crispyduck

iTrader: (1)

Importing Impreza’s, as opposed to buying UK sourced ones, until recently, has been frowned upon. This is especially so when it comes to insurance companies and when it comes time to sell your ‘baby.’ In what seems the past year or so we have seen opinions change. For example, take the majority of insurance companies, as they ‘see’ a euro-import and a UK Impreza as the same car that they are. Now, do we see the same change flow down to the second-hand purchaser of your car? This is the purpose of this short poll - to round up Scoobynet'ters opinions of purchasing second-and 'new age' imported Impreza’s vice UK sourced ones.

When I say ‘imported’ I mean cars which meet the following conditions (similar to those that insurance companies enforce):

1. MY01-03 WRX or STi's imported from an EU member country e.g. parallel import, most likely from Belgium or the Netherlands
2. First registered (new) in the UK
3. Have a 3-year pan European warranty (and registered for warranty with Subaru UK)
4. Full UK specification, with the exception of the seats - either the UK 'Sports' seats (which have side airbags) or the optional 'Bucket' seats (which do not have side airbags, basically the same as the STi ones).
5. Has a ‘tracker monitor’ device fitted.

The basic questions:
Q.1. Would you buy an imported Impreza (excluding the financial aspect – see next question)?
Q.2. When comparing like with like e.g. second-hand UK car against the same second-hand model year euro-import car, would you expect to share in the discount that the original owner gained over the UK model? Let’s assume he/she ‘saved’ £2-3K as a minimum.
Q.3. Would you also expect to share in the discount that the original purchaser managed to get off at a UK main dealer? Again, assume he/she ‘saved’ £2-3K as a minimum.
The above leads me on to another question (I've added Q.4. below to my original post):
Q.4. Have you traded-in or attempted to trade-in a euro import car and received a 'fair' deal from a UK dealer.

Just so that you know, I am not a dealer in anyway shape of form, just a Scooby owner (for the last four years) with a euro-import MY03 WRX interested in a straight forward, clean, structured discussion on this topic.

Regards,
Steve.
P.S: Please feel free to email me personally if you prefer your options were kept private. Only with your written permission, I would like to ‘de-personalise’ and re-post your comments, removing anything which in context could connect you with your option. This would be in keeping with whole reason for Scoobynet’s existence – to bring together like-minded owners to form a shared knowledge-based repository for the greater good of the Scooby community :-)

[Editted to add Q.4. following on from some good discussion.

[Edited to add a link to a later thread called Pros and cons of buying a EU import? as it also contains some useful info regarding warranty and fitting PPP on euro-imports.]

[Edited by stevecrisp - 1/3/2004 4:59:26 PM]

[Edited by stevecrisp - 1/11/2004 8:47:02 PM]

BT52b

Q1 - Of course, they are identical anyway....
Q2 - no, you buy a 2nd hand car on it's current spec and condition, you don't care what country it was origianally sold. The price the seller paid is irrelevant, you are buying the car for what it is NOW.
Q3 - no, see 2.

Mark

Nigel H

As the owner of a Belgian MY01

Q.1. Would you buy an imported Impreza . Yes if the money to be saved is sufficent

Q.2.Yes. My euro won't be worth as much as UK since I don't have a comparative warranty and I have to source my own recovery.

Q.3. No. I'd pay what the market rate at the time, and then try to haggle.

JTM

I have a Belgian my01 which I purchaced 2nd hand.

Q1 Yes
Q2 Slightly less
Q3 Market Value. would the seller really admit to a prospective buyer that he had saved £££ on the retail price?(unless the buyer wanted a copy of the purchace invoice)

Cheers
James

crispyduck

iTrader: (1)

Thanks so far for your thoughts - keep them coming.

The consensus so far of four people seems to be that they should go for the current market value. This seems rational.
-Steve.

The Darkling

Q.1. Yes in my experiance EU dealers are more polite and helpfull than UK dealers same goes for subaru benelux. both speak perfect english

Q.2. NO considering the cars were built on the same production line by the exact same people using the exact same parts, also there is a qustion of the EU import being worth more because it will probabaly be fitted with a better alarm system than the snider sigma M30 fitted to UK cars.

Q.2 NO

crispyduck

iTrader: (1)

(BT52b and The Darkling), do you guys also currently own or have owned an imported Impreza?
Only asking so that we can accurately gauge the train of thoughts, e.g. is this also how people who have never actually imported a car think?
-Steve

clubby

I have a Euro Import STi7

1. Yes
2. Yes, but within reason.
3. No.

I think my answers to 2 and 3 may be inconsistent with each other. Why would I not expect any saving from a UK dealer to be passed onto me as the 2nd buyer, when I would expect to be paying less for a Euro import car as the 2nd buyer.

Based on my own experiences the 2nd hand Euro import car prices seem to be lower than UK ones. But a dealer discount on a new car has no bearing on it's second hand value.

PS: When did the pan European warranty thing start? I have an 02 STi, would this be covered by it?

GTMR

The question is about buying one second-hand, right? In which case I'm pretty sure the answers are:

1. Yes. I have a Dutch 03 WRX and I'm very happy with it (I haven't had any insurance hassle), so why not?

2. Yes, but not much. There are small but definite warranty issues (e.g. PPP), plus it would be obvious that it's an import.

3. No. Not unless the seller was green enough to brag, in which case I would negotiate accordingly.

MattW

Run UK Impreza Sti, previously imported a Seat Leon though.

1. No
Until the dealers wake up and treat imported cars equally, and this then filters down to the general car buying public I wouldn't touch one, and wouldn't recommend anyone do so either.

2. Yes
The market perceives the car to be inferior so it should be worth less.

3. No
Big discounts given on models will filter down into second hand values anyway, check out values of 2 year old Citroens, individual discounts are likely to be based on circumstance, no px, cash etc.

However I do agree with the comments above, they are generally built on the same line and therefore should be treated no differently from a UK car.

Interestingly a main Rover dealer recently advertised a Clio Sport. the car was 1 year old and was very good value. it seemed sus as you would expect the dealer to pass it on to a Renault dealer. My sister was very interested so I called the dealer checked the price and asked whether it was imported. The dealer confirmed the price and said it was a UK car. My Sister came down from Manchester for the weekend and we travelled from here to the dealer (40 miles). When we got there I checked the service manual and saw it had been pdi'd in Holland. I reckon the owner had shafted the dealer and he wanted to get rid. I did complain to the dealer via letter but never got a reply.



[Edited by MattW - 1/3/2004 1:32:17 PM]

richs2891

Ive had an imported MY02 WRX and an imported Mazda MX-5.
I traded the MX-5 in against the MY02 and did not have any problems with the dealer knowing where the car came from as both cars where imported from Belgium, so EU cars with exactly the same spec and warrenty etc.
The Subaru was bought from Bentlys of Shefield. (as have a few members on this site).
Dealer did admit he would have to sell it to a different garage than would normally but no problems with it.

Answers assuming identical specced car (excluding alarm / tracker) and warrenty
no 1) yes
no 2) No as buying on the car on spec and condition !
no 3) No, see above, some people are better hagglers when it comes to new car prices and this does nothing to reflect the 2nd hand value !
Still think its time that the industry realises that these cars are the same and are in no way inferior
Richard

rapiddescent

Q.1. Would you buy an imported Impreza?

-- Not for my first car, but maybe for trackday or 2nd car.

Q.2. When comparing like with like e.g. second-hand UK car against the same second-hand model year euro-import car...

-- I would expect to save the equivalent or more of the percentage price saved by being an import. i.e. an import car is worth EVEN less second hand.

Q.3. Would you also expect to share in the discount that the original purchaser managed to get off at a UK main dealer?

-- This already reflected in Glasses and Parkers

-=-=-=-=-
For me, buying a second car is as much about risk as it is about saving money. You pay less but incur the risk that the car has been owned by a nutter, or has a flaky history. For me, an imported car (no matter where it has come from) incurs a varying degree of risk. Dubai Port cars have the highest risk that something is odd, then japan, then australasia, then EU. So, on that scale I would expect a bigger price saving depending the risk.

I know EU imports are essentially the same car; but, lets face it, it is not completely UK, and you still have to go to the hassle about registering it for warranty and there is still an allbeit small risk that it could all go wrong.

For my second or third cars, I would buy 2nd hand import but would beat the seller down on price... After all, it is the buyer determines the market price, not the seller.

rd

crispyduck

iTrader: (1)

clubby, you asked when the 3-year pan European started and would your car be covered. In summary, yes, if you got your car from Belgium.

This is what it says in my "Supplementary warranty regulations" notice from Subaru which is included in my "Service and Warrant Booklet":

"Subaru cars delivered in Belgium after 19 December 2001 will have the following warranty conditions and period."

In summary the table that follows the above statement says the following:

General warranty = 3 year, max. 60K miles
Body (rust through) warranty = 6 years
Paint (surface) warranty = 3 years
Original spare parts = 1 year from purchase date

-Steve.

[Edited by stevecrisp - 1/3/2004 5:01:25 PM]

ZIPPY

I bought my MY01 from Belgium and i would buy another Euro import again new or 2nd hand.
Some people on here panic and think Oh my god what about a warranty,well mine came with a 3 year warranty and Subaru UK and my dealer could not have been better so far with the claims i have made.
I saw a Silver UK car in a showroom with the next chasis number along from mine (1 Digit up) it went to the UK mine went to Belgium and i saved £5.5k.
Until UK dealers start adjusting trade in and new prices accordingly, i will sell it privately when the time comes and import another one.

Zippy

crispyduck

iTrader: (1)

MattW,

You said, "until the dealers wake up and treat imported cars equally...". I wondered about this dealer issue myself also. With the new Eurpoean Union ruling relaxing the monopoly main dealers have over new cars has convinsed me that this will soon be problem of the past.

The only issue I assume will never go away is that if you import an EU car you are unlikely to be able to trade it in at a main dealer.

To all,

The above leads me on to another question (I've added Q.4. below to my original post):

Q.4. Have you traded-in or attempted to trade-in a euro import car and received a 'fair' deal from a UK dealer.

[Edit: Corrected a typo]

[Edited by stevecrisp - 1/3/2004 5:00:20 PM]

MattW

With regard to the breaking of monopolies I wonder whether Main dealers will treat cars bought from "independants" in the same way as they currently shun imports.

You must also remember the dealers are only trying to protect their market share. The prices are dictated by the manufacturer, so their hands are tied in most respects. IM are in a more difficult situation as they import the cars, so warranty work done at their expense on a car they made no profit on is as you will understand, a little gauling.

I understand the difference between the cost of importing and UK prices has narrowed considerably recently, and therefore many of the import companies have moved into brokering UK supplied cars. eventually all but the very best dealers will disappear, and that's not such a bad thing, although you may find you have to travel a little further to get a service.

PS - I'm not connected with the car industry in any way.

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Q1 Yes, but at the right price
Q2 Yes, as I know they saved money so I want the same deal or I may as well buy UK for 'peace of mind'.
Q3 As said before this already reflected in Glasses and Parkers
Q4 I have pretended to trade an import to see what happens if I ever bought one, the reaction wasn't good from the dealers I spoke to and just added to the hassle of trading in a car.

F

bigJoe

I’ve got a Belgium imported 02 WRX

Q1 – Yes, but the only reason for buying one is the financial aspect (i.e. saving a few G’s)

Q2 – Depends on the circumstances, but why not. One thing I can see happening is imports dragging the value of all second hand Imprezas down though.

Q3 – If someone owned up to a huge discount then why not (if you can get away with it)

Q4 – not yet and not likely to

The only think I’d add is that after just over a year of ownership of a euro car I probably wouldn’t buy one again, that doesn’t mean to say I’d buy a UK car (absolutely zero chance of that). I’d go for a Japanese car (not Cyprus or any other euro-like cars) because from my experience the main dealer servicing and part prices are an absolute con and I’d be confident enough with one years statutory rights as far as the warranty goes. The other thing is I’d want to modify the car so that kills the warranty anyway (even for a back box – how dumb is that).

As for the cut the dealer/IM think there’re owed (or missed out on) form my euro import – they wouldn’t have it anyway as there’s no way I’d pay around 19K for a new WRX.

PS I’m not dealer bashing, just giving my opinion .

ZIPPY

OOpps

Zippy



[Edited by ZIPPY - 1/3/2004 6:00:08 PM]

ZIPPY

Matt how is warranty work gauling on IM,they dont have anything to do with any claim as you make the claim from the country who supplied the car NOT IM,they lose no money and the dealer actually makes cash (Labour charges)which all gets billed back to the country of origin.

Dealers will always pull a face when it comes to trading in a Euro car but my dealer was more than willing to trade my MY01 against an 03.Dont get me wrong his price wasnt the best but he was still prepared to trade my car.

Zippy



[Edited by ZIPPY - 1/3/2004 5:59:12 PM]

MattW

Zippy - But IM are not making any money, the dealer is.

crispyduck

iTrader: (1)

MattW - I take your point about only but the best dealers may survive thus servicing may be harder. I hope this doesn't happen however if it does many more "specialists" in high performance engine servicing may gain the lost custom.

Taking things to the extreme, how far can Subaru expect a customer to "reasonably" travel to a dealer for servicing to keep the warranty valid? I wonder if a warranty claim would be rejected by a person who had their car serviced at a Specialist using genuine parts who's closest dealer was say 100 or more miles away. I suspect yes! Anyway, that's probabily another thread.

-Steve.

dumpling

My mate has a MY03 EU import and has had no problems whatsoever with UK dealers, insurance, IM. He has made 1 warranty claim with no problems

mutant_matt

Firstly, Matt, IIRC, IM make some money out of the parts which they supply to the dealer (which the original importer gets billed for). The dealer and IM make money out of the situation, and if the car is less than a year old, the originating importer gets their money back off the factory (Subaru/Fuji) so in that case, everybody except the manufacturer wins (and they can afford it ).

I am on my second imported Impreza. Insurance companies have been fine with EU imported cars for at least three years now (when I imported my first) and are always happy to use the VIN before the UK reg is obtained. I found when I came to sell my MY00 that there were plenty of interested buyers and that my car was only worth £1k less than a similar spec UK car, 18 months later. Considering I saved £8000 on the original purchase, you could say that I was quite happy

I think that the prices coming down and the weakened Pound vs Euro have made it hardly worth importing at the moment and this also seems to be across the board. I recently bought my wife a Leon Cupra and got it from a UK dealer who was cheaper than I could have got it for on the continent, and supplied it in two weeks, instead of several months.

Matt

crispyduck

iTrader: (1)

Good discussion so far. I would never have thought when I started this thread that you would be able to trade in a euro impreza at a UK main dealer - that was until I read it here! Let's not kid ourselves though it will obviously depend on the dealer.

I suppose at the end of the day we are all going to buy the best car for cheepest price and quite often that could be at the main delears. I know that if my local UK dealer could have come within £500-£1000 of the price and give me the optional bucket seats I would have bought from a UK main delear. Anyway they get my custom (for the first three years) for all the servicing anyway.
-Steve.

mutant_matt

That's not my experience!! None of the dealers I contacted would touch my MY00 EU car with a barge pole so I sold privately (which due to Scoobynet, was a breeze ). Some of the dealers told me that they would be happy to trade in an EU car but if IM heard about it, they would get in trouble so they declined.

Perhaps the tide is changing in that respect then? Perhaps impending lifting of block exemption is having an effect? Who knows?

Matt

CharlieWhiskey

Q.1. Yes, but would consider its status in the price
Q.2. Yes, as the seller would probably still have less depreciation than on a UK supplied car. The £1000 mentioned above would be reasonable and is a fraction of the original saving.
Q.3. No, as I've never heard of IM giving that sort of discount - If it was from a Car Supermarket however then I might expect some similar discount to Q.2. for the same reason.
Q.4. No, I own a UK car supplied 2nd hand from dealer and wouldnt do this again. Dealers in this country still havnt woken up. If Subaru Main Dealers in Holland and Belgium can sell the 'same' car for less then we are still being ripped off [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

MattW

Matt - I stand corrected

Charlie
It is a far more complicated issue than just assuming the car is the same so the price is the same. With different levels of tax, the burden of costs may be higher\lower on the continent which affects the price.

It may of course mean that we are actually being ripped off more than we think, but I'm no expert.

CharlieWhiskey

Er, what has tax gotta do with it? Dont you pay the same rate of TAX to HM Govt whether you buy it in the UK or import it? I am on about the dealers on the continent make a decent living by selling the same cars at a cheaper price than IM.

crispyduck

iTrader: (1)

Matt, Charlie - When you import a car from anywhere, the UK government will ensure you have paid a total of 17.5% in tax. If, like most people, you buy your Scooby from Europe with zero tax then you pay our government 17.5% tax. If you payed some in-country tax e.g. let's say Denmarks tax is 5% (it's not!) then you would pay the difference (12.5% tax) to our government.
-Steve.