jeremy

As it takes awhile for Evo to make it over to LA, can anyone comment on there Evo 6 v P1 confrontation?
Thanks.

DominicA

Just like the RB5 the P1 was the better car...

Neil Smalley

As above but with a tongue in cheek tone to it. Almost saying we're telling you what we think but we know that you'll disagree but we don't care...

RoShamBo

iTrader: (1)

Prodrive/Subaru have EVO Mag in their back pockets.
EVO says they dont - & made a BIG point of saying they are independant & objective.

Whats the saying "I think they protest TOO much"



Ro

YAGIZ AVCI

all imprezas are much better than evo6.p1 is the newest so it is also much better than evo6.i drove evo6.it is a good car but not as much as impreza.
important:i read in steve breen's page that the evo6 in autocar which is compared head to head with p1 is not 280hp.ralliart increased the turbo boost so p1 couldn't match it.it was not a standard evo.you must understand this. evo can't raech 60mph in 4.4 seconds and 100mph in 11.1 seconds.its normal results are :0-60=4.9 0-100=13.2
ÝMPREZAS ARE THE EVO BEATERS

PAUL GEE

Yagiz,
even if Ralliart have tweaked the boost on Ralliart cars the comparison stands. Autocar show a balanced road test because that’s the spec of all cars they sell as official 'U.K.' Evo's. The P1 is also an official 'U.K.' spec Impreza sold by Subaru U.K.and Prodrive.
Compare like with like. Otherwise compare Sti 5/6 with grey Evo 6.
You're missing the point.

YAGIZ AVCI

HÝ i want to say that all the imprezas are evo eaters.P-1 is the newest impreza so it is absolutely much better than evo.
evo is nothing.. )

GCollier

The article in Evo is not really a proper comparative road test - it's just re-iterating their previously stated opinion. They prefer the P1 to the Evo, basically because they think they can get more out of the car more of the time.

This is at odds to the opinion of the Autocar road test team, who came down heavily in favour of the Evo 6 when compared head to head.

What can we conclude? Probably that they are both great cars, that no magazine should be regarded as the gospel truth, and that there is a large degree of subjectivity when it comes to deciding which car is "better".

Yagiz >>> Your above statements are utter b********. I think I remember seeing in a previous post that you have driven a number of imprezas and lancer evo's? I can only assume that either you were lying, or you really have no clue what you are talking about.

Simon Ryan

I agree GCollier!

It also think it depends on their relationship?? with the manufacturers. I know that Ed and Dep Ed of EVO are great mates with certain people at Prodrive. Funny that!

It also probably explains how they can say that RB5 is far superior to Sti V, and therefore P1 should be greatly superior to Sti V??? I was under the impression that they are, give or take a couple of gizmos the same car. I am wrong in my assumptions?

GCollier

Yagiz,

I'm sure that a QUALIFIED subjective opinion (ie. In MY opinion the P1 is better than the Evo 6 BECAUSE <fill in as appropriate>) would be of more interest to more readers of this BBS than blind sounding dogmatic statements such as "all imprezas are much better than Evo 6" (are you including the GL in that?) or "P1 is newest, so....".

With regard to the performance figures, I think Paul Gee is correct. Certainly the Ralliart Evo 6 _feels_ much more than 2 secs quicker to 100 than a MY99 impreza, which is what your figures suggest.

And no, I'm not an Evo 6 owner(unfortunately, thanks to Ralliart seemingly being unable to fulfill my order ), and I'm scoobyless at the moment too , so have no reason to be biased towards any particular marque. Once my house move has been sorted in the next few months though, I'll be rectifying that situation. That'll involve taking further Evo 6 test drives, and comparing with the P1 if any are on the second hand market by then, and MAKING UP MY OWN MIND.

So Yagiz, to say again, I would be very happy to hear your detailed comments on the cars, to add to my knowledge, and perhaps areas to explore in test drives, so that I (and people like me) can make a better informed decision when the time comes to buy.

Gary.



[This message has been edited by GCollier (edited 08-06-2000).]

Jonathan

Its also known that certain people at Autocar are in Ralliart pocket. Thats why I would take anything written by them with a pinch of salt. The cars they test are most certianly tweaked.

Funny that Top Gear with a Grey Import EVO couldnt match the pace of the P1.

EVO mags write up is pretty fair. For a harder edged car go for the EVO otherwise the P1. The EVO is not set up for the UK, the P1 is. Look at the people already changing suspension for such a perfect car.

Will people agree with Clarkson tonight.

Jonathan

GCollier

Jonathan,

As Paul Gee pointed out, he thought that all Ralliart cars were tweaked to allow greater boost. This would explain the performance figures achieved by Autocar, and the fact that a "grey" Evo 6 couldn't match a P1. The Ralliart Evo 6 I drove only had 900 miles on the clock, so was still tight. However part of the test drive involved the long straight incline where the A246 joins the A24 near Leatherhead, and I remember commenting to the salesman at the time that the Evo accelerated faster UP the hill than my MY99 scoob did down it. So, I can very well believe the 11.2s 0-100mph quoted by autocar.

If can also well believe that magazines may have less than holy relationships with car manufacturers, but I also remember Autocar raving about the P1 prototype they test drove, and I remember lots of quotes being crowed about on this BBS at the time, and rather less of the "Autocar, pinch of salt line".

I suppose if we were all more grown up, we would treat all magazine road-tests with a pinch of salt, but I suppose it is human nature to look for acceptance from others of the choices we have made, and verification by way of magazine articles that what we have is the "best".

Gary.

Crafty

Simon
Working on your logic of the evo guys being mates with Prodrive therefore this is whythey always rate the Impreza above its rivals, do you not think it strange the guys at Autocar always seem to be wearing Ralliart clothing when pictured on a road test, that they have recentley taken delivery of an Evo VI long termer and they rate the Evo VI over it's Subaru equivalents?
Surely by the very nature of their jobs magazine road testers become friendly with press offices, engineers, testers etc and the reason we all spend a frightening amount on motoring mags each month is because we value the tester's impartial opinion on the cars they drive.
Ro
Are you the idiot your name suggests you are? If you don't like evo, don't buy it. But please don't come on here and moan about it for being in IM's pocket when clearly it is as independant as its competition.
Surely a magazine dedicated to fullfilling the requirements of the driving enthusiast is bound to feature a car like the Impreza (which I think we are all agreed is a true enthusiasts car) regularly, as well as Porsches, Elises, Caterham's etc. What else do you want evo to write about - MPV's and sub £10K diesel hatchbacks?

Crafty

Simon
Working on your logic of the evo guys being mates with Prodrive therefore this is whythey always rate the Impreza above its rivals, do you not think it strange the guys at Autocar always seem to be wearing Ralliart clothing when pictured on a road test, that they have recentley taken delivery of an Evo VI long termer and they rate the Evo VI over it's Subaru equivalents?
Surely by the very nature of their jobs magazine road testers become friendly with press offices, engineers, testers etc and the reason we all spend a frightening amount on motoring mags each month is because we value the tester's impartial opinion on the cars they drive.
Ro
Are you the idiot your name suggests you are? If you don't like evo, don't buy it. But please don't come on here and moan about it for being in IM's pocket when clearly it is as independant as its competition.
Surely a magazine dedicated to fullfilling the requirements of the driving enthusiast is bound to feature a car like the Impreza (which I think we are all agreed is a true enthusiasts car) regularly, as well as Porsches, Elises, Caterham's etc. What else do you want evo to write about - MPV's and sub £10K diesel hatchbacks?

Scott J Davies

Gents

We are all individuals, we all drive differently, we all wear different clothes and yes we all have our favourites.

Its down to individual choice, they are both amazing vechicles, personally I doubt there would be much in it. Put us reasonably good drivers behind the wheel of either and let us chuck the car round a track and there probable wouldn't be much in it. Some would be quicker in the Evo some in the P1, dependent on driving likes and style. Personally I am a Sccoby fan and would Pick the P1 as it looks better than the Evo and I like the influence of messers McCray and Burns. Simply drive them both then choose.

DavidRB

"Better" is subjective, it can't be measured like 0-60 times and top speeds. Until you define "better" objectively, it's a meaningless argument. Test drives only show personal preference, one car "feels" better than the other.

If a review thinks a P1 is a better road car than an Evo Extreme, then it's a valid point. They're road cars and that's what they're sold as.

As for one being the better performance car, better performance where? Both these cars are road-going cars modified to look like their World Rally Championship big brothers, so why is performance around a traditional race-track so important?

If a magazine thinks one road car is faster on the road than another, then that counts, particularly if someone actually times it.

Has anyone ever seen either car reviewed on a rally stage? It's what they're really designed for.

elondan

I'll start by saying I haven't driven any of the cars (P1, STI or Evo),
From what I read in the magazines, these cars are very close in their abilities, and it's down to personal taste.
*Autocar: Evo won, funny that the Evo V also beat the STI 4.
*Car: they wrote the P1 is better then the Extreme, but then again the STI 4 beat the Evo V.
*TG: Draw, Tif Needle liked the EVO better.
*evo: P1 is better.
I'm a Scoobie fan so I'll go with evo and Car,
I find it strange that in a Scoobie BBS so many people will stand up and defend the EVO VI,
NO loyalty to the firm that did the nobel thing and brought us the GT.

PAUL GEE

Elondan,

P1 better than extreme!!!. What they meant by the conclusion was that it was a more rounded everyday mode of transport. No problem with that, superb piece of kit BUT - get real, as a performance car the extreme completely destroys the P1, pure and simple. It was the same reason Tiff came to his conclusion.
Oh, just because this is a Subaru BBS does it mean that common sense is thrown out of the window and replaced by a rather large dose of chest beating, looks like that to me.

P1 ‘better than Extreme’ - god what next, P1 breaks land speed record!!

elondan

No need to get upset,
they said they liked the P1 better, not me,
it doesn't matter if as a performance car or as an all rounder, it was their conclusion.
Because the fact that the Scoobie and Evo are such a close call I was surprised that in a Scoobie BBS, there are people which favour the EVO.
And I don't think brand loyalty has anything to do with the amount of hair you have on your chest.
Oh and by the way, your logic made evo and Car favour the Impreza, what do you know?

PAUL GEE

El old boy,
Your words.....
I'll start by saying I haven't driven any of the cars (P1, STI or Evo VI).

Because they are such a close call why should you be surprised that level headed performance car fans should 'stand up and defend the EVO VI'. Simple really, just because we drive Imprezas doesn't mean that (without knowledge of the vehicle in question!) we would state something as dippy as 'I'm a Scoobie fan so I'll go with evo and Car'.
Chest beating whichever way you look at it. Ignorance possibly?
What do I know!
..... at least I’ve driven all the cars that you’ve mentioned, and feel that I can make a balanced decision as to the pros and cons of each one.
Do you go on holiday to the same place every year and eat the same food everyday. Wearing blinkers isn't Brand Loyalty.

kryten

A question about the RB5 entry in 'Recent History' section, it says:

UK limited edition. Stock chassis but bigger wheels and tyres, which make all the difference along with a power hike (which ISN'T warranted by Subaru UK).

Is this a mistake (bloody hope so!!). I thought all the prodrive mods left the subaru warranty unaffected?

elondan

To Paul,
The fact that you were lucky enough to drive both thes cars doesn't mean you have a clue to what driving is about, I'm not saying you don't.
Still I don't mind you insulting me, but it won't change the fact "Car" liked the Imp better than the Extreme, as a car.
I am biased towards the Scoob and it doesn't mean I don't respect other makes, in this case since we all agree the cars are close, I'll take a Scoob for it's looks, sound and because I like Subaru in general, if this makes me ignorant then so be it.

Jonathan

I like a couple of others have driven all three and owned two of the cars. Like Gary I felt the same thing as him but with the P1 against the MY00 I came from. Both the P1 and EVO are so close on performance its untrue. My old STI in the EVO mag test had a drag race with the EVO and was quicker, but only just. I'm quite happy to think they are equal. The extreme, which I havent driven might be quicker and a LOAD more money to boot. So not sure there can really be a direct comparison. I would still go for the P1 as on a bumpy B road I'm sure the P1 and std EVO VI would leave it behind. As some road tester said, just to Extreme. Might be a good rack car though.

Ive been close to buying an EVO VI twice. I'm put of by the fact that Ralliart according to most posts Ive seen make IM look gods. The car doesnt have a proper new car warranty, the servicing is nearly twice as much, its fuel range is crap and the suspension needs changing. Top that off that with Ralliart performance accesories you lose your warranty (unlike Prodrive). Sorry one more the Scooby is the car to have in this years WRC. EVO is not king of the castle anymore

However now Colt cars have apparently take control of distribution. The cars might start to come with a proper warranty. I will certainly take a long look at the EVI VII and hope that Colt take the same stance as IM with the P1 and tune/ tailor the car for the UK. Then when my year (max) of P1 ownership is up an EVO could be on the drive.

Jonathan