it was standard - despite comments on this forum to the effect it might improve MPG. PM me if you are interested in seeing the spreadsheet.

davedipster

You're right, the ppp demo car did seem more linear and so abit dissapointing cos I like the mad rush @ 3k.
If it just makes the car smoother and a little faster then I'll stay non-ppp and £1800 better off.

Any other opinions?

Dipster

Neil W

I also have an 03 Sti and was considering PPP but after reading many threads on here and a test drive at my local dealer, I am not 100% convinced that it is worth the money.

Think I will spend the money on improving handling, styling and stereo and then think how to improve performance.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Interesting comments there. I took an STI for a test drive last year and came away very disappointed - the engine was totally gutless before about 3.5-4k, which is where I spend most of my driving when I'm not in a mad rush to get somewhere. It was especially noticeable pulling onto roundabouts and into junctions, where you'll never be in the power band unless you want to ruin the clutch. When I got back in my PPP-equipped MY00 to drive back home the difference was startling.

I wouldn't even consider an STI without PPP.

corradoboy

A m8 of mine was unhappy with his STi PPP's performance so took it down to TSL. After a while on the RR the mapping guy (supposedly Carlos Sainz' engine techie ?) stated that it was possibly the worst map he'd ever seen. At 3k revs it was fuelling for 5.5k, which explained the explosive sudden surge of power as the boost kicked in and then running out of steam by 5.5k. £500 later and a new map and it pulls smoothly from 2.5k all the way to redline. PPP isn't always all it's cracked up to be, I suppose it depends who fits it and, more importantly, who does the map.

Gutmann pug

Richard bulmer mate .....he is the TSL daddy

ThrustSSC

Like all these things it's a personal preference thing - I got used to living in the 4-6k revs band when I wanted to get a move on, but I have to say the PPP made my life a lot easier getting to work down the lanes

mrklaw

I'm leaning towards using potential PPP money for cosmetic mods, and maybe some new wheels.

I quite enjoy keeping it in the active revs when I want to keep on my toes. Burbling around town it can be boggy but going to the shops I don't really care.

Blobster

Agree with Andyc772, I took a non PPP MY03 STi for a test drive and came away disappointed. It felt slower than my non WR RB5 primarily because the boost seemed to come in much later - between 3.5k+4k.

You pays your money......

Blobster

Sti_Lad

Ive had my My03 Sti for 10 Months now and am totally loving it...

got 317 bhp on G Forces rollers (its got PPP and Decat + filter) and 305 Ft Lbs

Love every minute of driving it Hence the recent excursion to France in it (3000 Miles!)

Had the car for a month before PPP and it just brought it to life I feel. Power delivery is smoother hence why you dont feel the big kick, but surely that has to be kinder to your transmission!?!?!? And when you look at your speedo, your doing some impressive speeds

davedipster

I agree, PPP is on the back burner cos in the right gear the std STI seemed just as fast and more fun than the ppp one.
Alot of money for 1k of low down driveability me thinks.

What do the engine mappers think of the std and ppp maps?

Dipster

lmsbman

Like others have said, I suppose its a personal preference thing. I find my MY02 Sti much more 'liveable' now its got PPP. Admittedly you dont get the kick in the back, but after a while that gets on your nerves. Unfortunately I do a lot of town driving and the PPP version is so much easier to drive on urban roads. When I do give it some welly, its quite a bit quicker than the standard version.

davedipster

Thanks for the replys, looks like I'll be saving my money and not getting ppp.

Dipster

STI @ 21

I have heard nothing great about the PPP and I didn't decide to get it, but go the third party route instead. I spent about £1400 all up including fitting for a custom exhaust, fuel pump plugs, and Ecutek mapping, and am not reliably informed by my mapper that I am running in the region of 330-350bhp. Haven't had it rolling roaded yet, am waiting to get the suspension done, so that all the power is put on the rollers. Anyway its worht considering this way, as the Ecutek is what the ppp uses, as is the fuel pump, the only difference is I have a de cat down pipe and a custom back box other than that its basically the same as ppp. Mpg on mine is fine, did London to Preston on 3/4 of a tank running at 80 ish, and then it went on with some thrashing when I got back to do 280 miles to the tank. If I was you I would save £400 or so pounds get a better sounding exhaust and much more power. Have had the car since June last year, and its had its exhaust on since about October and have no problems with the car at all. Worth thinking about I think anyways.

Chris

MTR

Dave Dipster,
I posted this quite some time back on this thread.

[url]http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthread.php?t=180143[/url

I own an STi7, and was concerned about the benefits of spending another £2K on an already expensive, and already fast car.

Having now spent my money having the PPP kit fitted, in my opinion, having owned a MY98,MY99,MY00 and now the STi7, would say the transformation in nothing short of incredable.

The original useable power band was from about 3750 rpm to 6000rpm (max power), and below the lower figure, power and performance was abysmal.

If you didn't rev the car it simply wouldn't go.
Get caught in the wrong gear overtaking and you would be in trouble.

It was without doubt the most unenjoyable Impreza Turbo I had owned for normal/brisk driving.
It was ALL or NOTHING in the way performance was delivered.
Flat out with 6000rpm changes its fine, but that is tiresome, and a somewhat frenetic way to make progress.

Now after PPP kit, the useable power band goes from 2000rpm to 6000rpm (max power), with the car pulling strongly from 2500rpm.

On the road the car is so tractable it doesn't feel like the same car. It is that much better.

Its possible to short shift at 3500rpm and be moving very briskly.
Not reving your engine to an early grave, and incredibly relaxing swift progress are both possible.

In all out performance figures the two cars may not be miles apart, but in the real world driving situation, then they are poles apart.

Std it would struggle pulling 2000rpm in any gear, ie 40mph in 5th (the same gearing and revs/mph as 4th gear in the classic shape, which they easily pull).
After PPP it will accelerate from that figure smoothly and with a very small increase in rpm begins to accelerate strongly.

These are only my opinions on the mod, I don't work for Subaru, or Prodrive, I work for BAE Sytems, but they may help someone, who like myself was very uncertain about commiting to even more expense.

I had reached the point were the enjoyment I was getting from driving the car was reducing. It was becoming a *** to drive, and I couldn't afford to sell it with the drop in used values meaning I would take a very large hit.

I can honestly say that as for long as I can afford it, there isn't another car I would want to own in preference to the STi7+PPP.

The extra £2000 you spend may stop you selling the car and losing an awful lot more money.

That sounds like my wifes logic, spend money to save money.
But in this case it may be true, in a perverse way.

Cheer MTR

madisonmonkey

iTrader: (4)

It's an STI for a reason guys. If you wanted a nice sensible power delivery you should have bought some thing else. I suppose you don't like the overly firm suspension either?

madisonmonkey. 03STI typeUK owner.

Steven Coomber

Hey madisonmonkey.

Got my old Scoobysport Backbox fitted yet?

Steve

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Hm... not especially helpful. You're right, I didn't like the hard suspension either - but that's fixable, just like the all-or-nothing power delivery. Do people not want to commute to work and back in their £25k cars? I'd love a WRX for daily driving and an STI for track days, but it's not going to happen.

When it got going, I liked the STI's extra power. I liked the slick gearchange, the excellent Brembo brakes and the comfy bucket seats. Turn-in was sharp and steering feel an improvement over my MY00.

In short, the ride quality and power delivery were my only complaints - but they were enough to put me off the car. What I want is an STI with a suspension kit and PPP.

Bugger. Are there any WR1s left in stock anywhere?

madisonmonkey

iTrader: (4)

Sorry to hijack briefly dipster.

Hi Steve. Yep the box is on and just the job. Sounds sweet. Thanks, Monkey.

Hijack over.

madisonmonkey

iTrader: (4)

andy c. The STI isn't made for commuting, it's made for driving. Two totally different things. Yeah it's a bit flat below 3k, but then so are most turbo'd performance cars. If I'd wanted a car to drive to work that had great pick up from 1500rpm i'd have bought a diesel. Every drive's an event in the STI. My old PPP'd WRX was far more tractable but also a bit dull. You do indeed pay your money and take your choice. Just my opinion.

monkey.

ThrustSSC

Sorry, but I disagree. The STI isn't made for pootling round in heavy slow traffic in the middle of London, but it's awesome for commuting in Cheers me up on the way to work, cheers me up on the way home The PPP just makes it one hell of a lot nicer on those mornings when you don't want to have to work so hard...

MTR

Madisonmonkey,
I don't quite follow were you are heading with your reasoning.

The question posed is 'does the PPP kit make a std STi faster'?
The answer(proven on Prodrives test track and figures were published, is an emphatic YES).

Do you think that the Std STi is better than the PPP equipped car?

If so, how do you come to that conclusion?

Have you driven an STi PPP?

On test under all parameters, the Std car is slower through the gears and in gear acceleration, and top speed!!

In my opinion after 6 1/2 years of Impreza Turbo ownership (all brand new cars) MY98,MY99 (Scoobysport B/B + Magnex centre), MY00 (Prodrive B/B, P1 decat centre + Scoobysport downpipe) then STI MY02 type UK, then STi with PPP.

The STI is without doubt the fastest of the cars I've owned, and very easy to drive.

Turbo lag is not a positive attribute to any car, and the WRC teams spend vast amounts of time and money in development to try and virtually eliminate it.
With good reason. It slows down the A to B times of the car.

I once followed a Lancia Delta Integrali rally car on one of the Northern Meets, which when it came on boost shot away from me, but up to 4K+ rpm it was atrocious.
Once I was in front in my then Std MY99, I left him.
While his car was getting ready for blast off ie building excrutiatingly slowly up to 4K+ rpm my car was pulling like a train from 2.5K rpm and was gone.

The same effect is readily visible with my STi 02 PPP and my friends Std STi 02. His is slower.

Dave Dipster,
I recomend you take a test drive with a PPP STI, and then you will have a basis to make a decision.

Cheers
MTR

davedipster

Funny you should say that, yesterday I had some spare time so I visited my local friendly dealer and did a back to back test of my std sti and their ppp'd demo sti.
My first testdrive of a ppp'd sti was last year when i was buying, unfortunatly there was Four of us in the car. not a good way to test drive a sports car, hence the ppp didn't feel faster than the std car I drove a few days before-dumb i know.

So to the test drive yesterday...
It just proves that the only testing worth doing is back to back seat of the pants testing, and the winner by a long margin is the ppp'd car.
Not only is it faster everywhere, it is easier to get off, and faster off the line by a significant amount.
So I'm now £2k lighter and it's being fitted as soon as it arrives at the dealers.

Eating words now

Dipster

MTR

Enjoy

Cheers
MTR

Phil Harrison

I join with those who advocate PPP. While admitting that, unmodded, MY03 makes slightly better use of the same raw figures than MY02, my 02 was transformed by PPP. True, when 'on the boil' it merely makes an extremely fast car even faster , but I found the driveability benefits at the bottom of the envelope were most marked. In particular not having to keep changing down every time some minor obstruction or potential danger made you lift off for a moment, or when you just want to drive away from that 69mph Motorway overtake

Cheers

Phil

STI @ 21

I was chatting to a guy the other day who got his standard STI8 type uk rolling road tested alongside an owner of a PPP version. The Standard put out a nice 273 bhp, where as the PPP was just under the 300 mark. Prodrive are still under some constraints as to emissions and other standards which means they can't get everything out of the car that they would on a track, or rally. This is why I feel that if your not worried about the warranty, your better off getting the after market parts and a complete decat. You will save at least £500, and will get bhp and torgue figures far higher then you can with the PPP kit. Also if your carefull like I was you can get the exact same parts as are used on the PPP cars, i.e ecutek, fuel pump. Haven't had mine rolling road tested yet, but have had a few blasts against a P1 which my brother owns, and numerous STI8s both PPPd and not, and have come up on top all the time. The PPP is great if you want to keep your warranty, but for the £2000 you can get so much more out of the car. Also there is no point in spending the money on power if you can't get it on the road. This is my next project and I reckon about £1300 on an awesome suspension setup, will make the car amazing and so much faster. Already got a rear anti roll bar fitted, and the difference in handling and speed is amazing. Just my opinion, thats the fun of moddig your car everyone is going to do it a different way, have fun with your car.

Chris

madisonmonkey

iTrader: (4)

MTR and any others, please don't get me wrong.I'm not knocking PPP. The question in this thread was actually does PPP really make a big difference on the road. So with that in mind my reasoning is as follows;

-If you believe prodrives quoted figures then it is quicker but I would question the relevance of this small increase when you consider the perfomance of the standard car "on the road".
-In my opinion the power delivery of the standard car forms a large part of it's character. It's an all or nothing kind of vehicle.
-A car with a linear power delivery will be more tractable but in my opinion it's just not as much fun. I like the kick in the back!
-A car that is easy to drive and effortless in serving up performance isn't always a good thing. Read EVO's end of term on their M3.

In conclusion, I can't help thinking that attempting to make an STI easier to live with kinda defeats the object. Surely thats where the WRX PPP comes in? I would never say that extra power was a bad thing but PPP? I'm still unconvinced.

Again, all just my opinion. Very interesting reading.
monkey.

MTR

Madison Monkey,
My car has to fulfill its role as 'the family car' as well as being my indulgence.

What finally put the nail in its coffin in std form, so to speak, was a trip back to Manchester from Soth Wales.
When attempting to overtake slower traffic, its wasn't possible to gently and smoothly waft past them.
It always ended up being a 4000 to 6000rpm tharsh with the very evident 'kick' you so acuratelly describe.

The wife and children were not at all happy, and to be honest neither was I.
It becomes tiresome.

In contrast the same trip now can be conducted with equal verve, but driver and possibly more importantly, passengers nerves are not frayed.
They will happily sit there even when accelerating quite hard, because of its far more linear power delivery.

The net result is they and I are happy, even though we may be going faster at times than when the car was std.

I have the performance level I want, they get the 'comfort' they want.

From a purley selfish point of view, I would probably prefer a Lotus/Westfield 7 of some derivative.
But in saying that, I may not enjoy one of those as much as I used to.

I'm must be growing old gracefully.

Cheers
MTR