NACRO

Re the 330D- look at the 0-100 times for an idea of its performance, well over 20 seconds. If you catch one in his sweet spot however and you are off boost it WILL destroy you in gear. All that torque isn't for nothing.

I used to race one quite regularly from the toll booths onto a 120kph limit. I'll give him credit he never gave up but was always soundly beaten. Now I don't bother with him so much as I've already demonstrated which car is quicker. I've also had a good run in with one through some very twisty dual carriageways through the mountains-ideal territory for a good torquey car like the BMW. I left it for dead and I'm pretty sure he was trying judging by the pissed off look/hand signal he gave me as I pulled in. Just to make sure I pulled back out again and harried him through a series of bends then overtook him uphill. It seriously p1sses off the drivers of these "fast cars" when an old foreign car blows them into the weeds.

[Edited by NACRO - 11/9/2003 9:19:18 AM]

Misha

C'mon, man, just wanted to share some experience. Lap times around Bedford Autodrome West Circuit: BMW M3 CSL 79.95sec, STi Spec C Ltd 80.30.(EVO magazine) P.S. CSL is slower than a manual M3 in a straight line. I drive Subaru and BMW they are both great cars. I would take a Scoob for winter and it is a cheap car comparing to a BMW.

[Edited by Misha - 11/9/2003 10:54:54 PM]

Mad Gypsy

In the dry the M3 has a stupid amount of grip and would fare quite well against a scoob in the 'twisties'. Who ever say's M3's can't go round corners has not driven one, the handling is nothing short of breath taking. In the wet is a different issue.
I can't see a STI8 PPP keeping up with a M3 over a 1/4 mile.
It took all 310 horses in my Type R to keep on the tail of an E46 M3. Keep in mind my Type R is only 1260kg and is a little more powerful than a STI8 PPP.

In all the comparisons I've seen, the STI8 PPP has never beaten an M3 to 60 and is normaly soundly beaten to 100.
I did see one test where the STI8 PPP beat the M3 on a track in the wet by a full second. So in certain situations the scoob could come out on top.
In all I don't think there would be a lot in it, but in most cases you have to favor the M3.

[Edited by Mad Gypsy - 11/9/2003 10:55:07 PM]

AK47

I have a jap spec STi 8 running on 280ps = 276bhp (not 280 as stated). I live Hong Kong and the fuel used here is the real nice stuff such as Shell V Power so there is already a major difference for running the basic cars (UK and Jap Spec STi). Here are the performance figures for my car with NO mods:

0-50km/h (30mph) = 1.44 secs
0-100km/h (62mph) = 4.6secs (spec C can do it in 4.3secs?)
0-150km/h (93mph) = 9.93 secs
0-180km/h (112mph) = 14.79 secs
0-400m (1/4 mile) = 12.95 secs

The spec c is only a tad quicker!

We don't get PPP out here but surely the above times above would be bettered fitting PPP. I hope this helps with the "my car is faster than your car" and "my car has more horse power than your car" arguements.

yes as others have said there is not much in it and I don't doubt the cornering on an M3 for a minute! but for the top end issue, the M3 would come into it's own or even a Merc S600L for that matter .

[Edited by AK47 - 11/10/2003 4:05:17 AM]

Dazza's-STi

M3 Times 2001 343 2.0 4.8 11.5 13.4 107
Figures are 13.4 1/4 mile @107mph, taken from http://www.syclone.freeserve.co.uk/rivals_cars.htm
Also looked at a US BMW forum and a guy managed 12.97 Quarter from a 6sp M3 after a burnout and was over the moon, loads of quotes saying ace time... My Sti did a 13.04 so this sounds bang on!
basicaly the PPP STi and a M3 E46 would be around the same... down a dual carriage way. That said the Stig got the STi around the track 1.5 sec fater than the M3...
Like some other guys i had a deul with an M3 recently-up my **** comming out of Leeds on Sat, I was taking it easy approaching a group of small roundabouts it was a little greasy but dry in parts. He arrived at my rear very quickly so I went 4 it and.... monstered the thing! 15 yds around the 1 r-bout and about 8 car lengths out of the 3rd... but I was really trying, full 4 wheel drifts round two roundabouts... M3 boy was trying as well went wide on r1 almost lost the rear on r2. I slowed then into a 40 zone and predictably he went blasting past! i had a 330i before the scood so know what he was up against, with the TC on the dash would just light up "safe but you can't leave a corner quick" With it off i could do a full roundabout sidways but it took me ages to get it right... but it wasn't fast!
The scoob just blasts out of the corner even mid way around you can engage warp drive!
Still like the BM though, like Andy said it does everything very very well, super smooth and a differnt league in terms of build. Did 120k in mine in 2 1/2 years and it never missed a beat. Hope the scoob does the same!

[Edited by Dazza's-STi - 11/10/2003 12:36:25 PM]

Mad Gypsy

There are so many bullsh1tters on this board! I laugh my **** off at some of the posts on here. Keep'em comin'!

Even if you say a STI8 PPP is as fast as a M3, which is fair.
The only way a 280bhp scoob will 'monster' a M3 is if the scoob is driven be Petter Solberg and the M3 is driven by your granny.

The M3 is the dog's ****** and not over rated. Most of you who have commented on the M3 have never driven one! As for the image, I grant you in some people's minds (small minded people) it has a bad image. However, I can't remember the last time I saw a munter sat in the passanger seat of a M3! A M3 has the power to snap knicker elastic at 100 yards! And there is a lot to be said for that

[Edited by Mad Gypsy - 11/10/2003 1:59:18 PM]

Dazza's-STi

Really like te EVO, was a real toss up between the EVO M3 and an STi had several tests in all 3. Had 40k in pocket choose!
Evo very nice, about the same in terms of handling as the Sti, maybe a bit sharper but everyone says that... and felt identicle in terms of power! BMW, I love them; one of the worlds best enigines, feels like tons more bottom end than the scoob, my 330i and the M3 were very similar a little less hard edge then the STI\ EVO and a good bit more edgy on the limit more body roll. Steerings not as quick lock to lock, but really nice inside.
STI got the vote this time other the EVO simply becouse the wfie type liked the looks better; and the EVO service intervals and prices are simply too high if you running it like I am with heavy mileage!
The BM lost for two reasons, 1 i wanted a change and 2 its very clincal.. not much you can do to make it different, make it feel like its yours and be different to every other one! Add 19's I suppose but everyones got them!
Think i've passed 3 STi's and about the same number of EVO's so even though the M3 looks v-nice it just don't jump out at you anymore! two many about, and they arn't far enough different to a regular 318 sport with big wheels really!
Get an Evo but make sure you have deep pockets! get an M3 and blend into the background, STI my choice and best of both worlds!
Looks good!
Handles as well as an EVO only @ 10 10ths will you see a difference!
Costs are high but reasonable.
depends what your after!

thats my thoughts anyhow!
Dazzzzazazazaazzaaaaaa

[Edited by Dazza's-STi - 11/10/2003 6:00:47 PM]

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Jeez fellas, lets calm it down to a riot!

I, personally have driven the folowing Scoobs...

96 WRX
97 STI V4 (?)
98 UK Turbo
00 UK Turbo
03 STI 8 PPP (current car), so although not an expert, I have experience of quite a few different derivatives so feel I am qualified to pass comment.

As for the M3, the only one I have driven was an E36 on an M plate with 70k on the clock.

The only conclusion this experience gave me was that my MY96 WRX (260PS) was faster than the 286 bhp (?) rear wheeler.

Anyway, as stated above, the figures for the STI 8 PPP and E46 M3 are practically identical. (bhp/tonne, 0-60 etc)

Both cars will be very hard to separate in terms of performance until you introduce variables such as wet roads etc where one car will have the advantage over the other.

In a straight line (which doesn't occur often in the real world) the M3 will stay "on song" for longer due to that sweet straight six, and may well have the beating of the Scoob into 3 figure speeds, but top speed never were the Scooby's strong points, nor their objective.

With regards to Mad Gypsy's comment...

Have you driven an STI 8 PPP with full de-cat and 19's?
Knicker elastic snapping-a-plenty!
I have "the power"
(Better quality of bird too! Not the pretentious, stuck up BM types!)

Regardless, why spend £41,000 on an E46 M3, when you can have an STI 8 PPP with almost identical performance and driver appeal for £14,000 less? This is a major contributing factor as to why the Scoob beats the M3 in many of the group tests.

Thats a hell of a lot of money in anyones book. It just doesn't justify it in my opinion which is why I'd chose the Scoob 7 days a week.

Having said that, if I won the lottery, I'd probably have both as I love the M3 too. Pity about the image associated with it....



[Edited by talizman - 11/10/2003 11:19:05 PM]

AndyBrew

Probably a forgon conclusion for most but not for me these are both my cars and today they were pitted against each other

OK the Scooby has always felt faster but then the Beemer has 230 hp (and costs more) with much less transmission loss than my PPP'd Scooby a good wad of torque and does everything very much quieter and smoother. So assuming the Scoob is on top fettle, no heat soak etc and the beemer having much more ontap power with no lag I didn't think there would be masses of difference in the straighline sprint ...... erm oh yes there is

Put it this way I gave the beemer a second head start from the lights (I was behind) and I had to brake just as I hit second LOL! The Scoob was all over it and the beemer danced with the rev-limiter twice trying to get away all the way up to about 70'ish I would say.

All in all the Scoob is obviosuly a vastly quicker car as most of you probably would guess, and in this instance it turns out it is, long live the Scoob

silver:scooby

To start with these are two totally differant cars, plus the sti8 has more power in stock form so already faster, with the ppp it's silly to thing that the bmw would beat you. I have just took delivery of brand new 330ci sport and yes it may not be as fast as my old scooby but its not that much slower, i know which car i would choose every time and it ant the scooby.

Next time try and beat a E46 M3 and see what the out come is then.

16vmarc

Oooooooooooooh!

AndyBrew

I said I own both these cars and had a niggly doubt over whether the Scooby was any quicker in a straightline, simply because the Beemer is very quiet and unruffled, and today I got the chance to compare the two.

And as for them being very different cars I agree however the BMW is around the same price as the Scooby with PPP and 18's and if BMW don't want to label a car as a driver's car and a sports car then don't call them :-

1. the utlimate driving machine

and

2. Sport LOL!!

subarujimmy

iTrader: (3)

Believe it or not, a mate of mine has a 03 reg 330 cabriolet, and I've got a 03 reg standard wrx. From the lights i can have him upto about 80ish, but after that his beemer comes on song and gains it all back. I think these are very evenly matched cars, but for different types of driver/driving.
I must say though, he does make me want to shrivel-up and die with laughter when the first bit of sun pokes-out, the roof goes down. lol

scooby-si

Next time try and beat a E46 M3 and see what the out come is then.

already done that and pushed he all over the road i thank you

Mad Gypsy

What bhp are you running to beat an E46 M3? I've had a couple of run in's with M3's and they are fooking fast! And that's in a 310bhp Type R.
There is no way on god's green earth will a 280bhp scoob keep up with a 343bhp M3. In the wet you might stand a chance, but in the dry you'll get toasted!
Even the E36 M3's are fast (321bhp and lighter than an E46), they are not much slower than an E46.

The few times I have had a play with a M3 I had to push all 310 horses to keep with the E46. He didn't pull away one bit, but then I couldn't have past him if it had been dual carriageway.
The E36 was a little slower, but I still had to push my type r very near to the limits to stay stuck to his bumper (which he didn't like one bit!) It was dry against both.

Those people who claim to have beaten an M3 in anything less than a 300bhp scoob are either lying or the M3 was not trying.

NACRO

330ci's are easy meat and that's in an old classic wagon with scoobyecu and nothing else. They definately don't like getting smoked by an old estate car.
I've stopped bothering with the 330D's as the speed differential is embarassing for them.

subarujimmy

iTrader: (3)

I've never raced a 330d, are they quick??? They have loadsa torque i believe.

scooby-si

its not always the car its the driver

u can have the fastest car on the road but if you cannt drive you might as well be in a standard NOVA

soon to be 375lbs torque

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

some loon in a my03 m3 overtook me on a single lane slip road so when it opened up to to 2 lanes i decided to putmy foot down for a laugh and had to put my foot on the brake thru 2nd and 3rd gear never got much past that as he turned off

subarujimmy

iTrader: (3)

"Might as well be driving a nova"!!!
No, nothing is that bad. lol

scooby-si

lol

Pavlo

That's what I thought, but the difference is very subtle, as I followed an E46 m3 thinking he would leave me for dead, but he didn't. In the same way I didn't leave a Honda Accord type R for dead (in a straight line).

Paul

calgonis

Strangely enough I had a run against an E46 M3 coupe the other day.. twice in fact. We popped onto private land - dead match from 30mph to 120mph he was one person up, we had to stop at 120 (its only a small land area)

Kinda odd because I though I would have got spanked.

94 WRX RA, with a few minor mods realistic 270bhp really

I used to blat Z3M's in my cozzy but that had 430bhp /shrug

Cheers

Andrew

AndyBrew

I think the difference in straight line speed once your up into higher numbers is quite small unless your in a monster!

I had a Vauxhall Senator which I assume was the 3.0 24v jobby keep up with me up to about 130 from 70, at which point I gave up because I thought my bonnet was going to come off

I test drove an M3 and although it sounded awsome I wasn't stunned by its performance in any way, just preference I guess. The 330 does the job I ask of it but only the Scoob makes me smile when I lift the garage door!

Sith

Them 3.0 24v Senators are fookin quick in gear. That's why they were Traffic cars.

AK47

The beemer 330 ci sport should be breakfast for an STi8 especially with PPP. I would say the new M3 is the better competition and more of a challenge. Just by looks the M3 is a very chunky and la ovely car. OK, it gets respect but perhaps not too much much respect. The STi8 can hold its own very well and don't be surprised it can perform so well against a car such as an M3. The only thing wouldn't race is a GT3 (and that's only a straight stetch)

talizman

iTrader: (1)

The only thing to consider is power to weight, and the STI 8 PPP and E46 M3 are practically identical in this department. (circa 220 bhp/tonne)

Torque is also very similar, so basically it comes down to how the power is delivered and driver skill.

The grip of the Impreza will give it a good lead in anything other than bone dry tarmac, but even in the dry its a close call.

Misha

Unfortunately, the STi doesn't stand a chance against a manual M3 E46. I am talking about a euro spec sti rated at 265hp. Don't really think that 15hp would make a lot of difference. As we raced in a straight line for several times the STi lost a lot to the M3 and my M5 Hamann(450HP). And you don't have to be a prof to properly launch a 4-wheel-drive car. However, you need to be quite good at launching rear-wheel-drive ones. I can tell you what happened- at start STi gained a full body length of me and M3. At the end of my first gear(~60kmph) i passed the STi and M3 was a bit behind me. As i shifted into second and maxed it out I lost both STi and M3. So it was around 100kmph=62mph. Introducing third and steadily moving away from M3, which is 1 car length away from STi and moving away from it. I passed the 402metre(1/4mile) mark having around 1.5-2 car lengths over M3 and M3 was around 1.5-2 car lengths from STi. I recon that to beat an M3 in the straight line STi should be around 330HP or 340HP.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

As said previously, a PPP STI is 305 bhp, and exactly the same power to weight ratio as an E46 M3.

Bragging about a 450bhp car beating a 265bhp one is like an STI owner bragging about beating an 80bhp car........

Whats your point?

Misha

I was talking about a 265HP euro spec and stating that a 15HP increase to 280, which is a Jap spec STi, won't make a difference at all. With 305HP, you might be able to beat an M3 to 62mph, but you will loose at 1/4mile. As i said you would need at least 330-340HP to beat an M3.