What No compression....
15 April 2004, 04:39 PM
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What No compression....
Purchased the Scooby last year, from a trusted source. Took it to a very well known name, for MOT & a few other bits couple of weeks ago.
Received a call from the company, explaining that the engine was not at it's best, and it seemed to be quite lumpy on tick over. After explaining that the engine was quite un-settled for a few seconds from cold start, after a blip it then settled down a ran normal, well what I considered to be normal.
Then the horror stories came out, your engine is only running on virtually 3 cylinders, may be a holled piston or burnt valve. No way I thought, when I drove the car to the garage it ran perfect, to the degree that at one stage I thought the engine had stopped, when I pulled up at some lights, it ran that smooth, I could not take this in.
Then of course all sorts of things were crossing my mind, how can this be..!!They then went on to explain, that the problem has probably been there since you took ownership of the car & even before that the guy who owned it previous may not have been aware,, this blew my mind.
Since I've had the car its power delivery has been mind blowing, not suprising after I was advised it was well over 300 BHP. Now I'm told its very probably 30/40 BHP down, this did not equate, considering the power it seemed to be throwing out.
End result is No 4 cylinder is showing nil compression, very likely to be a valve problem, as a holled piston would smoke like billy 'o' The car is in for some extensive engine work & other changes now, so will expect some big changes to actual power output.
My advice after this experience is:
If buying a second had scooby, demand a compression test, ticking over you just can't tell, or lets say its very difficult. even with an ignition lead taken off you would find it difficult to notice, obviously there's a power loss, but from my side & understanding the in's and out's of a performance engine I had not noticed.
This is a possibly un-noticed problem which would as you can imagine end up in a very expensive engine bill, do your checks, my car went like stink, its an RA so the gear box alone leads you to believe its quicker than normal.
I'm no continual thrash merchant, I do tend to potter around, and on occassions it has a foot full, however this has krept up un-noticed.
The car has been to another Scooby garage for a full service & other reasons, they have now closed, never mind who they were I trusted them & they to did not notice the fault.
I just thought this may be of interest to you guy's, especially those new to Subaru's, but also to those of you who have owned their cars for a while.
Simple question: are you sure all is what it seems & can anybody really notice the odd couple of tens of horsepower disappearing.
The Intergrity of the garage it's at now is certainly not in question here.
1994, Impreza RA (73K)
PNB..........
Received a call from the company, explaining that the engine was not at it's best, and it seemed to be quite lumpy on tick over. After explaining that the engine was quite un-settled for a few seconds from cold start, after a blip it then settled down a ran normal, well what I considered to be normal.
Then the horror stories came out, your engine is only running on virtually 3 cylinders, may be a holled piston or burnt valve. No way I thought, when I drove the car to the garage it ran perfect, to the degree that at one stage I thought the engine had stopped, when I pulled up at some lights, it ran that smooth, I could not take this in.
Then of course all sorts of things were crossing my mind, how can this be..!!They then went on to explain, that the problem has probably been there since you took ownership of the car & even before that the guy who owned it previous may not have been aware,, this blew my mind.
Since I've had the car its power delivery has been mind blowing, not suprising after I was advised it was well over 300 BHP. Now I'm told its very probably 30/40 BHP down, this did not equate, considering the power it seemed to be throwing out.
End result is No 4 cylinder is showing nil compression, very likely to be a valve problem, as a holled piston would smoke like billy 'o' The car is in for some extensive engine work & other changes now, so will expect some big changes to actual power output.
My advice after this experience is:
If buying a second had scooby, demand a compression test, ticking over you just can't tell, or lets say its very difficult. even with an ignition lead taken off you would find it difficult to notice, obviously there's a power loss, but from my side & understanding the in's and out's of a performance engine I had not noticed.
This is a possibly un-noticed problem which would as you can imagine end up in a very expensive engine bill, do your checks, my car went like stink, its an RA so the gear box alone leads you to believe its quicker than normal.
I'm no continual thrash merchant, I do tend to potter around, and on occassions it has a foot full, however this has krept up un-noticed.
The car has been to another Scooby garage for a full service & other reasons, they have now closed, never mind who they were I trusted them & they to did not notice the fault.
I just thought this may be of interest to you guy's, especially those new to Subaru's, but also to those of you who have owned their cars for a while.
Simple question: are you sure all is what it seems & can anybody really notice the odd couple of tens of horsepower disappearing.
The Intergrity of the garage it's at now is certainly not in question here.
1994, Impreza RA (73K)
PNB..........
15 April 2004, 08:14 PM
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Red Rocket
That's unfortunate to hear, what were the symptoms, and what lead you to discover this......
I was gob smacked
PNB
That's unfortunate to hear, what were the symptoms, and what lead you to discover this......
I was gob smacked
PNB
15 April 2004, 08:43 PM
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Have you had a second opinion before you start spending loads of cash, , seems strange that your cars making 300 bhp on 3 cylinders, and seem's fine
H
H
Last edited by suggs; 15 April 2004 at 08:54 PM.
15 April 2004, 09:46 PM
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Don't need a second opinion, I trust the guy's implicitly who diagnosed the fault. Would not have believed it if I had'nt seen it for my own eyes, removed plug lead 4 and it made absolutley no difference at all to the engine at tick over.
Reference to 300 BHP, this is what I had been advised by the original owner, anything on the plus side of 250/260 bhp connected to a quaiffe gearbox is going to be quick, so I guess this is the reason it felt so fast. It also had a quite exhaust system so being fooled by noise was not an option, leading me to believe it sounded quicker than it actually was.
My thread is just to make people aware of a potential problem, and so far already one person has answered suffering similar problems.
PNB
Reference to 300 BHP, this is what I had been advised by the original owner, anything on the plus side of 250/260 bhp connected to a quaiffe gearbox is going to be quick, so I guess this is the reason it felt so fast. It also had a quite exhaust system so being fooled by noise was not an option, leading me to believe it sounded quicker than it actually was.
My thread is just to make people aware of a potential problem, and so far already one person has answered suffering similar problems.
PNB
15 April 2004, 10:12 PM
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You can normally check for a duff piston/cylinder by listening to the engine as it turns over - if it turnover speed is irregular you are down on compression 
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15 April 2004, 11:04 PM
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agree with wwsd they sound diferent when they crank for a split second it cranks quicker then back to normal. also you can feel a miss in the exhaust gasses out the tailpipe. but then i do work on them everyday so it's probably a bit more obvious to me
16 April 2004, 12:33 AM
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PNB
Had a slight missfire on tick over and the exhaust note changed, i removed plug lead to find no difference, so i removed the plug to find it was oiled up.
Had it checked like you by a very reliable source only to find no compression.
Wont know the damage until it is stripped down.
Red.
Had a slight missfire on tick over and the exhaust note changed, i removed plug lead to find no difference, so i removed the plug to find it was oiled up.
Had it checked like you by a very reliable source only to find no compression.
Wont know the damage until it is stripped down.
Red.
16 April 2004, 08:33 AM
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That's just happened to my Land Rover. Bloody lost compression on 2 different cylinders on opposite banks, as the piston rings had pulled themselves apart for some reason. It's getting sorted out now though, at a far greater cost than I had in mind
If it happens, you tend to notice a lumpy tickover, & distinct lack of power on acceleration - get it checked out before you buy, as it's far cheaper than getting it fixed afterwards.
Not an experience I want to repeat
If it happens, you tend to notice a lumpy tickover, & distinct lack of power on acceleration - get it checked out before you buy, as it's far cheaper than getting it fixed afterwards.
Not an experience I want to repeat
16 April 2004, 03:45 PM
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Start up was a little bit un-even, but sadly thought it was the nature of the beast.
the motor has always turned over this way, but unless pointed out I could not tell.
Ive spannered in a Performance centre setting up all sorts on rollers for many years, and like to think I was pretty clued up on something like this problem, but wow I was so shocked.
Red Rocket, my thoughts are with you £££££££
Suggs, do scooby engines go bang for no reason, because of valve Problems...
Franx, Tuff luck guy, just shows extreme amounts of BHP is'nt always to blame !!!!
Live & learn everyday
PNB
the motor has always turned over this way, but unless pointed out I could not tell.
Ive spannered in a Performance centre setting up all sorts on rollers for many years, and like to think I was pretty clued up on something like this problem, but wow I was so shocked.
Red Rocket, my thoughts are with you £££££££
Suggs, do scooby engines go bang for no reason, because of valve Problems...
Franx, Tuff luck guy, just shows extreme amounts of BHP is'nt always to blame !!!!
Live & learn everyday
PNB
16 April 2004, 06:58 PM
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Suggs, do scooby engines go bang for no reason, because of valve Problems...
not sure mate, but i have herd a lot of them tend to go kaboom, probley more to do with to many mod's making the car more powerfull than the piston rating, a garage i use done several rebuilds last winter.
Suggs
not sure mate, but i have herd a lot of them tend to go kaboom, probley more to do with to many mod's making the car more powerfull than the piston rating, a garage i use done several rebuilds last winter.
Suggs
17 April 2004, 10:37 AM
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would be interesting to know, if there are other owners having suffered low compression problems, which has gone by un-noticed until a cylinder / engine has given up the ghost.
17 April 2004, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by pnbond007
Franx, Tuff luck guy, just shows extreme amounts of BHP is'nt always to blame !!!!
hardly extreme though.... Not a lot for a 3.5V8 either
17 April 2004, 01:30 PM
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Tony,
No knock link fitted, which will be in the plan of things very shortly, though to be honest I very rarely push it. Plus a dump valve, whick make escapes me at the moment, though I think its a Blitz.
Fuel used, 99% of the time Optimax & the occasional BP Ultra or what ever they call it.
Franx,
I used to have a 300 TDI landrover discovery, it pulled the linning from inside the intercooler pipe & nearly screwed the turbo, but for a big motor I found it quite nimble on journies through long twisty roads, giving the odd Burberry clad Nove boy a suprise.
You know the type, oh I have a slow four wheel drive in front i must overtake, then when you wind the landy up they have to try real hard....
PNB
No knock link fitted, which will be in the plan of things very shortly, though to be honest I very rarely push it. Plus a dump valve, whick make escapes me at the moment, though I think its a Blitz.
Fuel used, 99% of the time Optimax & the occasional BP Ultra or what ever they call it.
Franx,
I used to have a 300 TDI landrover discovery, it pulled the linning from inside the intercooler pipe & nearly screwed the turbo, but for a big motor I found it quite nimble on journies through long twisty roads, giving the odd Burberry clad Nove boy a suprise.
You know the type, oh I have a slow four wheel drive in front i must overtake, then when you wind the landy up they have to try real hard....
PNB
17 April 2004, 02:39 PM
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Definately sounds like you had a bit of det there
You should really be putting in octane booster with that optimax/BP ultimate to get the ron value up to 100, the knocklink will tell you if your detting, quite amazingly you will find you can det quite happily in the midrange without any problems (which is scary
) so you need to look out for that.
Fingers crossed you get it all sorted out in the end though
Tony
You should really be putting in octane booster with that optimax/BP ultimate to get the ron value up to 100, the knocklink will tell you if your detting, quite amazingly you will find you can det quite happily in the midrange without any problems (which is scary
) so you need to look out for that.Fingers crossed you get it all sorted out in the end though
Tony
17 April 2004, 06:46 PM
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Thanks Tony,
I will be using an octane booster, but need to find out which would be the best one to use.
My motor is in very capable hands and should be completed over the next couple of weeks, I'm looking forward to feeling the real power this engine has got, but again I don't really push it, I just enjoy the car.
I do take on board the mid range comments, the car has quite a low ratio quaiffe gearbox, it rev's quite well at pretty low speeds, but dear me it covers ground fast upto about 125/130.
Thanks for your comments, I will invest in a knock link very soon.
I'm still reasonably new to scoobynet, but really do appreciate other peoples opinions.
Cheers
PNB
I will be using an octane booster, but need to find out which would be the best one to use.
My motor is in very capable hands and should be completed over the next couple of weeks, I'm looking forward to feeling the real power this engine has got, but again I don't really push it, I just enjoy the car.
I do take on board the mid range comments, the car has quite a low ratio quaiffe gearbox, it rev's quite well at pretty low speeds, but dear me it covers ground fast upto about 125/130.
Thanks for your comments, I will invest in a knock link very soon.
I'm still reasonably new to scoobynet, but really do appreciate other peoples opinions.
Cheers
PNB
20 April 2004, 09:53 PM
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Just had same thing happen to me too. Was collecting car from work on Saturday and was just tootling out of the works to take the motor for some, I thought, minor work. Guy at work said to me on Monday that it sounded like I was only firing on 3 cylinders.
I was a bit dismissive at the time as I have had car for 15 months now with no apparent power loss when booted (rarely done anyway).
Anyway got the dredded 'no compression on #2' call today so investigations on-going. Just waiting for ££££ damage as not expecting it to be a cheap repair. Garage reckons could be a melted piston as was having slight oil plumage problem but this only seemed to happen after coasting down whilst in gear and then suddenly pulling away gain with some boost.
Car only ever run on Optimax with no octane boost, but after reading various threads on the subject will def look at using unless the ECU can be remapped for UK fuel specs.
This forum is great, just wish I'd done a bit more digging a few months ago as having to save some cash up now.
We live & learn,
PM
I was a bit dismissive at the time as I have had car for 15 months now with no apparent power loss when booted (rarely done anyway).
Anyway got the dredded 'no compression on #2' call today so investigations on-going. Just waiting for ££££ damage as not expecting it to be a cheap repair. Garage reckons could be a melted piston as was having slight oil plumage problem but this only seemed to happen after coasting down whilst in gear and then suddenly pulling away gain with some boost.
Car only ever run on Optimax with no octane boost, but after reading various threads on the subject will def look at using unless the ECU can be remapped for UK fuel specs.
This forum is great, just wish I'd done a bit more digging a few months ago as having to save some cash up now.
We live & learn,
PM
20 April 2004, 10:01 PM
#23
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Its not just me then? 
My 205 Mi16 has just been diagnosed today with big end failure. Losing 25-35% compression on all cylinders and using a litre of oil per 100 miles.
Need a full rebuild at circa £1500-2000.
My 205 Mi16 has just been diagnosed today with big end failure. Losing 25-35% compression on all cylinders and using a litre of oil per 100 miles.
Need a full rebuild at circa £1500-2000.
20 April 2004, 10:52 PM
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Hi Guys
Heard the results yesterday, my No.2 piston MELTED. Not on the top but down the side and a broken ring.
Also the bore is damaged.
Red.
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ £££££££££££££
Heard the results yesterday, my No.2 piston MELTED. Not on the top but down the side and a broken ring.
Also the bore is damaged.
Red.
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ £££££££££££££
20 April 2004, 11:02 PM
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Jees,
That's going to be a hefty bill red rocket, I only hope mine is as simple as a valve problem, very concerned now, though the garage has not indicated anymore than previously diagnosed.
This seems to be a not so common problem it seems, I know what I will be asking for should I buy another Scooby, or infact anything in future.... 'Compression test'
PNB
That's going to be a hefty bill red rocket, I only hope mine is as simple as a valve problem, very concerned now, though the garage has not indicated anymore than previously diagnosed.
This seems to be a not so common problem it seems, I know what I will be asking for should I buy another Scooby, or infact anything in future.... 'Compression test'
PNB
21 April 2004, 07:41 AM
#26
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The problem is, compression tests dont really work that well - my 205 was reading well at 180psi per pot, with only a 4 psi jump adding oil. That would suggest the rings are fine, but they are not.
When I buy a Scoob I will get a leak down test done first I think.
When I buy a Scoob I will get a leak down test done first I think.
21 April 2004, 03:52 PM
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D'Oh!
Just had the diagnosis. Melted piston on #2 with major scouring down the cylinder liner. Been advised cost is >£1500 as new block required. Could have rebore with larger forged pistons but again >£1000.
Still weighing up the pros and cons of various repairs as am intending to sell car as moving abroad. Just don't want anyone to buy it with knacked piston so may well go for full bifter repair.
Damn, these thing are expensive.
PM
Just had the diagnosis. Melted piston on #2 with major scouring down the cylinder liner. Been advised cost is >£1500 as new block required. Could have rebore with larger forged pistons but again >£1000.
Still weighing up the pros and cons of various repairs as am intending to sell car as moving abroad. Just don't want anyone to buy it with knacked piston so may well go for full bifter repair.
Damn, these thing are expensive.
PM
21 April 2004, 05:48 PM
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Garage not entirely sure. The damage was as yours RR, i.e. meleted down the side between the rings which caused some pretty bad gouging.
The compression on that cylinder was 30psig whilst the others were >120psig. Suspected det problems although this maybe attributable to dodgy MAF?
Still working out what to do at the mo. New block and pistons approx £2000+ whilst re-honing and new rings and piston £1000. One has warranty the other doesn't!
Aaaaargh......PM
The compression on that cylinder was 30psig whilst the others were >120psig. Suspected det problems although this maybe attributable to dodgy MAF?
Still working out what to do at the mo. New block and pistons approx £2000+ whilst re-honing and new rings and piston £1000. One has warranty the other doesn't!
Aaaaargh......PM