Beef

I'm not a Scoobie owner, but I'm hoping you may be able to give me some advice anyway.

On Sun morning (01:40) I was going home via the Dartford one-way system when, as I turned a corner and pressed the accelerator, the car changed down (auto). This is normal. What wasn't normal was that the rear-wheels lost grip virtually instantly. I slid out very wide, and, panicking a bit, I didn't lift off as quickly as I should have. The car came on boost as I was correcting, and made me over-correct massively. The tail snapped around so I was 90 degrees to the direction I wanted (oh how I envy your 4WD at the mo), gripped on some anti-slip surface there, and shot me across the road, onto the pavement, and into a small metal fence. Fortunately, no-one was on that pit of the path at the time, so that's one good point.

My bad luck was the compounded by the fact that a policeman had been sitting in the car park opposite and saw all of it. He came rushing over, and said that he was cautioning me for 'Careless driving'. As he was taking down my details, he mentioned that I could be facing 6 points, a big fine, and a bill for the repair.

I wasn't driving hard, and I have been around that corner more quickly than that without losing grip.

What I am asking is what am I likely to face from the police? Should I start saving for the fine and my huge renewal? It was a true accident, certainly not something I'd do deliberately.

Beef

Bugger. This was meant to be under general. Um, Admins, is there any chance you could move it? Puhleeze!

Diablo

Beef,

How fast were you travelling and what was the limit?

If you can demonstrate you were acting within the law and there was oil/grease/etc on the road then you have a better case.

After all, its your word against that of someone sitting in a car park at the side of the road.

D.

Richard F

I'd second that. Might be a bit late now but if there was diesel on the road you'd have a good case. I believe councils can be prosecuted for leaving known diesel spills cos they're so dangerous.

Thing is, who's a magistrate gonna believe - you or a policeman. I'm not doubting your character (or driving ability) but they could well see it as the professionally trained driver (policeman - yeah right) against the bloke with the car with a big spoiler on it.

You didn't damage your car did you? A friend of mine has spent weeks waiting for body parts for his Supra...

Danny Fisher

Beef, the dartford one-way system is well known for being very slippery when pushing. Watching some of the little boy racers (are you one of them!!!) go round the circuit trying to impress the girlies can be quite amusing....

Dan

Adam M

I believe he has no case. It is your word against his and even if you are a convicted killer, your words have the same strength. I would contest it if it goes to court and explain to the judge exactly what you have told us. Automatics are known for this, especially combined with turbos.

Although the magistate is supposed to consider you equally, being older than 30 with a clean driving record would probably stand you in a could position.

Good luck.

DavidRB

Keep a record of the damage done to the car when you hit the fence & an idea of how far the fence was from the edge of the road. Might help prove that you weren't travelling at excessive speed.

Beef

I was doing about 20 (the limit is 30.). I wasn't pushing it, and as it was a cold night, there MAY have been some frost on the road at the corner.

I was very lucky in that the fence was weaker than my bumper, and there was just a bit of scuffing and a small crack.

I have enclosed a link showing the piccy's of what I clobbered and where.

I'm only 20, which probably won't help, but I do have a (currently) clean license.

DavidRB

Don't know much about this sort of thing, but I would suggest getting in touch with the owner of the fence (presumably the council) and letting them know that you fully intend to pay for the damage, even if it's through an insurance claim. That might help if it goes to court and you're trying to prove that you are, in fact, a decent, responsible member of society who cares about such things. I believe large slices of humble pie always impress magistrates.

The police may (understandably) take the line that because you skidded off the road, you were going too fast, but at least you stand a chance of proving that you weren't speeding based on the distance that you skidded.

Personally, I would get some legal advice on this (if it gets that far) as you have a good chance of avoiding prosecution. Do, however, remember that you did go across the pavement and that is verrry bad in the eyes of the law (think children in prams), so try and avoid drawing attention to the turbocharger or to anything that implies that the car (Supra ?) is difficult to drive!

Good luck, keep us posted.

AlexM

Hi Beef,

A general tip - whatever you do, don't admit to anything! This includes admitting liability for damage to fences etc. If you receive a notice of intention to prosecute, ask to see the witnesses' evidence. You then need to reply in writing to the Police that you strongly contest their evidence, and that you will not accept a caution, or fixed penalty notice (if this has been offered as an alternative). The chances are that the CPS will not bring the case to court if the evidence is less than compelling. Unless photographic evidence and measurements were taken at the scene, then the eye witnesses evidence must stand alone without corroboration

Before I'm accused of offering unethical advice, I should point out that I believe Beef's account of the incident and that he is under no legal or moral obligation to incriminate himself.

The Police are busy, and if you make it clear to them that you won't willingly admit to the charge then the burden of proof is on them, they (or the CPS) will often drop charges. The Police too often rely on the accused admitting to an offence under pressure when there is clearly insufficient evidence for them to gain a conviction.

If you are convicted then offers to pay the Council damages etc will not be a mitigating factor, or any proof of previous 'good character'. You are more likely to unwittingly incriminate yourself. Above all, retain a good solicitor with experience in this field - they really can make a difference.

Good Luck.

Alex

Beef

Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it.

I didn't realise it was relevant, but there is a bit more, and it probably isn't good.

Immediately afterwards, the policeman went through everything that had happened. I was still a bit shaken, so I said quite a bit. I mentioned that I hadn't had the car long, and was still getting used to it.

I also (cringe) mentioned that it was the coming on boost that screwed me up. He had a look at my license, and did a PNC on the car. He seemed quite sympathetic and helpful, but was (understandably) unwilling to say what was likely to happen.

I mentioned nothing about fixing the fence, and I did say that it had never happened to me before (sliding that is). Looking at what you say, I probably said too much, and may have landed myself in it. There was also a camera on top of the building next to the park which may or may not have seen what happened.

He wrote down all of what I said, and when he asked me what I thought caused it, I said 'Bad luck, and inexperience with the car' Gulp! Someone hand me a gun, I need to shoot my foot.

I signed his note-book, confirming that I'd said what he'd written, and that he'd pass it up to his superiors.

Oh well.

P.S. David, it is a Supra.

KRIS

hello mate....remember me.....sideways and roundabout mean anything ??? !!!!

Dont panic. It is not over until the fat lady sings.

Firstly, I dont think you have shot yourself in the foot. Inexperiance on your part is an outer.
Secondly, Its never happened before is also an outer.
Thirdly, just because you lost control doesnt mean you were driving without due care. You could have been driving with all the care in the world and BAM the rear wheels lose traction..........Ask yourself, Have you been taught how to correct a skid? no is the answer.
Fourthly, you cant be prosecuted for a simple ACCIDENT regardless of who was watching.
Fithly, you have 6 months to wait for your summons to court. If it doesnt arrive you are off the hook
Sixly, Yes it may come down to your word against the word of a trained driver policeman...BUT what you have said should introduce an element of doubt ( and thats whats needed to get you off) to the magistrate. Mr copper may have been trained BUT have you....Get the picture.

Lastly, did he check the road surface ? Did he look at your tyres ? Did he check your brakes ? I think you are on solid ground my man... If the summons ever arrives let me know.

K

boomer

Beef,

i guess that you will just have to wait for the NIP (if it arrives). Sadly, as the Police officer warned you what may now happen, i don't think that the "it must arrive within 14 days" rule applies.

Keep your fingers crossed that he (and/or his superiors) decides it is not worth chasing up - especially if you had a clean licence and no other records etc.

If they do take it further, be aware that "Careless or inconsiderate driving" can carry a level-4 fine (sadly, i don't actually know how much money this means), discretionary disqualification and an obligatory 3 to 9 points on your licence!!



mb

boomer

FWIW,

i got the above information about careless driving from a book called "The Traffic Officer's Companion", which is an excellent "idiots guide" to all kinds of traffic law, rules and regulations. It is published by the Police Review Publishing Co, ISBN 0-85164-083-4, although it took me about ten months from ordering for it to arrive.

Its well worth reading!

mb

Beef

Hi Kris. I think that memory is indelibly burned into my brain...as the most fun I've had with me clothes on .

He didn't seem to look at the road, but he did have a peek a my tyres (nice thick tread all round - F1's and P6000's), but it was dark, so he prob saw no point doing anything else.

As I've said, thanks to all of you for giving me your advice, I really appreciate it. It's certainly cleared up a few things for me. I have decided that the dosh I was going to spend on mods would be rather better spent on some damn training.

I did ask the officer about it, but he wasn't sure if Kent police did training. I shall trawl the past threads cos I know this has been talked about before.

Cheers, and I owe you all a beer when I meet you.

Beef

Coo, cheers Boomer.

Tony Ashton

I shouldnt worry about it, the chances of you being prosecuted are next to nil. The worst thing that could happen is that you be offered a place on the driver improvement scheme if they run it down there. The worst thing that you can do is publish your plight on the BB it is like the society of barack room lawyers. Oh and by the way you CAN be prosecuted following an 'accident' contrary to your advisors.If you look through previous threads you may find info on N.I.Ps. You will find that following an RTA(accident) service of one is not required. If you have any further doubts go and get your 30 minutes advice with a professional lawyer. Its free so take advantage of it.

Dave P

Tony,

Don't you think it's sad that the first time you are likely to get training is when you may have been involved in a crash or committed an offence.

Which reminds me I must send in my SIDC forms.

Dave

Beef

Hmm. My parents have agreed to pay for me to go on a skid pan, and possibly even help towards the costs of an IAM course. Does anyone have any numbers for a Kent based IAM centre? (I can use Brands for the skid pan, just 5 mins from me)