RichiB

I reckon BMW eventualy worked out "You can't polish a turd"!!!!!!!!!!!

Rich

Kev

The wife was caught by a market research bod on the drive at home this week as she was about to get into the scoob .... asked all sorts .. ever owned a Ford, GM, german ... oh and why choose a Jap car .... " because my husband loves Impreza's " and at the end he gave her a box of choccies ..... only to be told right at the end that they were from Rover ..... oh dear !

AlexM

It is very sad that BMW have failed to make a success of Rover. I can't understand why they have such a poor image.

The product is good and is competitive with Ford and Vauxhall products etc. I think the 75 is a very good looking car - a bit too retro for my tastes, but certainly much more handsome than the terrible Jag S-type botch up.

Rover deserve sucess, but the concept of 'buying british' is an anacronism these days, and the public seem to have lost interest altogether.

British Motor industry RIP.

Cheers,

Alex

P.S. I know it isn't really British anymore, but at least they are still designed and built in the UK. There will be a substancial negative impact on the UK component supplier base too if Rover closes.

Beef

Best thing would be if BMW sell Rover to Chrysler. BMW are effectively competeing against themselves with Rover, but Chrysler are looking for an entry into the small car market. Plus, they'd probably look after Rover.

Nightmare

good point Beef......

I think its a shame in a way that people dont buy British, but then if we make something sub-standard why should we buy it? I think the new, more sporty, Rover 75 (the one which looks like a gangsters car) might help the image a little - just depends on how long BMW will hold out before dumping them as a bad job.

but what about the new, very eagerly awaited Mini?

johnfelstead

this is very sad news, i think a lot of us saw this coming the day BMW bought rover. I have had the pleasure of dealing with some of the top guys in the powertrain division, which makes some faboulous engines.

I think the thing that is very sad and will cause problems for the majority of rover group is that the signs are that land rover and the mini brand will be kept by BMW, they have no direct competitor and both are profitable, the rest of the group will be sold off, making it a far less viable proposition.

It seems that one of the reasons that BMW want to pull out is that the planned investment of £500,000,000 in new plant, funded by UK government is to be bloked in the European Competition Dept and this action has made it the final straw for the BMW board.

Members of my family drive rover cars, but they are the ones that have no real interest in cars other than getting from A-B. They are a very good product now, the problem is the image, BMW have done nothing to help it. Launching a car like the 75, retro style does nothing but reinforce the image of the old days, people dont want that, people want modern, fast pace, fast reacting image, that is what life is about now. The 75 is obviously a very good car but it shouts old man in flat cap to me. Very sad.

Markus

Before I got the mondeo I was looking into a Rover 620ti, 2 litre turbo, pretty quick. I mentioned this to my brother but his first reaction was 'what! old geezers car mate, I'll get you some slippers and a pipe for your birthday!'

He did not want to know about the performance, he just laughed. This is the image that Rover is trying to get rid of, but I don't think it ever will. It's etched into our brains that Rover makes 'old mans' cars. The 75 is nice but everyone still says 'well it's a rover, it's an old mans car'

No company man I know would swap his BMW for a Rover 75, and I don't think vectra/mondeo man would either.

DavidRB

A mate of mine is a contractor at Rover. He says that the top management (i.e. stuffed shirts) still thinks that Rover are viewed as a BMW/Jaguar alternative, when the reality is that they are now below Ford & Vauxhall in the public eye.

The 75 is dressed up as a Jaguar S-Type rival when it should have been aimed squarely at the Vectra & Mondeo.

Other successes? The Mini Metro that died out long before the Mini it was supposed to replace. The Maestro? The 25 that was to be a Mini replacement until the management once again realised that the Mini couldn't be killed off and forced it to compete against the Fiesta. Ask anyone in the 2nd hand motor trade and they'll tell you that the only decent Rovers were the ones with Honda engines. The depreciation on the others is frightening...

I'll be sad to see them go, but the motor industry is consolidating now and there is no place for small volume manufacturers, only big conglomerates & niche players.

Ford has done wonders for Aston Martin & Jaguar, but Rover is too much of a competitor for them. Chrysler sounds interesting, as the Neon is their smallest car, so getting the 25 & 45 would be useful.

Shame about the Mini though, I bet BMW will price the new one out of the range of its target audience, sit out a couple of years of slow sales and then say "look, nobody wants one any more" and kill it off...

AlexM

Beef made a good point -

I think Rover are handicaped in terms of the freedom to develop interest from younger buyers as this would put them in direct competition with BMW.

Hence BMW's lack of interest in developing/expanding the MG range, and the lack of motorsport participation, as this is perceived as being BMW's perogative.

The 75 is targeted at more 'mature' owners, but it is a quality product, and is infinitely more interesting than the Vectra/Mondeo that it is priced against. I know where my money would go if I were given the choice of the three...

Rover marketing has been not terribly good in recent history (an understatement...). It is a great shame, as their cars no longer need excuses made for them as they did in the past.

Cheers,

Alex

Mike Rainbird

Apparantly, BMW will be keeping all the good bits (Mini, MG and Land Rover) and just dumping Rover, the loss making part of the group...

PaulL

MG - Good?

Hmmmmm?

Paul L
(from experience)

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Oh dear, things are looking a tad wobbly for Rover and MG...

Richard Gledhill

Agree largely with the above. Used to own a Rover 214SEi, great fun and the K-series engine's a gem - faster and more fun than most other manufacturers' 1.6 engines. Scared a fair few Vectras The car range nowadays is pretty good - the 45's a bit behind the times, but test drove a 25 (for my parents) a couple of days back, and was really impressed - quality interior, no creaks/moans/rattles, and surprisingly sporty handling. Much better than the previous generation 200 IMHO. 75's a classy car, but should definitely be pitched against the boring Veruca/Mundaneo brigade. Look how many awards it's won abroad - Best Import Car (Japan), Most Beautiful Executive Car In The World (Italy), etc etc.

Why oh why are we British so keen to put our own companies down? We always support the underdog, we always think foreign cars are going to be better/more reliable/etc. It's been the same with BT (10 years ago they were the most hated company in the UK, and why? Better service than cable companies, prices coming down, etc etc), Rover, England football team (to some extent!) etc. Why can't we support our own companies? Every other country in the world does.

I'm not advocating buying rubbish just because it's from a British company, but when the product is right, why are we so keen to put British companies down?

Of course, having said this, it's ironic I swapped my 214 for a Scoob, but if any British company made anything like it (for the £15k I paid new from Holland ) then I'd have bought that in preference.

Rant over...

JayDee

My wife bought a 214 a couple of years ago. a nice enough car which we still use. What really cheesed me off was the way I was treated when the car was serviced. There were a lot of faults which I considered should be warranty and the garage was not interested. Example - a fuse went. The manual was so misleading I could not find the fuse. Garage charged a cool £35 - warranty? - no sir, its electrical. Basically the warranty wasn't worth a limp **** and the garage staff couldn't have care d less.

I feel the red mist descending every time I go there.

This is one reason my car is now an Impreza (JD Power survey and all that). I was also thinking about maybe a BMW or a Merc, but after my experiences certainly not a Rover.

JD

Richard Gledhill

Sad that one experience has embittered you. I've had superb service from my local Rover garages (Cambridgeshire) and had excellent reliability from the car. Car dealers often do themselves a disservice by treating people like that.

Having said that, the worst I've found have been BMW and Merc dealers, who I've found arrogant and derisory.

Richard

MarkCSC

Rover's current marketing is pants. The new 25 GTi is said by EVO to be one of the best hot hatches in the market. Has anybody seen good promotion of it? err no. (except the TV ad with the roulette table. but that doesn't count as I only realised it was the Gti after seeing the bit in EVO)
Rover don't make bad cars anymore but they don't seem to want to tell anybody about them

johnfelstead

that rover 25 add makes me cringe. it shouts at me "BUY A ROVER 25, GO-ON TAKE A GAMBLE".

talk about crap add campaign.

RussP

I think BMW are a bit sore that they managed to "steal" Rover for a (relatively) paltry £800m and then found they're losing the same amount again each year. Which no doubt came as a bit of a shock.

I mean you wouldn't bother doing a 5 year business plan if you were spending such a tiny amount of cash would you?

Oh dear, have the mighty BMW finally caught a cold?

And whilst i'm not one to kick a man when he's down... the new 328 is a cr@p car!

DavieR

I think BMW will hang on to Rover for as long as the UK Government will keep handing out money to them.

Every few months BMW warns that jobs are at risk, then the next thing is more cash is passed to them with grants and hand outs.

Clever trick, and with thousands of workers, no-one is going to call their bluff.

I hope they survive, but as a British owned company. We need at least one.

RussP

Don't knock British owned car manufacturers... we lead the world!

I mean the biggest UK car manufacturer is Carbodies (black cabs - damn good they are too ) and if memory serves TVR were second.

Game Over really isn't it!

AllanB

Between myself and 4 work colleagues we got through about 20 alternators in a year between at 220GTi 216GTI and other simlar cars. The terrible service from my Rover dealer had to be experience to be belived. That car cost me 4k in the first year of ownership. Rover had some great ideas but also some seriously flawed products and did thier best to cover up some naught stuff like a design fault on the engine on the 220GTI which was repalced with the 220GSI with a revised engine.

It would take something amazing to get me back into a Rover again.

Blow Dog

With regard to 'never getting rid of a crap image', ill give you one car maker as comparison:

Skoda.

Once crap, now they make quality cars and even compete in various international motorsports, a great way of telling the world 'Hey, look at this, it really is quite cool'. I think VW group would be the best people in the world to help boost the image of Rover. They already have proved its not impossible.
Cem

johnfelstead

IMHO the biggest mistake made was screwing Honda, who had set up a workable colaboration with rover, and flogging it to the germans (who love great britain to death).

But what do i know, i just love cars, dont know s**t about inter-country politics or finance

johnfelstead

oh, and another thought, how long do you think it will take tiff and his cronies to realise BMW is going to be a dirty word in the UK and stop wanting to **** the next BMW offering.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Sad realities (flame suit out and ready)...

...If Rover had given each and all of it's staff a £30,000 bonus to stay at home last year they would have lost less money...

...The Rover 75, whilst apparently a superb car in it's class has no obvious market sector - was scarred at birth by a delay due to headline quality control - and due to currency fluctuations since the business case was done - will MAKE A LOSS for every single car sold.

Simple question - how many of you would invest your pension in this when the only return you will see is a bit of nostalgia.

The time is up, kill if off quick, a death of a thousand cuts is so much more painful then getting on with it.

PF

TonyB

It is sad, the 75 is a lovely car - if you like that sort of thing, but terribly marketed. To give you an idea of the desirability of the 75, we have a director here who cose a fully loaded 75 about a year ago. It cost nearly 30K, and he loved it. He's off to Germany on secondment for 2 years, so the Rover's going.

The lease company put the residual value at....£9,900!

I pity anyone who bought a 75 privately.

RIP

Tony

PaulL

Now official...

BMW sells Rover/MG to Alchemy Partnership for £2billion.

New company to be called the MG Car Company

As expected, BMW keeps Landrover and Mini.

Paul L


[This message has been edited by PaulL (edited 16-03-2000).]

suba

maybe rover, or rather the MG car company should go into rally and do a similar car to a subaru impreza! then we will be swapping the scooby for a rover!

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Paul L, when I checked on teletext earlier I thought that BMW had handed control of Rover over to Alcamy, at a loss of 2 billion! Plus they might be a nasty bunch of Asset strippers

Interestingly BMW are going to shift the Mini line to Cowley, and hand over Longbridge to whoever. Somehow I can't see the 75 line fitting in at Longbridge, along with 25, 45 and MG who are already there...

I had heard from one source (in the city) that Ford of all people were interested!

Thinking about it this might make a little sense...currently in Europe they don't have a model that fits between the Mundano and the S-Type, 75 might fit there, plus they have no mass produced sports car brand, MG then...

I can see it now, no more Focus Gihas, all rebadged as Rovers !!!

Tim

Moz

its a terrible shame for the employees and their families at longbridge but didn`t we all see this coming in the beginning, still you can never trust a boxhead.