22b!
11 March 2003, 11:59 AM
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I understand what your saying Chuck, but to be honest I love rally derived cars, I have a 20v Quattro and was looking for a quattro sport earlier this year, but they are to expensive for me!!
I own a STI RA and love it to bits, I've always loved Scoobies and the 22b is the ultimate, I have been watching prices drop to about the 25K mark and I think they won't drop much more due to the limited numbers of the cars and the desirability....could be very wrong though!!!
How low do you think the 22b prices will drop to before they hold up?
Cheers
Dom.
[Edited by dominicm - 11/3/2003 12:00:35 PM]
I own a STI RA and love it to bits, I've always loved Scoobies and the 22b is the ultimate, I have been watching prices drop to about the 25K mark and I think they won't drop much more due to the limited numbers of the cars and the desirability....could be very wrong though!!!
How low do you think the 22b prices will drop to before they hold up?
Cheers
Dom.
[Edited by dominicm - 11/3/2003 12:00:35 PM]
11 March 2003, 06:47 PM
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...Up to a point. Then as more and more of them get written off/modified/heavily used, values for mint ones will eventually start to go back up.
How long this will take though is anyone's guess. This is not a particularly good time for looking at any modern car as an investment.
[Edited by greasemonkey - 11/3/2003 6:48:05 PM]
How long this will take though is anyone's guess. This is not a particularly good time for looking at any modern car as an investment.
[Edited by greasemonkey - 11/3/2003 6:48:05 PM]
03 November 2003, 08:51 AM
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Morning,
I'm seriously thinking about buying a 22b as a second car and a bit of an investment! Do you think that the 22b's will hold their value or even increase, a bit like the Audi Quattro Sport etc.
I have seen one of the 3 elusive 000 cars which was given to Nicky Grist by Subaru for sale, do you think this is worth a premium over a standard UK 22b.
I believe that there were only 16 22b type UK's offically sold and that only 426 were made worldwide.
Cheers
Dom.
I'm seriously thinking about buying a 22b as a second car and a bit of an investment! Do you think that the 22b's will hold their value or even increase, a bit like the Audi Quattro Sport etc.
I have seen one of the 3 elusive 000 cars which was given to Nicky Grist by Subaru for sale, do you think this is worth a premium over a standard UK 22b.
I believe that there were only 16 22b type UK's offically sold and that only 426 were made worldwide.
Cheers
Dom.
03 November 2003, 10:50 AM
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I have seen one of the 3 elusive 000 cars which was given to Nicky Grist by Subaru for sale, do you think this is worth a premium over a standard UK 22b.
FMIC etc
Who is selling it? Do you have a link?
03 November 2003, 06:15 PM
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No reason why they should stop depreciating....is there?
The Sport Quattro was 'The Real Deal' as a Rally Car for the road.
The 22B is 'only' a replica of a real World Rally Car.
The Evo Integrale has more of a claim on the Icon front - again being a true Homologated Rally Car for the road, but they have continued to loose value as you would expect.
There's a world of difference between a piece of group B exotica and a group A replica (or original).
Dog.
The Sport Quattro was 'The Real Deal' as a Rally Car for the road.
The 22B is 'only' a replica of a real World Rally Car.
The Evo Integrale has more of a claim on the Icon front - again being a true Homologated Rally Car for the road, but they have continued to loose value as you would expect.
There's a world of difference between a piece of group B exotica and a group A replica (or original).
Dog.
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04 November 2003, 08:00 AM
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The 22b is nearer to the rally original than the sport quattro is IMHO!!
Quote "The technical specification of the car had to be a list of superlatives and the engineers at Subaru and Prodrive let their imagination run wild.
The engine was bored out to 2.2 litres, retaining the same stroke as the stock 2.0 litre engine. This had the effect of giving the car a torque curve that wasn’t even a curve. It is a steep climb and table like flat line, when plotted on a graph. The increase in mid range performance gives the car 70bhp more than its 2.0 litre brothers, at only 3,000 rpm. Such was the mid range power, that many respected journalists embarrassed themselves by stating that the car must produce over 350bhp. No 22B has broken the voluntary power limit, in standard form.
Although the engine still complied with the Japanese voluntary power limit of 276bhp, it is how and where it delivers this power that is so enjoyable… and the 22B delivers usable power like no other modern car. Its turbo is a large IHI VF23 roller bearing unit, providing huge volumes of compressed air, but with very low inertia properties. Its fuel rails are custom units, required to match the demands of such a highly tuned engine and the pistons are forged lightweight units, so as to minimise the weight of their 98mm bulk. Transmission is via the same gearbox as the STI IV type R, incorporating the driver adjustable viscous centre differential. The front and rear track were increased by 40mm and 80mm respectively. This was partially achieved by using BBS 17x8.5” wheels and by redesigning the rear suspension arms and driveshafts.
Most of the mechanical parts of a 22B are stock items on other Subaru cars, the 22B just uses the best of what was available. But the most interesting part is the shell.
Every car was hand made, starting with a lightweight 2 door WRX RA shell and then cutting off the rear arches. The new “blown” arches were welded in their place and the front of the car received similar appendages to cover to massive wheels and extra track. The dimensions of the car were now virtually identical to the car watched by millions, in the hands of Subaru’s new driver line up, Richard Burns and Juha Kunkkenhann. The rear spoiler has the same adjustable foil as the WRC car, for increasing down force on twisty tarmac events.
A very special car I believe, just scare of losing a load of money with depriciation!!
Dom.
Quote "The technical specification of the car had to be a list of superlatives and the engineers at Subaru and Prodrive let their imagination run wild.
The engine was bored out to 2.2 litres, retaining the same stroke as the stock 2.0 litre engine. This had the effect of giving the car a torque curve that wasn’t even a curve. It is a steep climb and table like flat line, when plotted on a graph. The increase in mid range performance gives the car 70bhp more than its 2.0 litre brothers, at only 3,000 rpm. Such was the mid range power, that many respected journalists embarrassed themselves by stating that the car must produce over 350bhp. No 22B has broken the voluntary power limit, in standard form.
Although the engine still complied with the Japanese voluntary power limit of 276bhp, it is how and where it delivers this power that is so enjoyable… and the 22B delivers usable power like no other modern car. Its turbo is a large IHI VF23 roller bearing unit, providing huge volumes of compressed air, but with very low inertia properties. Its fuel rails are custom units, required to match the demands of such a highly tuned engine and the pistons are forged lightweight units, so as to minimise the weight of their 98mm bulk. Transmission is via the same gearbox as the STI IV type R, incorporating the driver adjustable viscous centre differential. The front and rear track were increased by 40mm and 80mm respectively. This was partially achieved by using BBS 17x8.5” wheels and by redesigning the rear suspension arms and driveshafts.
Most of the mechanical parts of a 22B are stock items on other Subaru cars, the 22B just uses the best of what was available. But the most interesting part is the shell.
Every car was hand made, starting with a lightweight 2 door WRX RA shell and then cutting off the rear arches. The new “blown” arches were welded in their place and the front of the car received similar appendages to cover to massive wheels and extra track. The dimensions of the car were now virtually identical to the car watched by millions, in the hands of Subaru’s new driver line up, Richard Burns and Juha Kunkkenhann. The rear spoiler has the same adjustable foil as the WRC car, for increasing down force on twisty tarmac events.
A very special car I believe, just scare of losing a load of money with depriciation!!
Dom.
04 November 2003, 09:12 AM
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The Sport Quattro was built for rallying only. They, just like ford with their RS200, had to sell some to the public so they could go rallying. These cars had to be able to be used on rallying with little chnages.
The sport quattro was built using Kevlar, Aluminium, Plastic and very little steel. The engine had a very little tweaks done as you weren't allowed to change things. Standard for the road was a detuned 306 BHP. The engine internals etc were good for 450 bhp without any changes. Adding suitable additional cooling etc, and a few other small changes produced nearer 500 bhp. Try running the 22b withgout serious changes and you are in trouble. Tuning any Audi up, usually involved raiding the sport quattro parts bin, ie Manifold, Turbo, 20v Head, Injection etc. The sport quattro, along with the RS200 and similar cars are in a different class to the 22b. Lets face it, the 22b is a very nice modern car, but is stupid to say its far more closer to a rally car than a sport. You forget that these true rally cars were produced and sold almost at a loss as they had to include rally technology. In 1985 they sold for over £55,000. In todays money that is £115,000. In those days you could by porsches and ferrari cheaper. The point is these were serious cars. The 22b, is a Subaru with a body kit, but anyone who dreams they are in the same class as a RS200 & Sport needs to look more closely at these cars before making such a statement.
The sport quattro was built using Kevlar, Aluminium, Plastic and very little steel. The engine had a very little tweaks done as you weren't allowed to change things. Standard for the road was a detuned 306 BHP. The engine internals etc were good for 450 bhp without any changes. Adding suitable additional cooling etc, and a few other small changes produced nearer 500 bhp. Try running the 22b withgout serious changes and you are in trouble. Tuning any Audi up, usually involved raiding the sport quattro parts bin, ie Manifold, Turbo, 20v Head, Injection etc. The sport quattro, along with the RS200 and similar cars are in a different class to the 22b. Lets face it, the 22b is a very nice modern car, but is stupid to say its far more closer to a rally car than a sport. You forget that these true rally cars were produced and sold almost at a loss as they had to include rally technology. In 1985 they sold for over £55,000. In todays money that is £115,000. In those days you could by porsches and ferrari cheaper. The point is these were serious cars. The 22b, is a Subaru with a body kit, but anyone who dreams they are in the same class as a RS200 & Sport needs to look more closely at these cars before making such a statement.
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