allymac

I just wandered if there is an official line on going de-cat?

I replaced the centre pipe on my MY99 UK Turbo Impreza, but left the downpipe as I believe the car will still pass emmissions.

I would like to go the whole hog. but it worries me that one day I might in-advertedly run over someone and the Police will examine the car with a fine tooth comb. Sure, my insurance know I have a non-standard exhaust, but would they cover me if there are no cats in it?

Is this a grey area that people dont think about or am I paranoid and stoopid?!

Markus

This is one of the most disccused things on here.

Here is how I *think* it goes.

UK cars built after 94 have to pass an emissions test, which is part of the MOT, you fail the test you fail the MOT, you cannot legally drive until you get an MOT.

So, in theory, if you remove all cats, your car might no pass the emissions test, and thus no MOT.


If your car is a jap import then it does have to pass emissions testing, but it's not, or was not, as strict as the test for non-imported cars. I had a MY94 WRX Wagon which passed with a cat in the downpipe, and also passed when it had no cats in the system at all.

Some people have found they do pass with 1 cat, or even no cats.

What some people do is to fit the catted center section onto the car before the MOT, then take it off for another year, a bit of a chore I know, but it does work. The other option would be to find a 'friendly' MOT test center, which will pass you with 1 or less cats.

The question is, what about roadside emissions tests? well, in the three years I had my scoob, I never saw a roadside emissions test, let alone got pulled over for one, and I don't know anyone who has. Not sure what happens if you do get pulled, as if you have an MOT then you must have passed the test, so I guess all you need is a re-test, at which point the cat could be put back in, then taken off

Would like to say that the comments here are mine alone, and are not that of ScoobyNet, thus if I am saying anything illegal, then it's me saying it and not SN

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

i've got a MY99 uk with a full decat(all magnex) and it has passed it's MOT emissions for the last 2 years. i had a topic going recently about this and apparently it shouldn't pass with no cats, the test centre i use uses a new machine and the test is all above board so if mine passes i see no reason why yours shouldn't?
don't know about the roadside test,i think there was a topic about this a few days ago, might turn up in a search?

BexTait

RE roadside emissions tests. I have seen one of these somewhere, tho it was quite a bit ago and can't quite remember where (north west tho) so they are around. But having sed that they're prolly more interested in speeding.

mart360

surely some of our law enforcement menbers or resident mot testers would be able to clarify this


Mart

SPEN555

In the town where I live I once saw an emissions testing station. They had a couple of Police motorbikes which looked like they were riding round town to bring cars back to tested.

Thank **** I had sold my full de-cat scoob

Even with a cat they can still fail even though the government (tw%ts) said they would last the lifetime of the car.

I am currently running my new scoob with a cat in the downpipe.

Damian.

MadMark

I have seen 3 emissions tests in the Slough area in the last 3 months - all on the A4! So there is no way I am going for a full de-cat .......

S Page

The only vehicles i have seen pulled over on roadside emissions tests have been ones with thick smoke churning out the exhaust.

If you were to be stopped and failed you would be issued with a "vehicle defect rectification notice" where you have to get the problem fixed and the notice stamped and signed by an MOT station and return the notice completed to the police.
Me and my mates used to get these notice's issued to us by the police if they stopped us when we used to run our bikes with full race exhausts, it was ok thou as we used to know plenty of friendly bikeshops/mot stations that used to stamp the form, with the race exhausts still on the bike. Come mot time the bike shops just used to say bring your road legal exhaust in a bag with you, used to pass no problem everytime. Bike exhausts were also tested for sound level, don't know if they test the sound level of car exhausts.
So unless you exhaust resembles a smoke machine you should be ok, there should be plenty of smokers on the roads to keep them busy.

Might be worthwhile dropping Auto-Express a line to find out the legalities of emissions test failure.

Andy McCord

if you are stopped for a test with full decat you can ask for a deffered test at a mot station of your choice which has to be done in 7 days, which should allow you to refit your cat & pass.

tiggers

It never ceases to amaze me what you people on here will blame the government for.

tiggers.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I'm amazed I haven't been pulled over in the Nissan yet....I'm still running it on the mix of petrol/diesel (on the last 2 gallons now ) And it's little smokey to say the least

I would have thought a tatty looking D-reg Sunny with a youngish (perhaps not-so these days )male driving would be a sitting duck to plod.

Still I think it would still Pass the MOT emmisions wise, as it only smokes when cold or on 3/4 to full throttle or between gear changes. Doesn't smoke at all on idle/fast idle

Markus

The whole emissions thing is interesting, i've known 3yr old cars to fail the emissions tests! now that is scary, and the cat was working fine!

Kane

With complaints on the roadside tests from watch dog, testers themselves and local government cant see it being to much of a worry yet but this is what i did see:-

5.16 If the vehicle is found to be exceeding the prescribed emissions limits but within 10%, the tester should:

1.inform the vehicle user of this fact and give details of the emissions level recorded;
2.explain that an offence is being committed and that the engine needs servicing/maintenance attention; and
3.explain that no further action is being taken by the local authority on this occasion and that the vehicle user may proceed with their journey.

5.17 If the vehicle is found to exceed the emissions limits by more than 10%, the tester should:

1.explain this fact;
2.explain that an offence has been committed;
issue a Fixed Penalty Notice in accordance with the instructions in Chapter 6;
3.explain that the Fixed Penalty Notice will be waived completely if the motorist can show that the vehicle had passed an MOT test within the preceding year and if the emissions defect is rectified within 14 days. (To confirm this the motorist must present to the address on the Fixed Penalty Notice two MOT test certificates (one dated before, but no more than one year before, the date the vehicle was intially stopped; the other after, but no more than 14 days after); and
for vehicles under three years old, explain that the Fixed Penalty Notice will be waived completely if the motorist can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the issuing authority that all reasonable steps had been taken prior to the test to maintain the emissions performance of the vehicle within standards and limits required by legislation and if the emissions defect is rectified within 14 days.
Evidence of the former and proof of the latter (i.e. an MOT test certificate dated after, but no more than 14 days after, the date of the offence) should be sent to the address on the Fixed Penalty Notice.


Basically if you passed the MOT test for the previous 2 years you may get off. If not or dont want to fight it ten just pay the fixed penalty...

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Have a Scoobysports decatted centre section and back box my car went in yesterday for service and MOT and passed with no problems, like you I too was worried about it
Cheers
Colin

Paul Woodward

If anything on the car is illegal, your insurance company would be well within their rights not too pay out for any claim. Similarly if you've made any mods and not told them they wouldn't have to pay out (even non standard alloys).

Whether they bother to check is another matter, but in my experience they will try and worm out of paying out if they can.

Big Daz

Been worried about this also, So on friday I took my MY95 to the garage and got them to gas analyse it ;-
With only centre cat on & ScoobyECU - Pass (just)
With only centre cat on & Normal ECU - Pass ( pretty easily )
Stop worrying.
Big Daz

scoobyster

I've had a tug for a roadside emissions test (and general check of the tyres, lights, tax, etc. Didn't bother to check I had a licence or insurance though - bit odd I thought). Was to the North of Chester, the checkpoint place (which I think is usually used for lorries) at the end of the M56. They randomly chose about 10 of us from the stream of traffic (we were all in a row, so they weren't picking cars they might have deemed to be 'probable offenders').

Mine is a non turbo and still has its cat, so wasn't a problem. Not sure what the score is with N/A Scoobs anyway, maybe even without at cat it would have been fine. I thought every uk car after 1994ish had to have a cat, ie. physically have one, not just pass the emissions test. Not sure though.

Ben

yahtzee

here you go


from MOT MANUAL Home Page



RE CATS

'The catalyst test is part of the MOT test for most class IV spark ignition petrol engined passenger cars with four or more wheels first used on and after 1 August 1992.
Carbon monoxide (CO), hydrocarbons (HC) and lambda (~) are checked at fast idle speed and carbon monoxide (CO) is checked again at idle speed.'

will

yahtzee

i think personal imports is from 1995

snowcrash

paging TurboTeeth

allymac

Cheers for all the input peoples !

Going back to my original message though, heaven forbid, but say you ran someone over and the plod examined your car and it was found the cats were removed and it wouldnt pass an emissions test, what would be your position then?

beamer

Turboteeth

My MY95 WRX didn't have to have a cat because it was pre December 31st 1995 and I saw it written in black and white on the testers book.

But a word of warning, the cops were out a few months back with their sniffer dogs and they pulled about 10 Scoobs If you have a post 1995 car you need a cat, simple as that. If you don't and you get pulled by the sniffer dog team you will be heavily fined. Their bitches can smell the absence of a cat from miles off

Leslie

My MY94 STI has got one cat only,it is the sports free flow in the centre section. The car passes the MOT emissions test particularly easily and the sports cat has neglible effect on the power output.

Les.

Daz34

I do find it suprising that lots of garages who also happen to be MOT testing stations will openly say (often on this forum) that they will stick a cat centre section on your car for the test and then put your decat one back on afterwards

It is sort of like the police searching your house for drugs, after first agreeing to keep them safe for you, and then giving them back to you after the raid.

Is it strictly legal & ethical??

Darren

P1 Gordon

Regardless of MOT/Emission failures, I think you will find it is an offence to replace any part of the exhaust system that increases the noise or emissions than that originaly fitted by the manufacturer.

Scratch

iTrader: (1)

Erm - wouldn't have though so, otherwise all the the resellers of such products would have to supply them with suitable legal notices and I haven't ever seen that happen.

Although - thinking about it sensibly, there is probably a maximum noise level though ? But I don't know for sure.

P1 Gordon

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?ThreadID=258066

hades

There are lots of discussions about noise levels. However, paraphrasing, the construction and use regs say you can't modify an exhuast system to make it louder. This is interpreted as you can't modify the exhaust - e.g. take the packing out of a silencer - to make it more noisy, not that you can't change to an aftermarket exhaust that happens to be louder. On top of that, there are dB limits on exhausts set by SVA tests etc.Whilst e.g. prodrive, magnex, scoobysport systems will generally be quiet enough to be legal, full de-catted Blitz systems probably won't be. At track days, the limits can be much lower - even a full decat scoobysport may struggle to get under the tightest ones.

The simple answer, IMHO, is to use a sports cat. A bit pricier to buy, but doesn't limit power much compared to a decat, and you'll pass emmissions tests. There are quite a lot of sports cat systems about now.