DJ140

The interim 5000 mile "Power Service", is I assume to maintain reliability with the increase in power over STi8/9 PPP.

Dan

mutant_matt

Dark,

Tonyburns is right - some of the MY02 STi Type UKs had VF34s and some VF35s. Nobody seems to know why but it is a fact.

Matt (VF35 )

MrShades

STi8/STi9 - Aaaaaaaaarrrrrgggggghhhhhh - This makes me SOOOO angry!

Just jumping on Gary's case here - IMHO everyone, probably with the exception of you, knew what he meant by "STi8" though greasemonkey, and as far as I can see you were just being pedantic.

IIRC I've seen you do this quite a bit on "STi8" posts recently, and it does tend to spoil the flow.... Generally, everyone knows that the JDM STi8 is REALLY an STi9, but the 'facelifted' MY03-> has become generically known as the STi8 - by MOST people on here....

Rant over.

Shades

I certainly understood exactly what was being said, and didn't see any REAL problem with 'technical inaccuracies'...

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I think we have been here before and Mike put it correctly, agreeing with Greasemonkey
As stated, the last STi numbering was with the STi6, this was an MY00 classic shaped car, the numbering then changed to MY dates rather than STi numbering, but if you use the numbering then the JDM cars are ahead of the Euro STi's as the UK/Europe didnt get their first official new shape STi until 2002, this would make it an STi7 (this is why its confusing because there was no MY01 STi and thus the reason they use MY rather than numbers) but the JDM cars still came out in 2001/2/3/4 making them the STi7/8/9/10, there is no uk STi9, nor 8 or even a 7, its just an MY STi type UK.
If you also really wanted to go into it deeper, there are then the differences between the STi9 (JDM) over the STi8 (MY03/04) as the Euro car doesnt have the same engine internals, nor the twin scoll turbo (just to add to an already complex discussion )

Tony(JDM STi9 Spec C owner )

simakinen

Hi Greasemonkey,
My interest in the WR1s performance,stems from the point of,should i trade outright performance,which in my case is the Evo FQ 300,for outright usability,being the Subaru.I think i would genuinely use the Subaru more in comparison to the Evo,but i am not willing to give up the Evos performance and handling for something less.I always enjoyed driving my P1 in everyday use,so maybe its time for a return.I am trying to do my homework here,and i agree with your comments about paper figures,but i am trying to ascertain if it is worth changing.I suppose only a back to back comparison will be the only way of answering my questions,but there is no harm in asking questions that the dealers dont seem to know the answers too yet, but i suppose why should they know, the car is not even up and running , i guess i was looking for inside information.I thought Mike might be able to shead some light.I also wish that Subaru would start using proper Recaro seats,but thats another story. Oh yes, the Evo is a 6 speed box as well.Cheers,Regards, SIMON.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Simon,
I saw the WR1 at the NEC, it possably is a touch heavier than the standard STi but it does have better handling as you now have the A-DCCD (including manual control).
I think that the extra performance will be there to offset the slight weight gain (possably not that much of a weight gain) but it will come with the 18 inch alloys, possably the ProDrive suspension and revised torque delivery (TBC by Subaru UK and ProDrive). I would say that as an everyday car, you wont be missing out on handling over the evo, neither will you be missing out on the performance, what you will get though is a well thought out package that will suit people for day to day use and still have fun

Tony

greasemonkey

No worries Si, it is a difficult situation the one you're in, but I think the only way you'll get an answer that's free of potential bias is to get in the driver's seat of one yourself. Ultimately it's the only way to evaluate the handling and real world "driveability", but then again, if you wait long enough to do that, will you get your name down before they sell out?

Thanks too for the correction on the Lancer's gearbox, when did they move over to a six speed, with the Evo 7?

No, not everyone at all. Many people on Scoobynet think they know what an "STi8" is, but if you asked four different people, you'd probably get four completely different answers, which makes the description useless in any technical conversation.

If somebody asks something as simple as "How fast is an STi8?", you've immediately got to ask them what model year and market of the car they're talking about before you can give them an accurate answer!

No, I'm being accurate, and the more often I (or others) mention it, the more people will either stop doing it and start referring to the cars by the model year and market (which is by far the clearest method), or at least use the numbers "properly".

So why don't they say so? Who is "everyone"? These descriptions are largely just a Scoobynet phenomenon, and the reason most people use them is nothing more scientific than because they saw someone else doing it. That doesn't make it correct.

Just because that's happened doesn't make it correct. This generic "STi8" description has become used by various people to refer to MY02, MY03 and MY04 cars, of both Japanese market and non-Japanese specification. It is clearly unrealistic and technically erroneous to lump considerably different cars in under the same generic description.

In my view, it's about time this particular lemmingism got put to bed (which has started to happen since I've been droning on about it), and funnily enough, whenever I say so, there're always a few people who agree with me.

This being a forum and all, we're free to disagree on this point.

MikeWood

Simon

The whole idea of the car is to provide exactly the brief you've set, strong performance with the relative civility that you would expect. We think we've achieved it.. Tony has just about hit the nail on the head.


Craig
Turbo efficiency can be measured in various ways but without giving too much away, if the turbo is too small to flow the air you need, more boost just means it's blowing disproportionally hotter air. At the other end of the spectrum, too much boost at lower rpm can see the airflow reversing itself in the intake giving very strange pulsation effects. That's why you can sometimes hear a fluttering noise with non std downpipes, part of the reason why the ECU would need to be recalibrated to suit such modifications.

Mike

MrShades

Greasemonkey - your response to my 'rant' is considered, accurate and probably closer to the mark than your original post on the subject, or my subsequent rant in response.

Technically everything you say (in your post above anyway) is true - and I probably stand corrected on a few (minor ) points of semantics.

However - I'm willing to stand on the "I understood what he meant, and generally most people did" and I'd even go as far as saying that I'd guess you were probably 90% certain yourself...

Thanks for your complete thoughts of the subject.

Shades (STi8 MY03 owner)

TVR Gary

ah well as you feel so strongly about it grease monkey (lemmingism indeed)

(about time it got put to bed) you hero you...haha

I own a MY03 March, not bug eye, STi8, euro import, blue thing with gold bits at each corner, ironing board on the back, bat catcher on the front, motorised propelling unit.

Only added the STi8 bit coz i know it would annoy you .......

Might even post a picture next time incase people still dont understand .....

laffing my **** off now

right this is my last comment on this thread coz someone was asking a serious question and we have watered it down with all this.....

see ya

S.B.

FAO Mike Wood.....Please comment on the STi8 STi9 numbering system is it right or wrong

greasemonkey

Granted Shades, I could probably have guessed what he was talking about, but I don't like guesswork in these circumstances, and Gary did raise a technical point about the detail spec of the engines where model year and market issues are a significant factor.

Sure, it's minor detail at times, but my opinion has always been that a very simple way of avoiding all this is simply to use the model year and market, just like people were doing with the "MY99 UK Turbos" (or whatever) for years. This is even more of an issue now the MY04 cars are out (which have been variously referred to as ST8's, 9's or 10's in different SN posts!).

If I say I've got an MY03 STi Type UK, everybody, from a common or garden SN user to the guy behind the parts counter at my local garage, knows what car I'm talking about. If I say I've got an "STi8", that instant clarity completely disappears and we're back to a game of multiple choice...

BTW, it takes a lot more than anything like this to annoy me Gary, this is nothing more than a point of fact.

MikeWood

S.B.

Think you'll find that it was me that started all this discussion a long time ago....

GM is spot on. STi number above 6 have never been used, but if you were to follow this convention then an 04MY would be an STi10. Unless you are American when an 04MY was the same as our 03MY so an STi10 would be an 05MY.......

Oh no, I've even confused myself now!

Mike

greasemonkey

simakinen

Thanks for the replys chaps ,and taking the time to discuss this subject.Greasemonkey,it is the Evo 8 that has had the 6 speed box fitted as standard.Regards, SIMON.

Dark

iTrader: (1)

Greasemonkey, Tony

Going back to the question of the vf34 or vf35 fitted to the MY02 STI UK. Is there much difference and do you need to take this into account if modifying the car? I'm guessing that the PPP is the same, whatever turbo is fitted.

Mark

emilybronte

Greasemonkey - The lancer Evo V111 has a 6 speed box

greasemonkey

Thanks EB (and Si further up). Mark, I'm not an expert on these two units by any stretch of the imagination, so you'd get a much better answer from the likes of Andy F, Bob Rawle, Dr Banks or maybe Harvey on the differences.

My general understanding is that while they have the same front end, the VF34 has a ball bearing cartridge (35 is sleeve), while the 35 has a slightly smaller turbine, giving it slightly quicker spool, but at the expense of a little top-end flow rate.

I'm not sure what percentage of the MY02 STi Type UK's have each turbo, and have no idea to what (if any extent) the PPP for the MY02 cars takes account of the differences. If you were getting something like a TeK3 though, I'd imagine the end result would vary fractionally.

john banks

As GM says, but the difference is the turbine housing on the 34 is a P18, on the 35 it is a P15, turbine wheels are the same, so the difference is the nozzle area that discharges onto the turbine wheel.

This sizes the turbo slightly differently, small gain in spool up and small loss of top end on the 35. The smaller nozzle results in higher gas velocity to spool the turbo up early, but causes high exhaust back pressure at higher flows. This causes high temperatures, pollution of fresh charge with end gases, pumping losses and the need for more fuel and/or retarded timing to ward off detonation. This can result in less power and/or stressed engine/turbo at higher boost as Mike mentioned.

Both tend to have a little compressor surge if you bring them in too hard at low RPM as Mike Wood also mentioned.

Chris L

I didn't realise about the 5000 mile interim service. I'm assuming that this is basically an oil change? I've been considering a WR-1, but on that basis I would be servicing the car 4 or 5 times a year and with no local dealer (that I like), this could be a real issue. Perhaps I might go for an STI +PPP instead.

Chris

greasemonkey

Would presume that it's basically just an oil/filter change and a quick check on a Select Monitor, yes.

Might be worth waiting to see what happens with the PPP before you jump. If the MY04 PPP ends up adopting the same output levels as the WR1 as many have speculated, it may well adopt the same service intervals, leaving you in the same situation.

Dazza's-STi

Q for Geasemonkey,,,?

GM as you appear to be very very knowledagble in the engine arena, I'd like to ask a question based on what mike said about the performance envelope of the STiMY03...
Please escuse me for hijacking thread slightly...

For more power the turbo was reaching its operational limits, around the 320 bhp mark.
Now I'm thinking of replacing the orininal blower and using something than can run say 340bhp well within limits... I suspect the internals and the rest are upto the job...! so it would simply be a turbo change, remap and possibly a larger IC. Is the MY03 sti turbo going to be the VF35?

And most of all... do you think this is a genuinly sencible I don't want to go above 350 bhp so around that figure, and the car gets a good service every 5k... Unlike the serial modders My goal is simply to have a solid 350 bhp thats not pushing too many limts....
What do you think... I'm happy with the MY03 and don't see anything apart from a FQ330 being a big enough leap to make me want to part with me MY03... and I think the scoob needs around 340bhp to compare with a FQ300...

Ta

Dazza

PS you rmore than welcome to ask me IT related quiestions as long as you like!

john banks

I would suggest an AndyF (andyf9000@hotmail.com) TD05H/06-20G hybrid turbo for an easy 340 BHP on a TMIC on any rolling road. It will run cool at this level and will be very engine friendly whilst retaining excellent spool up. Works even better with STi rev limits and shorter gearing.

A smaller turbo may do the job with a FMIC, careful attention to the breathing, exhaust manifold, 3" exhaust, octane booster etc.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

John,
Do you know any of the specs for the VF37 roller bearing turbo that the MY03 STi Spec C has?

Cheers!
Tony

john banks

No, there is scarce public information. Bob's results at Prosport will be interesting.

Bob Rawle

VF37 is the sleeve bearing turbo, VF36 is the roller bearing titanium type.

I have both, VF37 on the car and VF36 waiting to go on after the Prosport day.

cheers

bob

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

So the one on my Spec C is the VF36? (my03)

Tony

johnfelstead

you should be able to read the number on the turbo Tony. I'll take a look monday if you like.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Cheers John

Tony

greasemonkey

Felstos is like an automotive pervert, he'll take any excuse to look under someone else's bonnet...