Scooby vs. Cossie shootout....
26 April 2000, 04:42 PM
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Oz,
I spoke to Stef last night, he said everything is going well, but the Cat 4 was 22B and only produced 310BHP on the roalling road next to a 380BHP Escort Cossie. Stef will be giving a full update later today or tomorrow, good luck boys.
Harj.........
I spoke to Stef last night, he said everything is going well, but the Cat 4 was 22B and only produced 310BHP on the roalling road next to a 380BHP Escort Cossie. Stef will be giving a full update later today or tomorrow, good luck boys.
Harj.........
26 April 2000, 06:40 PM
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Oz
I believe the "Standard" Escort Cosworth was 280BHP with 299 lb torque (not talk as with most cossies
).
My standard/unmodded MY99 5dr made 234BHP & 237 lb
Gavin, the escort cos man, ran 6.14 0-60, 15+ 1/4, & 131 top speed.
Mine done 5.8 0-60, 14.8 1/4 & 135 top speed.
Where does the torque on the cossie goto????
The handling test was a figure of 8 over 5 circuits & Gavin took it by 4 secs (I think)
I am sure Stef will post the rest of the days happenings in due course. Eventfull day with some v.good times, surprising results, some unfortunate occurances & 2 unlucky cossie boys getting a lift home in a scoob.
Stef in sideways play mode is a gas
JamesH the escort cossie killer
[This message has been edited by JamesH (edited 26-04-2000).]
I believe the "Standard" Escort Cosworth was 280BHP with 299 lb torque (not talk as with most cossies
).My standard/unmodded MY99 5dr made 234BHP & 237 lb
Gavin, the escort cos man, ran 6.14 0-60, 15+ 1/4, & 131 top speed.
Mine done 5.8 0-60, 14.8 1/4 & 135 top speed.
Where does the torque on the cossie goto????
The handling test was a figure of 8 over 5 circuits & Gavin took it by 4 secs (I think)
I am sure Stef will post the rest of the days happenings in due course. Eventfull day with some v.good times, surprising results, some unfortunate occurances
& 2 unlucky cossie boys getting a lift home in a scoob.Stef in sideways play mode is a gas
JamesH the escort cossie killer
[This message has been edited by JamesH (edited 26-04-2000).]
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26 April 2000, 08:22 PM
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WAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY!
WE WON!!!!!!
WEEEEEEEEEE ARE THE CHAMPIONS, MY FRI-END!!!
No in fact, I tell a lie, we didn't win, WE PULVERISED THEM!!!!!!! Scoobies 4 Cossies 0.
The Cossie is dead, long live the Scoob!
To say the last couple of days has been eventful would be an understatement to say the least, but here's a brief summary....
Our Cat 1 was James H, Cat 2 was myself, Cat 3 was Craig H's STi and Cat 4 was Stef's (?) 22B.
The event began at Superchips in Buckingham, for all the cars to be dynoed.
I was hoping in particular that this would give me a better idea of my own cars power, as the PE dyno is widely acknowledged to be slighty out.
Here are the figures....
..........SCOOBIES..............COSSIES
Cat 1...234bhp/237lb........247bhp/299lb
Cat 2...248bhp/248lb........247bhp/280lb
Cat 3...287bhp/275lb........285bhp/294lb
Cat 4...311bhp/303lb........354bhp/371lb
Even with the gaps, it's fairly obvious that there were some dubious recordings, most notably the torque figures from the first two Cossies. Superchips checked the ECU and confirmed it was std, so all I can say is the dyno must have had a bad day!!!
Nobody believed the Escort Cossie was that powerful, even the Cossie boys (except the owner!!! ).
The other thing that concerned me was the difference between mine and the std Scoob.
I would have been very happy with 248/248 had the std Scoob been 215/215, as it's what I was expecting. As you can see, the std Scoob got very good figures, similar to those attained by std cars at PE. You would think therefore that my figures would have been similar to the PE ones, but my power is down by 20bhp and my torque increased by 13lb!!!
Answers on a postcard please!!!!!
The figures simply don't tally up, even with the wheel figures!!!! (also at home! ).
When I post them all I'll see what you lot think.
Anyway, at the end of the day, the Cossies were all the more powerful, which is what we were expecting, and hoping for.
Today then, we were off to Alconbury Airfield for the performance tests and general blasting.
It also led to the first Cossie victim...the cat 4 car had tappet problems, and didn't even make it to the event!!! Unfortunate, as we would have liked to have seen the figures, but a victory is a victory, even when obtained by default. It's probably lucky for us, as the 22B certainly would not have been up to the task!
The timing gear was then attached to the cars for the performance tests.
Again, these are the figures I remember...
...it's worth noting that these figures are IN THE WET, using Datronic timing gear, with two people in the car......
0-60 / 1/4 mile / top speed
...........SCOOBIES..........COSSIES
Cat 1....5.8/14.8/135......6.1/15+/131
Cat 2....4.5/13.3/145......? / ? / ?
Cat 3....4.3/12.9/150......5.5/15./146
Cat 4....4.8/13.8/140......... n/a
Sorry I can't remember the other Cossie figures, all I know is they were all slower than the Scoobs!!!
It goes without saying that I was over the moon with my figures, and was the fastest car to 60 that Revs had EVER timed....until Craig ran, managing a 4.4 and then a 4.3!!!
Nice one Craig. Well done to James for getting the std car under 6secs too.
During the tests, my opponent decided it'd had enough and decided to destroy it's drive shaft!!!
I can't say I was surprised!!!!
The 22B's figures were perhaps a bit disappointing, but it turned out he had a clutch problem (apparently! ) and he went home at lunch, didn't even say goodbye!
But then who would be chuffed if their 22B was slower than an STi AND a UK car?
Hard luck Stef (not me!!!)
We also had a brief handling circuit, which involved no handling whatsoever (!) as it was basically a figure of eight. Craig's STi was the quickest here, as it was able to stay in 3rd gear all the time. My changing down into second meant I was unable to match his time, but came in a respectable 3 secs slower after 5 laps.
This was the only discipline the Cossies won anything, as the Escort Cossie beat James by a few secs, but then it bloody well should do with 299ft/lb shouldn't it??????
The mag will actually be scoring this test on average and best lap times over the two runs, so we won't know the official outcome until the mag's published.
Mike R managed to get his car trailered up for a quick blast, but it turned out to be too little too late.
The final nails had been well and truly hammered into the Cossie coffin!
The day ended with some sideways action at one of the bends, and a straight line race between the remaining 5 cars, which the STi won, followed by me and the Cat 3 Cossie.
All in all then, a resounding victory for the Scoobs.
Mike fielded a full team of 4WD Cossies to 'even things up'.
Cheers Mike!
Big thanks and congratulations to all the team, and all the guys at REVS who are actually a very sound bunch of blokes.
No doubt we'll see them again soon.
Stef.
PS This is for all the Cossie boys that have come over for a read.... :rasp:
PPS The article will be the main feature in the July issue of REVS, out June 1st.
PPPS REVS will soon be organising a Scooby/Cossie track day...watch this space.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 26-04-2000).]
WE WON!!!!!!
WEEEEEEEEEE ARE THE CHAMPIONS, MY FRI-END!!!
No in fact, I tell a lie, we didn't win, WE PULVERISED THEM!!!!!!! Scoobies 4 Cossies 0.
The Cossie is dead, long live the Scoob!
To say the last couple of days has been eventful would be an understatement to say the least, but here's a brief summary....
Our Cat 1 was James H, Cat 2 was myself, Cat 3 was Craig H's STi and Cat 4 was Stef's (?) 22B.
The event began at Superchips in Buckingham, for all the cars to be dynoed.
I was hoping in particular that this would give me a better idea of my own cars power, as the PE dyno is widely acknowledged to be slighty out
.Here are the figures....
..........SCOOBIES..............COSSIES
Cat 1...234bhp/237lb........247bhp/299lb
Cat 2...248bhp/248lb........247bhp/280lb
Cat 3...287bhp/275lb........285bhp/294lb
Cat 4...311bhp/303lb........354bhp/371lb
Even with the gaps, it's fairly obvious that there were some dubious recordings, most notably the torque figures from the first two Cossies. Superchips checked the ECU and confirmed it was std, so all I can say is the dyno must have had a bad day!!!
Nobody believed the Escort Cossie was that powerful, even the Cossie boys (except the owner!!!
).The other thing that concerned me was the difference between mine and the std Scoob.
I would have been very happy with 248/248 had the std Scoob been 215/215, as it's what I was expecting. As you can see, the std Scoob got very good figures, similar to those attained by std cars at PE. You would think therefore that my figures would have been similar to the PE ones, but my power is down by 20bhp and my torque increased by 13lb!!!
Answers on a postcard please!!!!!
The figures simply don't tally up, even with the wheel figures!!!! (also at home!
).When I post them all I'll see what you lot think.
Anyway, at the end of the day, the Cossies were all the more powerful, which is what we were expecting, and hoping for.
Today then, we were off to Alconbury Airfield for the performance tests and general blasting.
It also led to the first Cossie victim...the cat 4 car had tappet problems, and didn't even make it to the event!!! Unfortunate, as we would have liked to have seen the figures, but a victory is a victory, even when obtained by default. It's probably lucky for us, as the 22B certainly would not have been up to the task!
The timing gear was then attached to the cars for the performance tests.
Again, these are the figures I remember...
...it's worth noting that these figures are IN THE WET, using Datronic timing gear, with two people in the car......
0-60 / 1/4 mile / top speed
...........SCOOBIES..........COSSIES
Cat 1....5.8/14.8/135......6.1/15+/131
Cat 2....4.5/13.3/145......? / ? / ?
Cat 3....4.3/12.9/150......5.5/15./146
Cat 4....4.8/13.8/140......... n/a
Sorry I can't remember the other Cossie figures, all I know is they were all slower than the Scoobs!!!
It goes without saying that I was over the moon with my figures, and was the fastest car to 60 that Revs had EVER timed....until Craig ran, managing a 4.4 and then a 4.3!!!
Nice one Craig. Well done to James for getting the std car under 6secs too.
During the tests, my opponent decided it'd had enough and decided to destroy it's drive shaft!!!
I can't say I was surprised!!!!
The 22B's figures were perhaps a bit disappointing, but it turned out he had a clutch problem (apparently!
) and he went home at lunch, didn't even say goodbye!But then who would be chuffed if their 22B was slower than an STi AND a UK car?
Hard luck Stef (not me!!!)
We also had a brief handling circuit, which involved no handling whatsoever (!) as it was basically a figure of eight. Craig's STi was the quickest here, as it was able to stay in 3rd gear all the time. My changing down into second meant I was unable to match his time, but came in a respectable 3 secs slower after 5 laps.
This was the only discipline the Cossies won anything, as the Escort Cossie beat James by a few secs, but then it bloody well should do with 299ft/lb shouldn't it??????
The mag will actually be scoring this test on average and best lap times over the two runs, so we won't know the official outcome until the mag's published.
Mike R managed to get his car trailered up for a quick blast, but it turned out to be too little too late.
The final nails had been well and truly hammered into the Cossie coffin!
The day ended with some sideways action at one of the bends, and a straight line race between the remaining 5 cars, which the STi won, followed by me and the Cat 3 Cossie.
All in all then, a resounding victory for the Scoobs.
Mike fielded a full team of 4WD Cossies to 'even things up'.
Cheers Mike!
Big thanks and congratulations to all the team, and all the guys at REVS who are actually a very sound bunch of blokes.
No doubt we'll see them again soon.
Stef.
PS This is for all the Cossie boys that have come over for a read.... :rasp:
PPS The article will be the main feature in the July issue of REVS, out June 1st.
PPPS REVS will soon be organising a Scooby/Cossie track day...watch this space.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 26-04-2000).]
26 April 2000, 08:25 PM
#9
standard escort cossie is 220BHP running just 9 PSI boost.
Hence my car is called a westfield ZEi 220 (has an escort cossie engine as standard).
The most you can get from an escort cossie running with standard injectors is 275BHP running 15PSI boost(18PSI overboost).
If the "standard" escort cossie showed 275BHP it wasnt standard!
380BHP cat 4 cossie, thats pants, i know people with over 500BHP dyno veryfield.
Hence my car is called a westfield ZEi 220 (has an escort cossie engine as standard).
The most you can get from an escort cossie running with standard injectors is 275BHP running 15PSI boost(18PSI overboost).
If the "standard" escort cossie showed 275BHP it wasnt standard!
380BHP cat 4 cossie, thats pants, i know people with over 500BHP dyno veryfield.
26 April 2000, 08:32 PM
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John.
A lot of the figures are questionable.
Superchips didn't seem very comfortable with setting the cars up at all which may explain it.
Also, the Cat 4 Cossie is capable of 11.8sec 1/4 miles, which is why it was picked in the first place. I know there are more powerful Cossies, but then we didn't have our first choice 400bhp Scoob either!
Are you gutted the Cossies got stuffed then?
Stef.
A lot of the figures are questionable.
Superchips didn't seem very comfortable with setting the cars up at all which may explain it.
Also, the Cat 4 Cossie is capable of 11.8sec 1/4 miles, which is why it was picked in the first place. I know there are more powerful Cossies, but then we didn't have our first choice 400bhp Scoob either!
Are you gutted the Cossies got stuffed then?
Stef.
26 April 2000, 08:52 PM
#13
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Stef,
Well done - Mike you let me down. Bahhhh!
I would suggest your inaccuracies with the rolling road figures (with scoobs anyway), will be down to the incorrect wheelbase set on the rollers. Changes in cm's on the rollers can have dramatic effects on the output's!!!!
Powerstation seem to have there's ****-on. Are you sure you don't want to come to the Scooby Dyno day - there are still a couple of places left!!!
Shaun.
Well done - Mike you let me down. Bahhhh!
I would suggest your inaccuracies with the rolling road figures (with scoobs anyway), will be down to the incorrect wheelbase set on the rollers. Changes in cm's on the rollers can have dramatic effects on the output's!!!!
Powerstation seem to have there's ****-on. Are you sure you don't want to come to the Scooby Dyno day - there are still a couple of places left!!!
Shaun.
26 April 2000, 09:02 PM
#14
Life isn't fair though is it stef. 
john the Cossie Killer Killer (i bloody hope its dry at donno otherwise i am eating plenty of humble pie 
)
[This message has been edited by johnfelstead (edited 26-04-2000).]
john the Cossie Killer Killer
(i bloody hope its dry at donno otherwise i am eating plenty of humble pie ) [This message has been edited by johnfelstead (edited 26-04-2000).]
26 April 2000, 09:10 PM
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Well done guys.
Good to see that you felt you did the side proud, just glad I didnt stuff it up for us.
Stef if only youd have told me it was that sort of handling test!
robski
Good to see that you felt you did the side proud, just glad I didnt stuff it up for us.
Stef if only youd have told me it was that sort of handling test!
robski
26 April 2000, 09:11 PM
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Shaun.
Thanx!
I would agree that your diagnosis is probably correct, they had major problems setting the rollers up.
I'm at PS for a dyno run in a couple of weeks anyway, so we'll see there.
I'm happy with my figures, but if everyone elses are wrong, then mine are too.
John.
We'll see, the forecast is rain though! :rasp:
Rob.
I didn't know!!!
Not really a handling test at all, sorry.
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 26-04-2000).]
Thanx!
I would agree that your diagnosis is probably correct, they had major problems setting the rollers up.
I'm at PS for a dyno run in a couple of weeks anyway, so we'll see there.
I'm happy with my figures, but if everyone elses are wrong, then mine are too.
John.
We'll see, the forecast is rain though! :rasp:
Rob.
I didn't know!!!
Not really a handling test at all, sorry.
Stef.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 26-04-2000).]
26 April 2000, 09:57 PM
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Ahhh, but John, you are not yet 'Stef The Cossie Killer Killer'!!!!
Self-proclaimation prior to attaining the title is not a good idea.
I hope for your sake it is dry...
As I've said, the title is irrelevant anyway due the cars being in COMPLETELY different classes, but if it makes you feel better...
Stef.
Self-proclaimation prior to attaining the title is not a good idea.
I hope for your sake it is dry...
As I've said, the title is irrelevant anyway due the cars being in COMPLETELY different classes, but if it makes you feel better...
Stef.
27 April 2000, 07:29 AM
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Stef,
Weldone to you and the guys, I actually had my doubts. But now everything is proven, can we all forget that the Cossie boyz even existed The Cossie did die with the dinosaurs
Harj.......
PS. Still half asleep, on Swiss time.
[This message has been edited by harj (edited 27-04-2000).]
Weldone to you and the guys, I actually had my doubts. But now everything is proven, can we all forget that the Cossie boyz even existed
The Cossie did die with the dinosaurs Harj.......
PS. Still half asleep, on Swiss time.
[This message has been edited by harj (edited 27-04-2000).]
27 April 2000, 08:43 AM
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S de B
Sorry - my fault
I could come up with various excuses, like - standard geometry settings & *rap half-worn OEM Potenzas, BUT at the end of the day, I was having a bit too much fun flipping from u/s to o/s & powersliding & the like. Also (as from a previous thread ) powering through the understeer to continue the change of dirrection
The course was a basic figure of 8 & the idea was just a b*lls out 5 laps. There was gallons of surface water & I felt the car aquaplane a few times. It was, for me, quite hard to keep the front end from tucking in & u/steering in order to get some decent lines - hence why I decided to try & powerslide the whole course
I drove the Cat 3 cossie for a couple of circuits & it felt altogther better at turning into the corners. In fact it was a very well sorted car & gave good feedback & confidence I also hate to say it, but the mag's 2.0 Mondeo was better at turning in than the scoob, though at a lesser speed & a frightening amount of body roll!
It was a complete gas tho' & I'm off to Elite this am for a set of SO2's & the "Prodrive" settings
Sorry - my fault
I could come up with various excuses, like - standard geometry settings & *rap half-worn OEM Potenzas, BUT at the end of the day, I was having a bit too much fun flipping from u/s to o/s & powersliding & the like. Also (as from a previous thread
) powering through the understeer to continue the change of dirrection The course was a basic figure of 8 & the idea was just a b*lls out 5 laps. There was gallons of surface water & I felt the car aquaplane a few times. It was, for me, quite hard to keep the front end from tucking in & u/steering in order to get some decent lines - hence why I decided to try & powerslide the whole course
I drove the Cat 3 cossie for a couple of circuits & it felt altogther better at turning into the corners. In fact it was a very well sorted car & gave good feedback & confidence
I also hate to say it, but the mag's 2.0 Mondeo was better at turning in than the scoob, though at a lesser speed & a frightening amount of body roll!It was a complete gas tho'
& I'm off to Elite this am for a set of SO2's & the "Prodrive" settings
27 April 2000, 08:58 AM
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Maybe next time I'll let Stef do the testing so we can get some decent figures out of mine eh?!!
Well chuffed with the results except the dyno run. Would've thought it would have more power than that. Will get the geometry done for the next one. Don't want Stef to get to close!
Great day all round, shame about the Cossies. They all seemed a good bunch - would've loved to have seen Francis's go.
And I'll take my hat off to Mike R. It's not as slow as I thought! Where was my ride Mike?
Well chuffed with the results except the dyno run. Would've thought it would have more power than that. Will get the geometry done for the next one. Don't want Stef to get to close!
Great day all round, shame about the Cossies. They all seemed a good bunch - would've loved to have seen Francis's go.
And I'll take my hat off to Mike R. It's not as slow as I thought! Where was my ride Mike?
27 April 2000, 09:06 AM
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Craig
I had a ride in Rainbird's - that thing is a beast & a complete giggle machine. So much power
When you do get a ride & you reach for the passenger grab handle, you notice that is rather loose - I wonder why?
I had a ride in Rainbird's - that thing is a beast & a complete giggle machine. So much power
When you do get a ride & you reach for the passenger grab handle, you notice that is rather loose - I wonder why?
27 April 2000, 05:29 PM
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Nice one boys
I honestly expected 2-2
Stef 0-60 4.5 in a UK car
I sure prodrive wouldnt mind looking at that car. (P1 0-60 4.66 )
"Stef the P1 Killer"
To Craig, Stef and James well done guys great performances.
cheers
chrisp
[This message has been edited by chrisp (edited 27-04-2000).]
I honestly expected 2-2
Stef 0-60 4.5 in a UK car
I sure prodrive wouldnt mind looking at that car. (P1 0-60 4.66
) "Stef the P1 Killer"
To Craig, Stef and James well done guys great performances
. cheers
chrisp
[This message has been edited by chrisp (edited 27-04-2000).]
27 April 2000, 06:24 PM
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Odd that the Cossie boys don't seem to have come onto out board for comment for a change - maybe they are eating humble pie !
Well done lads.
[This message has been edited by Mark Johnson (edited 27-04-2000).]
Well done lads.
[This message has been edited by Mark Johnson (edited 27-04-2000).]
27 April 2000, 08:38 PM
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Craig.
I think you did just fine yourself mate! (OK, I did give you a few tips! )
And where's the Rainbowman?
They're certainly a lot quieter than normal.
Chrisp.
Which category other than 4 were you expecting the Cossies to win then?
Stef.
I think you did just fine yourself mate! (OK, I did give you a few tips!
)And where's the Rainbowman?
They're certainly a lot quieter than normal.
Chrisp.
Which category other than 4 were you expecting the Cossies to win then?
Stef.