WR-one

Hasn’t been a WR1 thread for a while so here’s a controversial one (well at least to those with WR1 orders!) – I do honestly believe that Subaru and Prodrive has missed a golden opportunity with the WR1 to produce a car in the same way they did with the P1. The P1 was a UK equivalent (near enough) to the then top Jap spec cars ie. 2 door shell, 280 bhp etc, that was not available on any UK car at that time. Now we have the WR1, which is frankly a mile away from the Jap spec cars ,which are lapping Bedford way quicker than the WR1. The Spec C was considered an evo beater but I can’t see the WR1 ever being classed as that. What they should have done, as the P1, was to have produced a UK car based on the jap spec car/engine giving jap spec performance. The WR1 comparing it to the P1 figures laps Bedford only marginally quicker than the P1 and has comparable performance figures. The P1 is a 4 year old car!! – that’s my point. I have a P1 now which is worth £18K at best (cost £30K) – do I really want to find another £12K and another s**itload of depreciation for a car that in overall performance terms I will hardly spot the difference ?

ozzy

I'm pretty sure a decent 10yr old car could lap just as quickly. I'd be more worried about things starting to go wrong and high maintenance bills from a 4yr old car. One of the reasons I'm considering trading in my RB5 for a new STI PPP. Trouble is, it didn't feel vastly quicker than my own car. I also prefer the look of my car, but the STI wins hands down on quality, better enginer and better gearbox.

Looks like I'd need to find another £15K to upgrade.

Think you have to ask yourself why you'd want a new car and not just based on raw performance. At the end of the day the WR1 is just as quick as your P1 and it's brand spanking new, with a full warranty and possibly another 4 years of trouble-free motoring.

Stefan

greasemonkey

What did you expect? The development cycle for the P1 was (at a very rough guess) something like eighteen months. The WR1 on the other hand seems to have been developed in less than four.

That's not really correct. There were loads of differences between the P1 and the STi5 Type R. In fact, the WR1 is arguably closer to its Japanese market equivalent than the P1 was. The WR1 has the same transmission, and is more powerful out of the box than the Japanese STi GL.

What, exactly, do you mean by "the Jap spec cars"? It's not like all the JDM cars are the Spec C. The WR1 is a contemporary of the Japanese STi "GL" model, and far from being "a mile away", it is, apart from a few details under the bonnet, either the same as or better than the Japanese equivalent.

While it has a different specification engine, notably lacking the equal length headers and twin scroll turbo of the Japanese market car, WR1 has the same bodyshell, same transmission, same general interior spec, arguably better suspension, bigger wheels with (arguably better for road use) Pirelli tyres on them.

Sorry, but you're starting to sound like a bit of a tit now, you're missing the point completely here.

The Spec C is a low volume, lightweight homologation special, not the mass-market JDM STi you are making it out to be. Yes, it is the fastest, rawest, roadgoing Impreza currently available in Japan. Yes, it is an "Evo beater" (whatever the f**k that means). However, it is not the car you should be comparing the WR1 with. The Spec C is not designed as a fully rounded roadcar, as evidenced by its lack of aircon, electric windows, boot carpet and so-on.

The Spec C is almost literally a roadgoing version of the current Group N cars, complete with a load of bits (big intercooler spray tank, oil/power steering coolers) that the roadcars just don't need, and a load of weight reductions that were done to lower the homologation weight as far as possible, enabling the rallycars to run to a lower weight limit. The "normal" Japanese STi's are heavier, and have a performance and general specification level very similar to the STi Type UK.

Yes, IM/Prodrive could, no doubt, if they'd wanted to, developed a car along the lightweight Spec C type ethos. However, that wasn't their intention. They've developed a car with the full compliment of expected toys, excellent road manners and driveability, along with more raw performance than is available from any current UK market Impreza.

Er, they have. While the engine may not be the latest Japanese specification, it's the same general spec as the one used on the 2002 model year mass-market STi GL (and Spec C come to think of it), and as for "jap spec performance", whatever you think that means, the WR1 has more power out of the box than any Japanese market Impreza.

So what? I doubt the car's relative performance with the P1 around a track was high on Prodrive's list of development priorities, especially given the development time and budget available.

Apart from you having a general bitch and moan, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

If your general line is that "the P1 is four year old technology, why isn't the WR1 quicker round a lap of Bedford?", the answer's a complex one, but largely due to weight. All cars are bigger and heavier now than they were (the WR1 is probably 200kg heavier than the P1), which explains a lot.

This is a reality across the motor industry. The Evo VIII is considerably heavier than the Evo VI. It may not have occurred to you to look, but none of Peugeot's current line of hot hatches, for example, accelerates as quick to 60mph as the 20 year old 205 1.9 GTi. So much for new technology!

To be blunt, that should have been a question you asked prior to placing your order for the WR1 (assuming you've ordered one). This car was never intended to be the "fastest Impreza on the planet" (whatever that is), or indeed to compete with the Spec C for track honours. It was intended to be the most accomplished current shape Impreza available from a UK dealer.

If you wanted a car that was faster in absolute terms than your P1, you should have cast your net a little wider. If you want to justify "another £12K and a sh*tload of depreciation", that's something you'll have to settle in your own head.

WR1

Not sure anything has been missed, the WR1 I presume is aimed at owners who want a UK supplied car with a little extra, simple as that.

I have ordered a WR1 and am very much looking forward to getting it. None of the threads I have read on here or articles such as the EVO have put me off one jot. In fact, I'm looking forward to the car more than ever now

Personally I think you need to decide why you would want to buy a WR1 (or Spec C or Type 25 or whatever) and if it's right for you then sod what anyone else thinks. Only you know whether you will feel happy or can afford to deal with the depreciation or any other aspect of a new car.

For myself, I want a UK car, end of story.

I don't care whether it does 0-60 in 4.25 secs or 5.5 secs, either is fine by me.

I don't have the desire to drive the car at the limits (nor probably the skills required to do so). I prefer to drive rapidly within my own limits rather than attempt to drive to the cars limits and find I cannot cope

Roll on the WR1 I say...

ozzy

IAlthough I think it's pricey for a UK car (and an Impreza), I have to agree with WR1.

Whether it does a fraction more or less to 60 than a P1 or laps only a fraction of a second quicker is completely irrelevant unless you plan on competing with other Impreza's on a race circuit.

Personally I gave up listening to most magazine articles years ago, because they'll always be arguments for and against with anything. Just pick up a computer magazine and try buying a PC based on their articles.

The influencing factors with the WR1 should be affordability, performance benefits and trim levels over other models in the range and the colour IMHO.

Stefan

DBY

As ever GM cuts to the chase and hits the old nail on the head.

Regards

John

ozzy

ROFLMAO, I missed that one

Stefan

Tchort

There are so many "what subaru is better" posts at the moment. I just don't get why people want to get justification for there purchase from a bunch of unknown people.

Surely you get the car 'YOU' want not the one everyone tells you is better.

I recently purchased a P1 because I wanted one after I took it for a spin, for me it had everything I wanted.

The point i'm trying to make here is people buy cars for lots of different reasons and manufacturers try to cater for different tastes, I'm not sure IM were trying to build a P1/T25/Spec C beater.

not sure i made my point, just get the car you want and enjoy it, you never know it may not even be a subaru.

DrEvil

Greasemonkey ROFL Harsh but true.

4.25 secs compared to the P1's 4.6 (wasn't it) seems more than a fraction faster..

Nick

OK, here's why I've ordered a WR1. I was initially considering a WRX with PPP or STi with PPP. Now I've owned a 99my Turbo before & I know to expect that I would want to upgrade wheels, brakes & suspension at some time in the future. So, if I bought an STi for £25k, I'd want a PPP at £2k, then some wheels at £2k, then uprated springs at the least. We're already at £29k (subject to dealer discounts). Then I looked at the WR1, it already had the stuff I would have wanted, plus the DCCD, some rarity, cool seats, all really for only an extra £1k or so.

Well, that's how I sold the idea to my wife....



..........edited to fix typo & grammar

WR-one

thanks gm....I stand corrected - so as I understand it then progress over 4 years since the P1 means - (1) bigger heavier cars, (2) less development time spent on them, (3) slower 0-60's (4) using older generation (less powerful) engines than those they could have used .... the result - an overall performance package that could have been significantly improved upon over the P1 and UK PPP STI's.

greasemonkey

Stop thinking of this car as some sort of successor or competitor to the P1. It is not. What it is, as stated earlier, is a more accomplished, more fully featured version of the STi Type UK.

Yes. Like I said, look across the motor industry, cars in each segment are getting bigger and heavier all the time. Just compare the size and weight of the Mk1 Golf with the latest one. Over eighteen inches longer, and nearly twice as heavy!

Bigger cars obviously tend to be heavier cars when all other things are equal, while much of the weight comes from the need to meet more and more stringent crash testing regimes. In the Impreza's case, quite a lot has gone into improving cabin quality and generally decreasing noise, vibration and harshness

That's not a reflection of the motor industry in general, that's an issue with the WR1 programme in particular. While it was already known that the 265ps/DCCD STi would be coming to the UK in small quantities, it seems as though the full green light to make it a "special edition" only came after Solberg won the World Championship last November.

It would appear that IM, at that point, had a choice between either flogging the car as it came, or making it a little more special. It's the latter route they chose, and to be honest it would be unrealistic to have expected Prodrive to do any more than they have. Three or four months is f**k all time in normal motor industry development terms.

If you'd wanted a longer developed, more extensively altered special edition, you could have been waiting until next November for it. A bit late to celebrate Solberg's 2003 World Championship, no?

Who cares about 0-60's? In any case, the official figures for the P1 and the WR1 (and I presume Mike Wood is responsible for both of them, thus there should be some sort of consistency between the times) show the WR1 to be the quicker to 60. It is also worth pointing out that the WR1 needs two gearchanges to do 60mph, the P1 only needs one. This gives the P1 a synthetic advantage in a 0-60 sprint, but in the real world the WR1's six speed box should make it the quicker car across country.

That's plain wrong, sorry. As far as the (less powerful) comment goes, I've already said that the WR1's engine is more powerful out of the box than that of any Japanese market STi.

It's furthermore incorrect to claim that the engines are "older generation" or "older tech" than those used in the JDM cars. They are different in certain respects, yes, but to say they're somehow "older"? No. Exactly what the reasons for this are, only Fuji Heavy Industries or International Motors can answer. It may be that there are emissions issues with the current twin scroll setup, it may be that IM simply feel that the "Scooby burble" (which the twinscroll cars don't have) is a valuable selling point.

It's probably worth pointing out that the parts of the car you just described as "older generation" are also used on the US market STi, yet again reinforcing the view that these parts aren't older per sé, they're more different than anything else.

Stop bitching for God's sake. Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning or something?

Fact is that the new shape Impreza's passive safety and refinement benefits over the old car came at a cost - weight. Given that the WR1 is being sold in the context of the rest of the UK Impreza range, it does offer significant advantages over the regular STi PPP, not least that everything comes as a matched package, and that it's also cheaper to insure than an STi PPP.

There is no point whatsoever moaning about what it might have been if Prodrive had done this, that or the other. They did what they were told to do with this car, and will I'm sure have produced a package which its owners will be very pleased with. If you want a raw, barely finished Impreza that stresses outright performance above any other issue and is quicker than a P1 round a track, the choice is straightforward - buy a Spec C. Just quit the pointless moaning, for God's sake...

WR-one

gm....I've had a beer now...its a great car

Brian the Sn@il

Ive ordered and am waiting for delivery of My WR1

Its a Side shift from a Type R version 5

Now i love the Type R, ive driven many scoobs and the Type R really does it for me.

Its the 2 large doors that turn me on

Untill Subaru release another 2 Door Scoob the WR-1 is a stop gap for me.

I know there are import Spec C and the Type 25 etc...
But to Buy a UK Official Uk model with 3 years warranty ...................