david

Just thought I'd start this thread up again.

Has anyone any further findings on this?

Dave

Adam M

I also want this one to stay alive.

I am getting more and more convinced (if that is the word) by what I hear and think the money could be worthwhile.

Are there any money back if unsatisfied guarantees that anyone knows about?

[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 13-03-2000).]

Ian Cook

Doc

Has anyone actually had one fitted to a scooby for any appreciable length of time?

What are your experiences?

How did you get it into the tank?

rb

Doc
2 years and 42,000 miles MY 97 Subaru Turbo
6 months RB5 Prodrive (unfortunately 40 mile an hour shunt into the back of my RB5 on the motorway has ended its usefull life for me, currently insurance claim for diminution of value means i have had to sell the car to prove a £10,000 loss on market value.
Prodrive recommend the use of super i if the performance pack is fitted i used 95 octane.
rb

rb

Money back guarantee if not satisfied
Its in writing.
rb

Stupot

did u suffer any loss in performance on the regular unleaded??
Stu

rb

None that i or the dealer could detect.
rb

Stupot

Right, how many do I need and how do I get em in the tank?
Stu

david

Guys,

Not to try and get this off topic, but the real emphasis (IMHO) has to be placed on the value of the Broquet in an STi V or similar with known problems, not a Uk spec car (albeit with a prodrive remap).

rb, I'm also interested in the fitting instructions.

Cheers

dave

Adam M

David,

The real interest is to anyone who doesn't want to pay continuous inflated prices for 97 octane. And also those who want to reap the benefits of higher power, with no detonation.

david

Adam,

I agree, but where is the proof?

Dave

Paul.G

If it was fitted what would be the best way of checking to see how your engine is running . Rolling Road,Emissions test ?
You could go back to 97 octane if it proved duff.
As said before it could be worth checking out

Paul.G

david

Just read the Broquet web site...

'Every Broquet unit is supplied with a full money back guarantee together with a no-engine-damage warranty underwritten in the sum of ,one million pounds'

....interesting...but could you claim detonation damage (should it happen) in a Jap spec car?

rb, can you answer this?

Stupot

Also, you may get your money back as a direct result of the Broquet unit damaging your engine which of course it wouldnt, but what happens if you try to claim on detonation damage. Could they say that it was an existing problem? Does anyone see what Im getting at? or is my question worded pants?
Stu

Doc

Nobody wants to tell us how to get it into the tank!

Broquet suggest taking out the sender or removing the filler. Which is easiest on a scooby?

david

Doc,

Someone mentioned that the in-tank items can be 'dropped' into the tank via the two access panels in the boot, one in each side.

I think the access panels are round, but I have no idea what is under the metal plates?

Dave

david

I've sent the following email to David Lock,

Dear Mr Lock,

After reading through your web site and participating in various discussions on the following web site (in the general section)

bbs.scoobynet.co.uk

I thought I would take this opportunity to request some help on the perceived application of the Broquet product.

The above web site is aimed at enthusiasts who own Subaru Impreza Turbo's, both UK and Japanese specification.

Japanese Spec Subaru Impreza Turbo's are designed to run on 100RON fuel, and as a direct result of this, there are some reported instances where detonation (pinking) has caused engine failure to these cars while running on 97RON and 95RON fuel.

Various members of the above web site are considering the use of 2, 8 cone Broquet in-tank items, to aid in combustion of iether 95 or 97RON fuel and hence, reduce (if not eliminate) detonation.

Our main points of discussion concern the ability of the Broquet product to permit safe running on 95 or 97RON fuel, some people are interested purely for reducung emmissions (an obvious benifit of the Broquet) or improved fuel consumption.

I think the most arguable point of contention is whether or not the Broquet product (if used correctly in a Japanese spec Subaru Impreza Turbo) will stop detonation when using 95 or 97RON fuel in a car that is designed to run on 100RON.

Myself and other members of the Subaru Impreza Drivers Club (SIDC) would be very grateful if you could provide any answers to the above questions.

Many Thanks for any help,

David Barthorpe

rb

Under the two metal plates are two more matal plates that allow access into the tank
I fitted mine to the RB5 IN 15 MINUTES!
Phone Freephone 0800 0749798 for the details
rb

GavinP

How about arranging a demo at the next dyno day ?

The car could be put on the rolling road, checked for air/fuel ratio, install the cones and repeat.

If it does do what it claims, there would probably be thirty sales on the spot....

Just an idea !

Thanks

Gavin

Mr Leigh

From my own experience I would not bother. They showed no gains of any kind in an M3 BMW. Get Subaru/IM to tell us if/why they used them. Common sense says all manufactures would be using them by now and it would not be such a shady product. I hear the same crap sales pitch every year at the NEC with no come back to any questions offered.

david

here is the reply from the man himself....

Hi David Barthorpe,

Thank you for your message. I have been following the Broquet debate on the
Scooby site with much interest although I have kept out of the direct debate
as I am sure your fellow Scoobarians don't want us Broquet people to be too
pushy. It is refreshing though to read sensible constructive comments on a
friendly board for a change :-))

I am not an Impreza specialist - my fellow distributor Peter Wright is
though.

In broad terms my comments are as follows:

There is no doubt whatsoever that the result of adding Broquet to a fuel
system substantially improves the combustion process. Witness lower CO and
HC emissions for petrol engines; lab tests have shown these to be reduced by
30 - 50%.

One benefit of this improved combustion is that an engine will accept a
slightly lower octane fuel than it would otherwise require. How much lower
is simply imposible to establish as so many factors are involved.

Another result is a reduction in overall engine running temperature as a
smoother combustion means less wasted heat from competing explosions within
the combustion zone. This, incidentally, is why older "leaded-only" engines
can run safely on unleaded - avoiding excess heat, and possible valve seat
recession, caused by prolonged use of unleaded.

However in the UK our experience is that an engine running on 97 RON (the
old
4-Star, say) or 98 (the old supergreen) will run certainly as well, without
performance loss, and
probably slightly better on 95 RON (unleaded), after Broquet is installed,
than it did on 97/98 RON without Broquet. This without the need for timing
retardation. Dropping from 100 RON to 95 is a bigger step but our (Peter
Wright's) experience with Japanese Spec Imprezas is that Broquet has allowed
them to do just this without problems.

I would like to say more about this in a very positive sense but there are
some commercial confidentialities concerning Subaru themselves which I must
respect.

In short the answer is: "Yes Broquet will certainly reduce detonation
substantially but may not totally eliminate it in all situations".

My personal view but which I cannot support with documentary evidence is
that use of Broquet will go a very long way in eliminating piston crown
failure because the combustion process is much smoother and stress in the
combustion zone is greatly reduced. The evidence on the road so far supports
this theory.

Getting away from Imprezas just for a moment. Over the years we have
supplied Broquet to race engines both on the track and on the water. Feed
back is
that engines using Broquet treated fuel just seem to be able to get a few
more rpm in conditions that would have previously meant a blown engine;
again not scientific evidence but I think it is relevant to the overall
debate. Much more "grunt" said one racing motor cycler - but I still don't
like to admit I don't know what "grunt" is. Help.

I hope this helps. Happy Scoobing.

Anyone who wants a chat just phone at any civilised hour.

Best regards, David Lock
broquet@dial.pipex.com

rb

David
I have sent you an e-mail
rb

Stupot

david, in answer to Why have Subary UK/IM put the silencers on Broquet revealing any details of how and why they use Broquet?
question, it could be that subaru do not want to publicise the need to use them for incriminating reasons.

Stu

DavidLewis

Has anyone actually contacted Subaru Uk/IM and asked that burning question? If so, did they deny it, or simply refuse to comment?

Bob Rawle

I am going to give this a try, I estimate that it will take me about three/four weeks to suss out what benefits I can get. Once I have some info then I will post to the list with findings.

Plan is ... using 97 ron fuel (Esso)to start.

1. Return ecu to my 98 ron setup.

2. If this is good then see how much further I can push the ecu settings before sufferig det.

3. Reset to 98 ron settings and then run on 95 ron like this.

4. If this is good then repeat 2 above.

I always use booster for track days and this always helps the engine to run much more smoothly, I will be looking for a similar "feel" to things as well.

Hopefully this will help provide some more specific information on the benefits. I will be able to get some before and after power and torque figures from this as well. (for both fuel types)

Bob

(repeated in the other thread)

Adam M

Fitted both units sat morn.

Ran on normal unleaded, have to say noticed no power loss from super unleaded. Thought it might be a placebo effect.

Drove to Santa Pod with some other guys pat, Danny Fisher and met some more Mike Rainbird, Nightmare and someone whose name I didn't catch who posted a respectable 13.7 quarter from a relatively standard english car.

On the country lanes we were really booting it. I had suspected coil pack problems, so went for further high load drives with Pat to check on this. The moral of the story is that I didnt take it any easier than normal but have returned a fuel consumption that is over 10% up on the normal maximum range and I still have almost an eighth of a tank.

Adam M

Just to clarify, range has gone up by 10% of total range before finishing the tank. No noticable performance difference.

Early days yet obviously but time will tell.

Can't find another reason for the improvement, but if tere are any suggestions please post.

richards

Stef,

I'd watch what you say at this time of the night!

Rich

rsquire

The truth is out there..

But what the hell is it??

Is this stuff for real or snake oil?

Richard