Sue Sidal

Hello everyone,
My STi7 was rear ended a month or so ago. I asked for the car to be removed to a local Subaru dealer whilst I was whisked off to hospital. The vehicle was actually taken to their "recommended" body shop, details of which I'll keep to myself for the time being. Anyway, I called them yesterday to see how it was going and was told that it was ready and I could collect it later the same day, which I duly did. I was asked to sign off on the job once I had checked the car over and they brought it out for me to examine. Well I could not believe what was presented to me. This car has done 20,000 miles and has been serviced (by the main dealer) every 6 thousand miles. I clean it religiously at least once a week and know every part pf the car intimately. Apart from a few minor stone chips on the bonnet, it was immaculate, inside and out. Well, where shall I start. Let's start with the first thing I noticed, a rusty second hand exhaust back box, no brand new, gleaming STi tailpipe. There was a dent in the rear nearside passenger door and a dent in the front nearside passenger door. There was a scratch on the front bumper, a gouge taken out of the foglight cover, a 4 inch scratch in the front offside wing and 2 scratches in the drivers door. The inside of the boot is a disgrace. There are numerous scratches on the internal paitwork, the back of the rear seat is filthy and looks like it's been used to ferry unboxed spares that have been thrown around in the back, the carpet is crumpled and misaligned, the boot lamp cable was not affixed. The replacement rear bumper is misaligned, proud on one side and recessed on the other, there is a scratch above the bumper on the nearside wing. one of the screwcovers on the rear spoiler is broken and half white. the rear number plate was damaged in the accident and they have put that back on.....I could go on and on, oh and the exhaust is knocking aginst the underside of the car at low revs. Apart from that I'm very pleased with the repair. Obviously I have declined to sign the job off and they want the car back to have another go at it but frankly I'm reluctant to let them near it again. Anyway, this is where I need the advice. I need an independant report on the repair from a respected bodyshop, I will be talking to the AA, but they're more mechanical than anything else (I think). What would you do in my shoes?

devon03

go back to insurers if they recommended bodyshop. The bodyshop will lose all insce co business unless u r satissfied,

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Jeez, what a nightmare!

I don't suppose you clocked the mileage prior to repair?

If you can prove that they have been ******* around in your car while they were supposedly repairing it, they will most definitely lose your insurer's future repairs.

Have the insurers paid the bodyshop? And did you have to pay an excess to get your car back or was liability sorted before you collected?

It works like this.....

You are your insurers customer.

The insurers are the bodyshops customer.

You should deal directly with your insurers and tell them straight that you demand the items listed above rectified by a repairer of your choice.
It is up to the insurers to take it up with the bodyshop, but unless the vehicle was inspected by your insurer's assessor prior to commencement of repairs, and he can speak to the car being minted (other than the crash damage) then they may have a case, but its not really your fight.

Unfortunately its a really hard thing to prove and I feel for you.

Its not exactly the same, but a while back I was having an alarm/immobiliser fitted to an old car, and when I collected it, it had 50 odd miles put on it. I went mental, but they denied it, and I couldn't prove it, even though they had stuck about a fivers petrol in it!

Good luck and keep us posted.

Sue Sidal

Thanks for the input guys. I've taken about 35 photo's and had a mate around with his WRX to compare and it's just confirmed what I knew already - it's a crap job. As I said I'm reluctant to let these guys at it again, bearing in mind the ***** up they've made of this. I've got a couple of aces up my sleeve so I'll play it softly softly at this time. I've decided to take it to the main dealer (where I asked for it to be taken to after the RTA) and seek their opinion of the repair. I think this one's got the potential to get a bit tasty so I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.

Silverman

Sound the repair was a total mess. Read the insurance policy thourghly, in it you should find an address to complain to, and complain, big time. Don't have the slightest feeling of guilt about dropping anyone in the .... All us boys and girls pay a lot of cash to the IC's for the privalidge of driving these cars and when it's time for them to pay we should settle for nothing but total satisfaction. I still have an outstanding problem with my "approved repairer" following a claim. The car was returned with damage which was done whilst in there care and various quality control oversights! Keep on the case, it might sound silly but keep a diary of any phone calls or corispondance you have with the garage or IC and alway remember you have WATCHDOG mention that and things should sort pretty quick.

Sue Sidal

Thanks Silverman, that's useful input. Anyone have any other views?

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I think a lot of it is based on how "big" the repairer is, and how much his reputattion means to him.

If it is a national company, then I'd assume that the powers that be would do anything to avoid any dirt on their name and be keen to rectify. However, if it is an independent company, then it is down to the integrity and decency of the person in charge, but either way, keep on top of your insurers and make sure they chase them all the way.

Sue Sidal

Thanks guys, that's useful input. Due to the nature of the incident, I need to get it right in my mind who I need to shout at. I asked for the car to be removed to the Subaru dealer and I intended to deal with them once my head had cleared. That dealer diverted it to the bodyshop in question, they have Subaru and Isuzu on their paperwork and Saab authorisation, so I thought I was in safe hands. I spoke to my insurance company and they started the ball rolling, they were very good at this point, no complaints. (Liverpool Victoria). I went to the bodyshop the following day to discuss it all with the owner. He suggested that because it was a black and white case, total liability rests with the other driver, that I should use a third party claims company. This company would deal with all of the administration and rent me a replacement vehicle. I spoke with them on the phone and it made sense to use them. I didn't have to pay my excess and try to claim it back and I could have a car delivered to me within a couple of hours. I contacted my insurance company, they said it was fine and put the claim on hold. The claims company then took over. Thinking it through logically, my contract is with the third party claims company, who then have a contract with the garage for the repair. So my insurance company are not actually involved in this fiasco. Or is my contract with the Subaru dealer who then chose to divert the vehicle to the bodyshop? The problem that I can foresee is that there is a cosy little relationship between the dealer, the bodyshop and the claims handlers who each benefit from their strategic partnerships. The bodyshop benefits because my insurance company have no say in who effects the repair, so the claims handlers, who have had my business referred to them by the bodyshop, aren't going to then remove the car and take it elsewhere for repair....a nice little earner for both parties. No doubt the Subaru dealer takes a "referral commission" from the bodyshop. Of course, this is never a problem when things go well, but........when things go wrong, I can see that they will close ranks to ptotect their mutual business. So this could be a good one. As I said, I'll take it softly softly for the time being, but I do have media contacts if things get ugly, so watch this space. I will name and shame once I am certain that I have no other alternatives. Thanks again.

Beastie

iTrader: (2)

Get back to your insurer with your complaints. They will send their own independent inspector to look at your car. He will then report back to them.
You will probably find that the bodyshop will take a lot more interest in your comments before the inspector comes.

Frankly, I believe that you will need to give the original bodyshop the car to finish the repair.

I have already been down this route and the final repair was all I expected the first effort to be.

Best of luck

Beastie

Sue Sidal

Thanks beastie - from the various comments I've recieved, this is all too often a problem. Regretfully I'm inclined to agree with you regarding having to get the same people to rectify it. Anyway, I have the AA coming to look at it on Tuesday for an independant inspection report. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for your interest.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Sue, the only thing you have to get the bodyshop to rectify is the bodged rear end repair, ie. the misaligned bumper etc.

As for the damage thats been ADDED, why should they get another chance to rag your car around as if they own it?

What they have done amounts to professional misconduct, and at the very least is extremely irresponsible and dishonest.

Although the car was left in their hands, it was done so with a specific purpose (repairing rear end).

As soon as "someone" removes it from the bodyshop for their own means, abuses it, damages it, and uses it to ferry cr@p around, this amounts to one thing.

THEFT.

Take no $hit

[Edited by talizman - 22/06/2003 16:42:34]

Sue Sidal

That's an interesting viewpoint with some valid points, thanks. I'll keep you posted...

scoobydevil1

i had the same thing with my astra , i got hit in the drivers side no probs swapped details and as i was 160 miles from home my car got taken to peoples ford in portsmouth , i was given a ford ka not bad as i am 6"3, drove it 20 miles and took it back as i could 'nt see the speedo or get the wing mirrors up high enough . was told it was that or nothing that was the first battle and it just got worse i got an escort in the end , picked my car up the first time bloody disgrace , alloys were badly curbed tyres were gashed , there was paint over spray inside the car the door seals were missing and there were *** burns in the seats also had 208 miles on the clock , i compaired the mileage with the form off the recovery company.
complained to royal sun alliance and they sent the car back the peoples ford
4 weeks later and it was ready again even worse the repaired side was a differant shade to the rest of the car and covered in orange peel and dust in the paint also had purple over spray on the other side same colour purple as the rover 200 parked next to it and i had a flat tyre , complained again and demanded it went else where was told people ford had one last chance , i saw my car driving down the sea front at south sea when it was being repaired , so drove to the garage to see how the work was getting on but, o my car was in the oven and i could see it first thing in the morning , i told the insurance company and finaly got my car repaired else where this whole thing lasted 6 months .

like you i kept a diary of every thing , i also bourght a little dication recorder and recorded every conversation phone and in person just tell the other person you are recording the phone call and make sure they know it is being recorded .i ended up in the small claims court as the insurance company just walked away after my car was repaired .

good luck
i am a bit of an expert now on this as i did my own prosecution and won costs and compensation.

Sue Sidal

Scoobydevil - That's dreadful, glad you won in the end, but what a a pain. By way of an update, I have the AA coming to inspect the car at 8.30 this morning, followed at 10.30 by an engineer representing the third party claims company that is managing the repair. It will be interesting to see the two reports side by side.... I'll update later but thanks for your advice.

Sue Sidal

For those that are interested and have taken the time to reply, here's an update. I had the AA out to do a bodywork report(for which I paid £99). The guy came at 9.00 this morning and was there until about 10.15. At about 10.00, the engineer representing the accident claims company turned up, to do his report for them (at my request), so they overlapped by about 15 minutes. Between them they found a total of 44 faults, including one potentially dangerous fault involving the (dodgy) exhaust rubbing against the anti-roll bar and another fault where one of the welds had already peeled away. Anyway, at this point I'm armed with the written report from the AA and discussing my options with the other engineer. He said that it is normal practice to return the car to the repairing bodyshop for rectification. I then took a quite firm line and said that I didn't want them to work on the car. I contacted the claims handlers and had several conversations with them throughout the day. To cut a long story short, the proprietor of the repairing bodyshop turned up at my office late this afternoon and offerred me his car there and then and virtually pleaded with me to allow him a chance to put my car right. He promised that he would work on it personally and that it would be 110% when I got it back and kept apologising profusely. On the understanding that it's fixed to my (and the AA's) satisfaction and that they refund the £99 for the AA report, I have agreed to give them ONE CHANCE to get it right. Failing that it goes elsewhere and they don't get their wonga. Watch this space!!!

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Hope it goes according to plan Sue.

Sounds as if "Mr Big" has $hit himself, hope it works out for you.

KaraK

Hoping that works out for ya Sue Keep us posted...

Sue Sidal

Thanks for the support guys.

Sue Sidal

Double post

[Edited by Sue Sidal - 6/24/2003 9:06:29 PM]

JimmyY

Sorry to hear the trouble you've had with your repair and I hope it gets done to your satisfaction. As several others have said, make a log of every bit of communication.. time, date, names etc and copies of any letters.

I battled with Ford over a new car that they tried to repair and after months of wrangling ended up rejecting the vehicle cos their own bodyshop was absolutely crap. I think if you were to stand any chance of taking it further (e.g. small calims court) you'd need to give the original bodyshop a chance to put right their mistakes. It shows you've given them ample oportunity to make amends.

My girlfriend has had similar problems with Toyota after a recent accident... it wend back to their bodyshop 3 times and has required two additional visits to the dealer to get other problems sorted!!

I guess this goes to show that this is quite a common problem!? Is it because the bodyshop is just interested in churning out cars and claiming large amounts from the insurance companies?

Jim

Sue Sidal

Jim - Thanks for your coments. It seems amazing how many people have had problems of this nature. Could it be that because the bodyshop knows that it will always get a second chance, because "that's the way it works", they are complacent about first time fixes? Anyway, they took it away yesterday PM. I've told them there is no rush and I want the job done properly. They've told me that it will come back "looking 110%". The facts are simple. If when I go to pick it up, I can tell that it's been in an accident, or any of the damage caused to it whilst in their possession is not put right, I won't sign the job off and it will go elsewhere for rectification. In fairness, the claims handling company and the independent engineer appointed by them have said the same thing, so I do have their support. Oh and I had nothing better to do than deal with this all day yesterday. I'll keep you posted.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

The unfortunate thing about this is, that since most panels were damaged, the car will be getting practically a full re-spray, which you don't want.

When a car is painted at factory, it is built up over numerous layers of anti-rust zinc coating, primers, paint (6-10 layers) lacquer etc etc.

A body shop won't be able to re-create this factory finish, they will simply primer, paint (3 coats?) and lacquer.

This is how repaired panels can be detected by means of a "paint depth gauge". By the sounds of it, nearly no panel on your almost new car will be "virgin" anymore.

Swines.

The Zohan

Sue
Had no-end of problems with insurance approved bodyshops, like most business decisions an approved bodyshop usually means they will work for the lowest price/cost to save the insurance company money. The decision is not necessariy made on quality.

I have used a particular bodyshop for the last 15 years who do good work, never had a problem. I have had to use two approved bodyshops who did sub standard work and involved a lot of time and effort to get put right.

A bit late maybe but you do not have to use and approved one it just usually involves more hastle for the owner as the insurancxe companioes are not geared up to work this way. They should be and they should treat their customers better than they do.

Whatever you do do not accept or sign for the car until you are copmpletly happy with the work.
Take names of people you speak to and follow up in writing.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

This makes me glad that my mate owns a body shop/panel beaters and is $hit hot at what he does!

Sue if you want the car done properly, run up to Glasgow with it!

SJ_Skyline

Sue,

I can't believe the nightmare you have had! The great thing about my local dealer is they don't let anybody drive the turbos until they have been with the company for quite some time. I think many garages could take note of this example!

Please let us know how you get on!

SJ

Sue Sidal

talizman - Good point, well made. Something else to hit them with methinks! Paul, thanks for your observations, I suppose I should be grateful that I'm new to all this really.....
I like your comment about yer buddy In Glasgie, talizman. Ask him to franchise me a depot in Bristol, could make a farking fortune.

Sue Sidal

SJ - Soudds a sensible policy. I'll let you know the next chapter when it's ready for publishing.... Harry Potter and the tosspots in the bodyshop.

scoobydevil1

hi ya sue hope all goes well for you .
if you need a closer body shop than glasgow i can highly recommend a body shop in birmingham . only a 2hr drive and i will take you out on the pi$$.

[Edited by scoobydevil1 - 6/26/2003 9:14:39 PM]