FAO Mike Wood, re WR1 power output.
12 February 2004, 02:37 PM
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FAO Mike Wood, re WR1 power output.
Hello Mike,
I visited my local dealer today with regard to information on the forthcoming WR1.He said that you have stated that the car will definately be 330 bhp.From what i have been lead to believe from recent posts and other discussions,the car will have around 315 bhp.Is there any way you can clarify this,and let us know the genuine power and torque figures?.This is the second time that dealers have told me that the power output will be around 330 bhp,so i would be grateful for your help in putting this question to bed.Thanks.Regards, SIMON.
I visited my local dealer today with regard to information on the forthcoming WR1.He said that you have stated that the car will definately be 330 bhp.From what i have been lead to believe from recent posts and other discussions,the car will have around 315 bhp.Is there any way you can clarify this,and let us know the genuine power and torque figures?.This is the second time that dealers have told me that the power output will be around 330 bhp,so i would be grateful for your help in putting this question to bed.Thanks.Regards, SIMON.
12 February 2004, 03:32 PM
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Simon
We have never stated that the power output will be 330bhp, either officially or otherwise. WR1 is quoted at 320ps but we have not quoted a torque figure as yet.
Martin
Having done a lot of work over the last 2 years on this, if your car is now producing the figures claimed (333bhp/333lbft if I remember correctly) without other mods, the turbo will be running well outside it's efficiency envelope. Be prepared to be spending more money on it at some stage.....
Mike
We have never stated that the power output will be 330bhp, either officially or otherwise. WR1 is quoted at 320ps but we have not quoted a torque figure as yet.
Martin
Having done a lot of work over the last 2 years on this, if your car is now producing the figures claimed (333bhp/333lbft if I remember correctly) without other mods, the turbo will be running well outside it's efficiency envelope. Be prepared to be spending more money on it at some stage.....
Mike
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12 February 2004, 04:38 PM
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Now im confused.
Just been on the site of the dealer where I bought my car from (Ian you will know where this is i expect if you remember, without mentioning names)
They state jap import GL spec STi8 ....322BHP (autocar figures). Now i know for a fact this dealer doesnt believe in Re-maps. So whats that all about?
Quote from site.
Japanese WRX STI GL Saloon
Max Power 322bhp & 394nm max torque (Autocar Figures)
What Does The Japanese STI have the the UK models don't?
New Twin Scroll Turbo Big Bearing, Equal Length Manifolds, Nitrided Crankshaft, Alloy Conrods & Pistons, D.C.C.D (Drivers Centre Differential System), HID (High Intensity Discharge), STI Quick Steering Rack, STI Front Strut Bar, Bridgestone bespoke RE070-Cup Tyres, 8000rpm Red Line, Rear wash wipe & Smoked Rear Door Glass.
Just been on the site of the dealer where I bought my car from (Ian you will know where this is i expect if you remember, without mentioning names)
They state jap import GL spec STi8 ....322BHP (autocar figures). Now i know for a fact this dealer doesnt believe in Re-maps. So whats that all about?
Quote from site.
Japanese WRX STI GL Saloon
Max Power 322bhp & 394nm max torque (Autocar Figures)
What Does The Japanese STI have the the UK models don't?
New Twin Scroll Turbo Big Bearing, Equal Length Manifolds, Nitrided Crankshaft, Alloy Conrods & Pistons, D.C.C.D (Drivers Centre Differential System), HID (High Intensity Discharge), STI Quick Steering Rack, STI Front Strut Bar, Bridgestone bespoke RE070-Cup Tyres, 8000rpm Red Line, Rear wash wipe & Smoked Rear Door Glass.
Last edited by TVR Gary; 12 February 2004 at 04:39 PM.
12 February 2004, 05:26 PM
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Jap import STi8 (2002 model year) doesn't have twin-scroll turbo Gary, and even the 2003MY STi9 (which does) is in the 290bhp region out of the box.
Either way, you can't directly compare the outputs of the Jap cars with the WR1 and others that go through the UK dealer chain. The Jap cars are tuned and warranted with a 112mph maximum speed limiter on the car, so there's likely to be less consideration given to running at high speeds/engine loads in the high gears, and the long-term consequences thereof.
Certainly looks as though the site you've mentioned has taken the figures produced by Iain's car as "standard".
Either way, you can't directly compare the outputs of the Jap cars with the WR1 and others that go through the UK dealer chain. The Jap cars are tuned and warranted with a 112mph maximum speed limiter on the car, so there's likely to be less consideration given to running at high speeds/engine loads in the high gears, and the long-term consequences thereof.
Certainly looks as though the site you've mentioned has taken the figures produced by Iain's car as "standard".
Last edited by greasemonkey; 12 February 2004 at 05:27 PM.
12 February 2004, 05:56 PM
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Exactly as Greasemonkey says. Unless you compare similar cars on the same rolling road its kind of pointless anyway.
Come and have a go in my new toy Gary
Iain
Come and have a go in my new toy Gary
Iain
12 February 2004, 07:04 PM
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Mike,
Thanks for the reply.I didnt think that 330 bhp had been officially mentioned.Have you run a WR1 against the likes of the Evo 8 FQ300,as you compared the P1 against the Evo 6?.Would you have a 0-100 mph figure?,i know that this figure is a little irrelevant in real terms,but it does give some indication of just how quick the car is in a straight line.Again,thanks for your time to reply.Regards, SIMON.
Thanks for the reply.I didnt think that 330 bhp had been officially mentioned.Have you run a WR1 against the likes of the Evo 8 FQ300,as you compared the P1 against the Evo 6?.Would you have a 0-100 mph figure?,i know that this figure is a little irrelevant in real terms,but it does give some indication of just how quick the car is in a straight line.Again,thanks for your time to reply.Regards, SIMON.
12 February 2004, 07:17 PM
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Agreed (with Iain), all this bhp/ps lb/ft and Nm talk is a load of b*ll*cks anyway, there are far too many people obsessed with it round these parts.
At end of day, no rolling road can provide truly accurate indications of engine output, although it can be said that including the transmission and road wheels in the test makes RR's more relevant to real-road performance.
The only way to measure engine power accurately is on an engine dyno, and even then I daresay the same engine would produce a slightly different set of figures on Prodrive's than it would, for example, on STi's in Japan.
Must admit I'd be interested to see what would happen if, for sake of example, a Triple3 customer put his car on a rolling road somewhere and the results came up as 325bhp and 328lb/ft torque. Would he go back and ask for his extra horses and pounds, or have TSL actually been conservative enough with these published figures that they'll be matched or exceeded no matter when or where a customer's car might get put to the test?
With production engines, published power figures will always be nominal and will vary in reality due to a number of factors. What's ultimately important is how the car drives, and it's getting a little tiresome to see all this talk of the WR1's power output/torque levels (along with the associated rubbish about PPP output levels possibly being raised) before anyone's even driven the thing...
Si, trying hard to avoid a rolleyes here, would your purchasing decision on one of these cars genuinely swing on whether or not (on paper at least) it'll beat an FQ300 or FQ330 in a straight line race to a ton?
Whatever figures are quoted in this regard will likely be done with the car being driven in a, shall we say, less sympathetic manner than any normal owner, making the results slightly less than totally relevant. The fact that the Lancer has a five speed gearbox while the Impreza is a 6 will also have an effect on straight line times while not giving a fair impression of the car's driveability on real roads.
I daresay the magazines will be busting to do an Evo vs WR1 test, if you're desperate to see a head to head between the two cars, it's probably better to wait for something like that.
At end of day, no rolling road can provide truly accurate indications of engine output, although it can be said that including the transmission and road wheels in the test makes RR's more relevant to real-road performance.
The only way to measure engine power accurately is on an engine dyno, and even then I daresay the same engine would produce a slightly different set of figures on Prodrive's than it would, for example, on STi's in Japan.
Must admit I'd be interested to see what would happen if, for sake of example, a Triple3 customer put his car on a rolling road somewhere and the results came up as 325bhp and 328lb/ft torque. Would he go back and ask for his extra horses and pounds, or have TSL actually been conservative enough with these published figures that they'll be matched or exceeded no matter when or where a customer's car might get put to the test?
With production engines, published power figures will always be nominal and will vary in reality due to a number of factors. What's ultimately important is how the car drives, and it's getting a little tiresome to see all this talk of the WR1's power output/torque levels (along with the associated rubbish about PPP output levels possibly being raised) before anyone's even driven the thing...
Si, trying hard to avoid a rolleyes here, would your purchasing decision on one of these cars genuinely swing on whether or not (on paper at least) it'll beat an FQ300 or FQ330 in a straight line race to a ton?
Whatever figures are quoted in this regard will likely be done with the car being driven in a, shall we say, less sympathetic manner than any normal owner, making the results slightly less than totally relevant. The fact that the Lancer has a five speed gearbox while the Impreza is a 6 will also have an effect on straight line times while not giving a fair impression of the car's driveability on real roads.
I daresay the magazines will be busting to do an Evo vs WR1 test, if you're desperate to see a head to head between the two cars, it's probably better to wait for something like that.
Last edited by greasemonkey; 12 February 2004 at 07:27 PM.
12 February 2004, 08:02 PM
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TVR Gary, Not sure about alloy con rods !! Nice idea, but a bit fragile l'd have thought.
I have an new STi 9 bottom end in stock from Japan and the rods are seemingly the same as the STi7 / 8 from first view. Better than 'classic' shape car ones, stronger at the big end to shaft radius and use bolts to join rather than studs and nuts.
If I'm wrong please correct me someone and l'll look into it.
David API Engines
I have an new STi 9 bottom end in stock from Japan and the rods are seemingly the same as the STi7 / 8 from first view. Better than 'classic' shape car ones, stronger at the big end to shaft radius and use bolts to join rather than studs and nuts.
If I'm wrong please correct me someone and l'll look into it.
David API Engines
12 February 2004, 09:20 PM
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TVR Gary here,,,
Can someone tell me whats different between the STi 8 Jap GL model with twin scroll turbo and the WR1? Engine wise I mean not bodywork
Cheers for the previous notes after my comment. The clip I posted was taken from my dealers web site and he is quoting 320BHP from a Jap import model without re-map. If this is not the case he should change his site IMHO.
API david, the alloy con-rod bit was taken direct from the dealer site, not my idea
As for the comment about rolling roads etc I agree, its more about drivability than making the extra 1BHP
Gary
Can someone tell me whats different between the STi 8 Jap GL model with twin scroll turbo and the WR1? Engine wise I mean not bodywork
Cheers for the previous notes after my comment. The clip I posted was taken from my dealers web site and he is quoting 320BHP from a Jap import model without re-map. If this is not the case he should change his site IMHO.
API david, the alloy con-rod bit was taken direct from the dealer site, not my idea
As for the comment about rolling roads etc I agree, its more about drivability than making the extra 1BHP
Gary
Last edited by Gutmann pug; 12 February 2004 at 09:23 PM.
12 February 2004, 09:31 PM
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Please quit this "STi8" business Gary, as it's confusing the issue. If you're going to use these numbers, the "STi8" is a 2002 model year car, and none of the 2002MY cars has a twin scroll turbo. The twin scroll turbo and equal length manifold configuration was first introduced on the facelifted 2003 model year Japanese STi (aka STI9).Mike W is far better placed to comment here, and will no doubt correct any inaccuracies in what follows, but my understanding is that the physical specification of the WR1's engine is as per the other MY04 STi Type UK's, which means unequal length exhaust manifolds and the single-scroll VF35 turbo.
This is the same specification turbo that was used on the MY03 and (most of the) MY02 STi Type UK's, as well as the MY01 and MY02 Japanese market cars.
I don't know whether the MY04 UK cars carry over the nitrided crank and other engine internals seen for the first time on some of the Japanese STi's. My belief is that they don't, although I very much stand to be corrected on this.
Last edited by greasemonkey; 12 February 2004 at 09:38 PM.
12 February 2004, 09:51 PM
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Well pardon me for using the incorrect terminology grease monkey. Now I know I shouldnt call it an STi8 I wont anymore.
I was mearly trying to understand why a dealer was quoting 322BHP for a jap import GL MY03 when you professionals say 290BHP without a re-map.
Oh and I used to like it on here, but its wearing thin now
Thanks for the offer Ian, the next time i'm in the area I will most certainly come see you mate.
I was mearly trying to understand why a dealer was quoting 322BHP for a jap import GL MY03 when you professionals say 290BHP without a re-map.
Oh and I used to like it on here, but its wearing thin now
Thanks for the offer Ian, the next time i'm in the area I will most certainly come see you mate.
Last edited by Gutmann pug; 12 February 2004 at 09:52 PM.
12 February 2004, 10:09 PM
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No intention to give you the hump Gary.
Whether you knew you were doing it or not, you asked a technical question that contained inaccurate terminology. It was impossible to answer your question correctly without pointing the underlying inaccuracy out.
Whether you knew you were doing it or not, you asked a technical question that contained inaccurate terminology. It was impossible to answer your question correctly without pointing the underlying inaccuracy out.
13 February 2004, 07:58 AM
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someone mentioned 5000mile service intervals on the wr1,is it not very similar to a sti9 ppp? if so how come they go 10000 miles between services.(mine wont though).
mike.
mike.
13 February 2004, 09:36 AM
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Dark,
I believe they had both the vf34 and the vf35 turbos, the only way to tell though is to look at the turbo housing as it should state what turbo it is.
Mike, as i now own a JDM car (one of those Spec C things) and to be honest, its quick enought for me
i take it when you mean your going outside of the turbo's effeciency, its due to the type of turbo and other parts of the exhaust system or just the turbo itself? (i think mine is a VF37 rollerbearing turbo rather than a vf35/vf36 sleeved bearing) and do you also know if Subaru UK are going to eventually go down the twin scroll road? (its very good )
Greasemonkey, your right in saying that torque is what counts, i think too many people put emphasis on outright bhp, this doesnt get you what your after out of a turbocharged car though and owning a quick car with no guts..... whats the point?
Tony
I believe they had both the vf34 and the vf35 turbos, the only way to tell though is to look at the turbo housing as it should state what turbo it is.
Mike, as i now own a JDM car (one of those Spec C things) and to be honest, its quick enought for me
i take it when you mean your going outside of the turbo's effeciency, its due to the type of turbo and other parts of the exhaust system or just the turbo itself? (i think mine is a VF37 rollerbearing turbo rather than a vf35/vf36 sleeved bearing) and do you also know if Subaru UK are going to eventually go down the twin scroll road? (its very good )Greasemonkey, your right in saying that torque is what counts, i think too many people put emphasis on outright bhp, this doesnt get you what your after out of a turbocharged car though and owning a quick car with no guts..... whats the point?
Tony