bigJoe

Yea dhb, I think you’re right (re imports), after all we don’t pay small amounts of money to these dealers.

Actually I’m seriously considering taking my car to an independent specialist, next time (provided it won’t affect my warranty).

AWJB

Thanks for outlining it from a dealer point of view,

but

I work for an avionics repair station, so I know all about life on the other side of the counter, customers who want something for nothing and protracted procedures are all part of life’s rich pattern. If you think it’s difficult to deal with Subaru warranties etc, you’ve probably not worked in a company that holds a CAA approval.

So the dealer may have to take a small hit on time, this happens in all virtually all industry’s, and in most cases keeps the customers happy and coming back to spend more cash – the end result is the dealer would actually be up overall with satisfied customers – it’s what you have to do if you want to keep customers these days (even though you might not like it).

Some better procedures (at the sharp end) would easily reduce the time it takes to look up, cost and diagnose a fault. Internal training can improve time to find a fault. Don’t try and tell me you’re all rushed off your feet all the time – I’ve been to many dealers over the years and seen how they operate. Although I understand it’s difficult once it leaves your hands.

Unfortunately lost earnings are something you should hassle the importers about (all dealers are in the same boat right?), not penalise customers – after all the only reason you get to work on Subaru’s is because you’re a main dealer (I assume), without this status what would you be doing?

Still thanks for the explanation

I do feel some sympathy for you (all) but not much


All this hassle on top of the PPP (warranty) issue – I think I might get a Jap import next time

Take note IM, SB and dealers the people are speaking :O




[Edited by bigJoe - 7/1/2003 11:23:19 PM]

bigJoe

Hi all

Mod please leave this for a bit as I’m hoping to get it sorted sooner rather than later - thanks

I had my CEL come on the other day (MY02 Belgian import), I took the car to the dealer I use for servicing.

They took it in looked at it said it had a misfire and fixed it (it turned out it had loose connector on a coil pack), they also did a service as it was due.

They told me it would be sorted out under warranty (the engine problem), but when I picked it up (after the W/E) I was charged for an hours labour to fix the problem (not cheap).

This seems a bit fishy to me as faults with the car are covered by warranty (I’ve registered with IM) so I’m not best pleased about being charged for an hour’s work (especially when I’ve has it serviced at the same time).

The reason the guy gave (over the phone) for not doing it under warranty is that this sort of fault is not covered by the warranty, he then started rambling and suggested I speak to him after he spoke to someone else.

Anyone had a similar problem to this before?

I’ll give IM a call to ask them what the score is, it all seems a bit dubious to me.


If I don’t get a satisfactory outcome I’ll drop unsubtle hints to the name of the dealer, although so far I’ve had satisfactory experiences from them.

orbv

The c-clip on my wing mirror came off on my my02 import and as the clip could not be sourced by the dealer the changed the mirror under warranty. The car was just over a years old at the time.

Pro Boy

Its not the 1 hour labour charge for the service as its an import.

bigJoe

Thanks for the replies

No it’s defiantly not the hour labour charge, that was elsewhere :O

I spoke to IM who say that adjustments aren’t covered (as far as he knows)

But

This was a fault diagnosis and repair (it had the CEL on and was pouring fuel down the exhaust FFS) – there is no adjustment in an electrical connection, it’s either made or not.

If I was moaning about the handbrake or something AJUSTABLE then fair enough but I 'aint

bigJoe

I just rang Subaru Benelux, the (helpful) guy agreed that from what I’d told him it was a warranty issue.

Since rung the dealer and they’ve said they’ll put in a cross border claim (yay)

Ok it’s an hours labour, but I think it’s defiantly a bit of a cheek to try and charge a customer for warranty work (even if it’s a “grey area”).

They could have fixed it for free – it was just a connector, or even said “it’s not covered by the warranty but well only charge half an hour” or something in between. I wouldn’t have known any better and thought they were the greatest garage in the world.

But they decided to bill me for warranty work, creating a bad feeling and possibly loosing future custom (I do about 30K a year so that’s a fair few services).

Would they try this on with a UK car?

Be careful out there, don’t let them get away with it

dharbige

I'd change dealers. In fact, I DID change dealers!

There are some dealers who are friendly to Euro-import owners (Lavender Hill springs to mind), and there are others that have their franchises up their ***.
They can actually charge MORE for euro-import warranty work (because Subaru UK, who insist on a large discount, aren't paying for it), but they still try to screw the customer, instead of welcoming them with open arms.

David H.

AWJB

Sorry to hear about your concern on your vehicle bigjoe but glad that the problem has been found & rectified.

Just thought that you & anyone else who has a euro import would be interested to know what the dealers have to do to make a warranty claim on import vehicles. Not everyone is aware of the long-winded procedure that has to be adhered to get a claim paid.

First the vehicle has to be diagnosed by a dealer, diagnosis time is supposed to be incorporated in the warranty operation code (see example below). The part required for the repair has to be looked up by the parts department & a Subaru part number has to be found to be able to process a euro import warranty claim.

Secondly when a part number has been found the dealer has to find an operation code in the Subaru warranty flat labour book, and then a nature code has to be found out of a list of 99 descriptions of complaints, then a casual code has to be found, again out of 99.

Thirdly a short fault description is required.

Lastly when all that information has been gathered, it needs to be entered onto the Prior Warranty Approval part of the warranty system, along with a current job number, full chassis number & current mileage.

This information gathering & putting on the system can take 10 minuets or so by admin & parts department staff. This is then sent up to Subaru UK via computer, this information is then sent by fax to the importer in the country that the car originated from, awaiting their authority. Currently I have a claim that I sent on Friday that still have not had an answer. This happens to be a camshaft position sensor, a relatively small claim but the paperwork & time taken is the same. Warranty claimable time 0.1 hours labour this, includes getting the car into the workshop diagnosing the fault, putting the car back outside letting the customer have the vehicle back as no authority for the repair was given during the day. Either that or keep the vehicle off the road, the fault code cleared in this case. Then keep checking the warranty system to see if an authority has been given. Ring the customer up get the vehicle back in for the repair once repair has been authorised.

All this for a paltry 0.1 hrs labour for (£6)

I wonder how long the dealer took to find the fault & repair the concern. I shall bet that it would not be anywhere near as long as the time allowed by a Euro warranty claim.

Yes they could of charged you 1/2 an hours labour, yes they could of handled it differently, but look at it this way, that hour they spent finding your fault could have been spent carrying out a mechanical repair or service actually earning their bread & butter.

One last thing, as an example I have read on here about engine failures in particular P1, the warranty book time for this repair is 15 hours. The actual time it takes to do the repair properly with all the measuring of the crankshaft is between 25-30 hours, yes as much as 30 hours, this lost labour of approx 15 hours (30 hours less time allowed) would leave a £900 dent in lost earnings in a service departments figures.

Glad I have that of my chest now, I think any dealer personnel would agree that warranty sucks & that what I am saying is true.

All I can ask is that you owner/drivers take 5 seconds to see the vehicles fault from the other side of the dealers counter.


AWJB

Ajax

AWJB:
Well ain’t life a bugger

This has all been caused by IM and the UK motor retail industry not the consumer

For Christ sake why cant they get their act together, after all it is 2003

Poor Service all round!

dharbige

Which parts of this procedure are not required for UK cars?

And how much of this procedure is 'required' by Subaru UK, rather than by the European importers?

If Subaru UK are making dealers do more work for Euro import cars than for UK supplied cars, then IMHO they are breaking the European competition laws.
But it seems that some UK dealers are more worried about upsetting Subaru UK by attempting to sort the problem out, than they are about providing good customer service.

Euro-import owners have the right, under European law, to have warranty work carried out by any franchised Subaru dealer in Europe, and to be treated like any other Subaru owner. This is a responsibility a dealer takes on by being a Subaru franchise. The fact that the UK is seperated from mainland Europe, and that not many mainland Europe-based Subaru customers get their cars fixed here does not absolve UK Subaru dealers of that responsibility.

If it's hassle for a UK dealer to perform warranty work on a Euro-import car - tough!! That hassle should NOT be passed on to the customer.

Ajax

dharbige:
Well said!

AWJB1

Ajax & dharbige

The reason i posted was not to start a who's right & who's wrong argument, it was so that you owners could see what dealers have to do to keep their customers happy. This was a dealer point of view as no-one seems aware of the problems behind sceens.

Coming from a dealer that has customers coming to us from as far as Somerset & Scotland for services we must be doing something right. Customer satisfaction is how we keep our customers & poach customers from other dealers around us, keeping them coming back.

To try & answer your other questions
For normal warranty claims, ie wheel bearings, door motors, rebuilds (gearbox or engine) on PWA is required we can carry out these types of repairs on our own authority. Major unit replacement ie short engines, turbos, gearbox or rear axles do need a PWA. These type or repairs are usually fairly labour intensive so 10 mins extra admin is not the end of the world.
But to have to carry out a PWA for ANY repair major or minor is the way that we have to process all euro warranty claims.

Coming from a dealer that fixed a euro vehicle on the assumption that a repair would be able to be claimed via a euro warranty claim, only to find that Belguim would not pay for that claim as it was under the minimum claim value (refitting a window regulator that had dropped out of the door)where do you think a reasonable "supporting the customer" should stop & your own survival should start.

Yes you are entitled to have warranty work carried out by a UK dealer, yes you should be treated like any other owner, BUT BEWARE the warranty on Euro imports is not the same as the UK cars so ask yourself this, if the item is not covered or able to be claimed by a dealer who should pay the bill? The dealer who is looking after you or the owner who has saved him/her self the money buying the vehicle in the first place?

Bigjoe hope they manage to get a claim for you.

AWJB

bigJoe

AWJB

What’s the difference between the UK and Euro warranties then? I was under the impression they were now the same (now) – i.e. both come from FHI

The example of a claim being rejected sounds odd to me (not having a go ), in my warranty it doesn’t say anything like “the first value of XXX is not covered” or “warranty only applies to claims over a value of XXX”. I find this a bit odd – are you saying that dealers are expected to cover low value claims by the importers?

To the customer the value of the claim is irrelevant – any thing not excluded by the warranty is covered. On your last point YES why should the customer have to pay costs that would otherwise be covered by a warranty (that was purchased in good faith from the Subaru machine).

Looking at some of the other posts here, perhaps it’s time IM did some proper market research to find out what their customers are really thinking (ok I know you might get more gripes than usual here – but you can always lean from your customers).

What do the rest of you lot think?

laurynmay

Just like to put in my two 'penneth having spoken to numerous people including dealers in UK and in Holland / Belgium.

Most importers in Europe buy cars off FHI without warranty and then finance their own (Holland / Belgium / UK included).
Each distributor sets their own terms and conditions.

Some Euro countries put a minimum claim value on, the UK don't.

With regard to dealers getting authorisation UK cars require authority on certain items, Euro cars require authority on everything. This is a rule put in place by the European distributors not IM. Trust the Europeans to create work for everybody.

pugoetru

bearacratic bullplop!!