Nigeyboy

Hi

After reading recent threads on PPP real performance on the MY03 WRX, I thought it might be useful to get some "real" performance tests posted up.

I have a MY03 PPP with 3k on the clock. Tonight I tested 30-50mph in 3rd: I got 3.97 seconds aver 3 attempts. Prodrive reckon on 3.2 for the WRX PPP, with a standard car getting 4.0! Dry 8degrees, no passengers - that's about as scientific as I'll get.

I will do a few more tests, but it's interesting that my first one gave standard car performance.

Nige

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Other than an apparently blinding 0-60 4.8 sec dash, I haven't seen any other Prodrive timings for the PPP.
Anyone got a breakdown of them?
Has any car mag done its own comparision of Prodrives figures?

Nick

sti-04!!

would be interested in hearing anyones findings as well, looking to get mines done may, june some time on MY04 sti

jas03WRX

Go to Prodrives website and download there PDFs. Has all the figures for you there. EVO (mag)has done a test with a MY03 wagon PPP and says it has improved the mid range power dramatically, and pulls very quickly in each gear. They rate it highly for the price.

Jiggerypokery

Nige, I asked the same question a while back, the timings for the PPP were obtained by driving through the speeds, ie, starting at say 20MPH in 3rd, and flooring it, starting the timer when it reaches 30 and stopping the timer when it reaches 50.

The 0-60 is probably a pretty difficult one to get without being brutal, but I have managed 14.1-14.2 to 100MPH easily, (without being too hard on the clutch or drivetrain!) and stopping the stopwatch when the speedo is reading about 105.

Gutmann pug

Gimme a break guys.........a stop watch hahaha ...... Are you sure its not a Corsa or Saxo your driving?

DBY

GP LOL !!

Jiggerypokery

"Gimme a break guys.........a stop watch hahaha ...... Are you sure its not a Corsa or Saxo your driving?"

Yeah OK Mr TVR / STi man, it's better than nothing! The reason I timed the PPP was because I didn't fell much improvement after it was fitted, but I hadn't floored it much without the PPP so I didn't have much to compare it with. Getting 14.x 0-100 is a good indication that it's been fitted correctly (as opposed to near 16s without PPP). It just put my mind at rest without investing in very expensive timing gear.

Nigeyboy

Jiggery

Thx for your reply

The timings I have done subsequently (and the first set) were starting at the speed indicated on the speedo e.g. 30 then timing to 50. I wondered whether the Prodrive number were driving through the lower speed!

Also I may also look at increasing the speed a little for the next set to compensate for speedo in "accuracy"

Nige

Gutmann pug

Nigeyboy I take it you are joking here? Just how acurate do you think you can be without the proper equipment? You will only disappoint yourself if you start counting seconds or using a stop watch .....

To be serious though if you arent happy with your car, go back to your dealer have them look at it. If still not happy try a standard car again, or a PPP car the same as yours. That will be a better comparison than trying to repeat the Prodrive figures .....

I'm sure that Prodrive probably fried the odd clutch getting their 0-60 and 0-100 times

wakeboardar

last week i timed my 0-60 in my sti10 by asking the missus to count

it was 3.2 seconds fast car init

jas03WRX

Just to add.... The PPP wasn’t designed for a straight piece of road after the traffic lights turn green. The PPP was designed to improve drivability and to improve MIDRANGE power. So shredding your tyres to 60 or a 100 isn’t going to prove to yourself anything.

why not meet up with someone without the PPP at a meet, and compare the difference with a drive. Might put your mind at rest. or... stick it on a set of rollers and see if you have the 261bhp as quoted by Prodrive. If you have then you’ve got nothing to worry about.

Just a suggestion....

Butkus

Considering its expense, when having the PPP fitted shouldn't you be given before and after figures for YOUR car by the garage that fitted it? The other tuning companies do this, and are considerably cheaper. It seems that one of the main selling points of the PPP is the intact warranty that it provides, which is fair enough, but I think that maybe you should be given more evidence that it's done properly in every instance.

This could lead to the argument that every car - Nissan Micra to Porsche 911 - should be provided with its own performance statistics unique to that vehicle, but I think it's different in this case. It's not 'factory' to have the kit fitted at a garage, so I think it should have more guarantees.

Nigeyboy

Well in a forlorn attempt to stop everybody getting carried away here:

This was meant to be a test on "real driving" performance to see if there were some benchmark times that people could check, as there have been some threads about lack of mid range pick up or waves of power delivery say 70-90.

Testing driver feel against like cars or standard cars is another approach and dyno'ing is another, but again there are mixed results from converting at wheels bhp to flywheel bhp.

I hoped that such extra info might just help people who are not happy with the perceived performance of their car before they get it dyno'd take it back to the dealer etc...

Scoobynet just ain't what it used to be .....off in a sulk now
Nigeyboy

Gutmann pug

Cheer up Nigeyboy .... We were only having a chuckle with ya mate.
I think the sure fire way of knowing is take the car out for a hard drive round some A roads ..... if when you come back your smiling then your happy and thats what matters...... if your not, get your dealer to have a look, if all is ok then you need to upgrade it some more....Thats the trouble with these damned cars, you get used to the power so quickly and crave more more MORE.

RR figures vary so much they aint the answer ....

Jiggerypokery

I don't think there is anything wrong with comparing 50-70 and 70-90 times in 5th gear with and without PPP. Prodrive do it in their PPP spec sheet, and there's at least 2 seconds improvement according to them. If you can't press the button on a stop-watch to achieve a 2 second resolution then you shouldn't be driving. The error in the readings with and without PPP should be similar if the same technique is used, so some improvement in performance can be measured.


Not everyone has got around to putting their car on the rollers yet, so some cheapo methods of timing measurement will be used until then.

"I'm sure that Prodrive probably fried the odd clutch getting their 0-60 and 0-100 times"

I'm sure they did too, which is why it's better to measure in-gear times as a comparison.

One thing I was told by the garage at the 1k service is that the car will loosen up as the mileage increases, and this seems to be the case, 20k miles later and I'm (still) smiling.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

"I'm sure that Prodrive probably fried the odd clutch getting their 0-60 and 0-100 times"

You can also bet that they only had a few litres of petrol in the tank, had no screen wash, used slicks and had a test driver so thin that he gets blown away in strong winds

My MY04 wagon PPP now has 2500 miles on the clock so I'll roll out Delta Dash shortly and do some timings/ rolling road sessions to see what it comes with.
The only arguement I believe can be raised is the accuracy of the vehicle speed sensor

Nick

MikeWood

Nick

What actually happened was that I filled the car with petrol, set up the Micro Sat and did the test. We even quote the slowest times from the three goes I had at getting the launch right.....

The only frying that went on was the bacon in the sandwich I had just eaten before doing the testing.

Mike

PS Don't rely on the car's speed sensor as it lags engine speed if you look at a log file. Delta dyno uses engine speed for this reason.

Gutmann pug

Mike,

Does the dealer supply a free bacon sarny when you have PPP fitted?

Just out of interest Mike, how is the testing carried out. Also do you have to have the tests written up as a test report for viewing by standard councils etc? Just wondered as the industry I work in we adhere to BS test proceedures and provide them with test results on mutilple product before we can actually make any claims via advertising. I have no idea how the motor industry works but is this the sort of thing you have to do as an aftermarket distributor?

MikeWood

There isn't a recognised standard for doing the tests as such, just a general principle that it's done on a full tank as that's easier to get the same every time and that you have 2 people in the car as someone has to work the datalogger normally.

What we don't do is repeat the test until we get the absolute best times that the car can do as all you generally end up with is a tired car. I did 3 runs on the WRX and the figures were within 0.1sec to 60 so I left it at that.

Mike

Gutmann pug

Thanks for the answer

P1_BEN

I always had this idea in my head that they'd be there trying again and again to get the fastest time with the car as light as possible and in the optimum conditions.

So mike.... any hints on what the WR1 perfomance figures are???

Neil Smalley

P1

I know, but then i'd have to shoot you.

The best things come to those who wait, and the WR1 is worth waiting for.
When I saw them I went to the EVO knowledge page and saw what cars were faster than it. The answer is a lot fewer than a PPP STI

P1_BEN

he he he.... Don't say things like that I get all excited and impatient...!!! hmmm time for a call to the dealer for an update on delivery of... Er don't know sir... Still!!

Nigeyboy

Dear Mr Wood (Mike)

Thanks for adding a Prodrive input to this thread.

Can I possibly ask a few additional questions:

1) Did you drive through the lower speed rating in the test rather than start at the bottom for test purposes.

2) If people find that the car is well below expectations and they want to get it checked, what should they do? I have spoken to the dealer and they "Can't" check out the performance - you could always email me your thoughts on this one

3) Do you constantly evolve the software with ECUTek to eliminate "gremlins"
and if so should patched be available to buyers rather like software upgrades?

Nigeyboy
(Now feeling less grumpy)

Mark in Ireland

What times does anyone have for 50-70mph in 5th and 50-70mph in 4th?
My car is timed at 5.0 secs and 4.0 secs, how do these compare?

ARM-Scooby

in addition to the above questions is there a place along the rev. range that you always change at?

Just wondering if that would make a big difference and where i should be looking to change