pappasmurf

.....do i understand correctly that a new shape Impreza will be launched in about 2006? Does anyone know whether Subaru are likely to keep with a flat four engine with that traditional Scooby burble or will they ditch it?
The reason i ask is that the new Legacy has a flat six engine which i don't think has that lovely burble...am i correct?
One of the main reasons i love my Scoob is the flat four engine....surely they wouldn't consider replacing it would they??

smurfy.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

A flat 6 would just make the car sound like a Porsche
There have been rumours of a 3ltr (flat 4?) coming out though.

Tony

pappasmurf

...Yummy!

john banks

Flat six would be delicious if they get the F/R weight distribution right.

greasemonkey

Almost certainly, yes. There's still a faint possibility of it being released for the 2005 model year, but that seems to be slipping back now, especially due to the negative reception that Zapatinas' concept cars got. The visual design of the next Impreza is absolutely crucial to Subaru given how much the bugeye fiasco cost them. Thus, they'll take the time necessary to make sure the next one is right...

Almost certainly. The only thing likely to change that would be if the FIA start harping on about going to a normally aspirated formula in the WRC again.

You're a bit previous really. The "burble" is already being phased out of the Impreza range. The writing's been on the wall since the end of 2002.

So? The old Legacy did as well. The new one is also available in four cylinder turbocharged form, so you can't really use this car as some sort of sign that Subaru are moving away from four bangers.

The latest quick Japanese (and US) spec Imprezas don't "burble" either.

The flat four is the best all-round solution for the Impreza, given the car's size and desired weight distribution. Provided the WRC stays a 2 litre turbocharged formula, this layout is likely to remain. However, you seem to think that flat four=burble. That's not correct. It's the unequal length exhaust manifolds that give the Impreza its signature exhaust note, and pretty soon all new turbocharged Imprezas will have the twin scroll turbo and equal length manifolds, which will mean the end of the "burble".

Are you talking about replacing the engine design or the sound? They decided to replace the sound a couple of years ago...

The 2003 model year JDM STi's had equal length manifolds, the USDM STi has them, the new turbocharged Legacys have them, and pretty soon all turbocharged Imprezas will.

The twin scroll/equal length setup has its own distinctive exhaust note, it's a harder edged snarl much more like the Impreza WRC or some quick motorbikes. TBH, I prefer it. This way of plumbing the turbo also just plain works better than the older setup, in a number of different ways.

[Edited by greasemonkey - 1/18/2004 5:00:31 PM]

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Great reply Greasemonkey. I like reading your posts, you seem to have excellent knowledge:

Alcazar

greasemonkey

B*ll*cks, I just make it all up as I go along!

johnfelstead

except some of it is wrong.

The USDM STi doesnt have equal length headers and twin scroll, it uses the normal non equal length setup so keeps the trademark burble.

I dont think WRC rules matter at all either, long gone are the days of manufacturers building their cars based on what the requirements of the WRC dictate, that was the whole point of abandoning GroupA and going to WRC regulations.

Subaru are always going to produce flat 4's, well always is a long time, so untill they move to electric/fuel cell engines.

greasemonkey

Right you are. Could have sworn it had a VF36. Don't know where I got that idea...

You're missing the point I was making John. WRC engines still have to be based on a series production block, albeit that it can come from anywhere in the manufacturer's range.

If at any point in the future (probably as a result of the FIA banning turbos) Subaru decided they wanted a six cylinder engine in the rallycar, I doubt the current six would be considered as a worthwhile basis as it's too old, big and heavy.

Also, while you're correct to say that the introduction of the WRC rules freed manufacturers up from slavishly applying rallycar niceties to costly homologation specials, marketing requirements would still advocate the roadcar having a generally similar transmission layout to the competition cars.

As you say though, there's no sign of Subaru moving away from flat four cylinder engines, which is the most important point in the context of this thread.

dr.scoob

As long as u can get 350+ BHP from it!!

johnfelstead

Subaru have always been about the flat configuration engine and AWD, it's their trademark, it was their trademark long before they became involved in the WRC.

I dont agree with you that the road cars must follow the WRC cars at all because of marketing, it isnt esential, it's a bonus. Ford, Peugeot and Citroen dont have a problem with the fact their road cars dont follow the WRC cars in their transmition or engine designs.

If WRC goes NA we will still all get Turbo engines. Subaru's flat 6 isnt a bad basis for a competition car either, if they did need to go to a 2.5litre NA 6, it's quite light and is after all just a flat 4 with 2 more cylinders on the end, it's still shorter than an inline 4.

[Edited by johnfelstead - 1/18/2004 7:07:02 PM]

pappasmurf

Thanks for the replies.
Pardon my ignorance, but if you took a 2003 JDM STI Impreza which has a twin scoll turbo and equal length headers, could you fit unequal length headers and get the 'burble' back?
Or is this defeating the object and going to severely reduce the engines performance... and going to cost a lot of money?

As you can see i'm in love with the Scooby burble at the moment ...and so are many others.

smurfy.

greasemonkey

Lol! I knew you were going to ask that! Theoretically it's possible, but the downsides involved in attempting to do so are legion.

Yes. The only reason the car had unequal length headers (and thus its unique engine note) in the first place was because they were easier and cheaper to make. Equal length headers were always a better performing option (which is why the Impreza WRC always had them), and it was only a matter of time before Subaru decided this was the way to go on the roadcars.

Difficult to quantify how much of a performance loss there would be. As for cost, you're looking at a few hundred quid for a set of headers, an expensive custom remap, plus your warranty going down the Swanee, at the very least. It'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face really.

If you're that in love with the sound, instead of buying an MY03 JDM STi and trying to make it sound like an old car, just save a lot of c*cking about and buy an MY03/04 STi Type UK instead. Old style single scroll turbo and unequal length headers come standard on those...

If you buy cars on the basis of what they sound like, why aren't you driving a Honda NSX?

The new Imprezas sound great. Sure, they don't sound quite like they used to, but given the improvements in refinement, power, throttle response and economy that the changes have brought about, I don't miss the "old" noise at all.

[Edited by greasemonkey - 1/19/2004 12:42:54 PM]

Baby Blue

'cause they don't cost £20K

BB

greasemonkey

You can get good used ones for a darn sight less than £20K