ThePosh

Oh dear!

I was on my way to work this morning and running a bit late. I was in the outside lane of a stretch of dual carriageway in an industrial estate doing about 30 (the limit was 40) as I approached a roundabout. I followed the cars in front right around the roundabout ahead. As I pulled off the roundabout I was doing about 15, there were about 3 cars in front of me in the outside lane but none in the inside – so I decided to undertake them (accelerating up to about 50). None of the cars moved over and no-one was caused to swerve / panic in anyway.

Next thing I know I am pulled over by a traffic police man about half a mile down the road. I get out of my car and…

“Right, give me your keys. Fast car that. I’ll see you in court” !!!!

Apparently he intends to prosecute me for driving without due care and attention (if his inspector agrees). Fair enough I know I should not have undertaken, but it is hardly uncommon, surely a ticking off would be more in order? What annoys me is that the in law is a policemen and he said it is unlucky but the traffic police are having a push to get as much money in as they can. Nice. I am gutted – I have a clean license and don’t usually undertake anyone.

What do you think I will get for this? Points and a fine?

davyboy

What are they doing you for?

I am certain there is no law for undertaking

RB5320

I am pretty sure that the highway code states you can ONLY overtake on the right. The only circumstance where you can "undertake" is when there are 2 or more lanes of slow-moving traffic and the inside lane happens to be moving quicker. So, yes, sounds like they will try to prosecute for undue care and attention. As you accelerated up to 50 in order to pass them I would expect the prosecution to stick so points and a fine heading your way. I may be wrong though.

Steve

davyboy

Try arguing that they were outside lane hogging and not overtaking anything, and it's them who should be done for driving without due care and attention.

met

whats the worst they can do you for 3pts & 60quid? gutted for you mate but you'll just have to go with it if the do throw the book at you. i got done for a similiar offence, load of pants

scoob_babe

can there not be any arguement to the fact that by pulling over you were not overtaking anything and therefore in the correct lane whereas the others were not overtaking and in the incorrect lane?

Josh L

A friend of my Wife's used to be a WPC in Southampton, and they used to play games with the traffic, seeing how slowly they could go before someone had the courage to overtake them. In those circumstances they couldn't have claimed anyone but themselves was driving without due care.

In this case, surely you could argue that the other cars were driving at an inappropriate speed, and in the wrong lane.

Seems particularly harsh of them though.

Josh

jjones

you blatantly undertake then get stroppy when you get caught.

it is illegal to undertake unless you are in a traffic queue of slow moving traffic. i.e. blatting up to 50 would be considered an aggressive undertake.

craig walker

tell the court he is mistaken and let him prove otherwise!!!

siwrx

undue care is the polices bull**** charge, its to pin on u when they dont have any others.

it can carry a ban as a maximum penalty, for that sort of offence prob 3 points

northernmadbugger

The copper is trying to make a name for himself get yourself a brief it costs but he will ensure that you get off scott free on this shi**y charge - mine did the business 4 me. I was expecting a big time out but got a week and fine which I thought was a good result.

medders

There is no specific offence of undertaking. In many cases IE on the motorway undertaking is dangerous. It's hardly a bull**** charge. Unless you get charged with it of course

mark@wrx

Sorry, no sympathy on this one. In my opinion this is a very bad habit that happens far too often on the roads. I consider it dangerous because people don't usually expect to be undertaken on the left.

davyboy

Mark - you sound like someone who is often in the wrong lane?

Andy McCord

strange that the people who hog the outside lane never get pulled 4 blocking the outside lane!!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Get your highway code out
If your lane was clear of all traffic and the other lane was slow moving traffic then you have a case, look up and see what it says about slow moving traffic in other lanes whilst your lane is free

Tony

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Ah! That's because the party line is to get the traffic moving as slow as poss, then get us all,(Except 2jags) onto public transport.:
Alcazar

lpski1

I cant beleive some of the opinions of people on here, i am sure we have all undertaken some or a few cars at some point. No matter what speed you was doing. !! some people get caught some dont, thats life.

My friend got done doing exactly what you claim you did, unfortunately he got 6points which took him to a ban for 6mths, was done for careless driving, he pleaded guilty, dont mean you say you have to though. didnt get fined though, we was only 18 at time, make an example and all that, was only driving a mk3 escort, not exactly racing about. *rant over*

Dream Weaver

****ty Britain again in my opinion, and yet again people on here saying <mr bean type voice on>"You are not allowed to do that"</mr bean type voice on>.

If the driving standards in this "great" country were better, no-one would have to undertake. It clearly states in the HC that approaching a roundabout and going straight on you should be in the left hand lane. Why do people not do this - i.e. the three cars in front.

If they were driving properly youcould have followed them round the roundabout, then move to the right hand lane to overtake them at 40mph.

From your post it sounds like this copper was in his own car. If thats the case, ask him to prove it - no VASCAR

I hate this country and its laws at times - Undertaking should be legal - it may stop idiots hogginglanes at slow speeds.

DW (who used to do 40k miles a year on the motorways, and saw idiots like this everyday)

skiddus_markus

On most roundabouts if you're going straight on you can use either lane unless there are painted arrows on the road.I'll check highway code site.

BuRR

What's VASCAR got to do with anything? This problem is down to the manner in which the cars were undertaken, there is no mention that the police officer is relating to the speed of the car.

The slower lane arguement only applies when you're in that lane to begin with. A movement from one lane, to a free-moving lane, back to the original one denotes (in my book) an overtake (or undertake however you want to play it) - you freely admit this is the case in your first post.

That's just my 10p worth.

btw... I heard today that one guy from my department has received a NIP for 36mph in a 30! They were in a firm's car at the time, and is paying his fine and receiving the points.

BuRR

owner of a Road Angel, Snooper diffuser and a fast car

mista weava

three options:
1. stay in left lane and crawl along at less than their speed hoping that they will pull in so as you can then pull out to overtake
2. do what they were doing, pull into outside lane and follow, an offence anyway, when not overtaking.
3. get up to the limit in the left lane (ok, admittedly a bit over) and continue as planned, and thus undertake them.

which is the right option?
discuss!

weava

[Edited by mista weava - 11/27/2002 4:18:09 PM]

BuRR

also, there's no set penalty, in fact there may not even be a case to answer. One of those you're gonna have to wait for either a summons to court, or a notice of discontinuance (assuming you were reported!)

The fact there was no fixed penalty ticket issued at the time rules out the chances of a Ł30 fine.

Feel free to email my profile address.

skiddus_markus

Try this page.

http://www.roads.dft.gov.uk/roadsafety/hc/17.shtml#160

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

A agree with Dream Weaver.
I don't condone undertaking and I see some very reckless examples of it. Where people should have the book thrown at them...

However driving standards are poor out there. How many people do you actually see maintaining correct lane discipline, correct distance and generaly having good spacial awareness? Not many.

I often find myself behind cr*p drivers in the outside 'fast lane' who just sit there. What do I do I am patent, I sit behind them and keep my distance. I get a litte bit closer indicate. They still sit there. After 5mins... fc*k this you dangerous tw*t in front of me. I occasionaly undertake them. I do exactly what I shouldn't do.

I wish driving standards were higher and that the cops were not just after our money and that they would pull tailgaters and lane hoggers and send them on a course. But that would cost money wouldn't it and make our roads a safer place....no better carry on driving our mobile taxation units(police cars)collecting that extra bit of road tax from us. Rant Over

So bad luck on getting caught. Hope you get off. Get a brief
Best wishes
Steve

RONAN

Its the tossers hoggin the outside lane that cause the problems, last time i read the rules of the road the outside lane was only for overtaking or turning right where signed. You have my complete sympathies on this, fight this case with pc w****r and tell him to read the rules and he would see that you are perfectly within your rights to pass on left when traffic is moving slower on right.
sorry for ranting but this s***e driving really pisses me off, last week i was stuck behind a c**t for 10 miles in the outside lane at 45/50 mph and no way would she pull over(for those who might think i was sitting on her back bumper,flashing lights and blowing my horn I was not)the dual c/way ended and I passed her (broken white lines/nothing coming against me)she flashed lights at me and waved her fist for no reason, I just ignored the daft b***h.Low and behold five minutes later entering a town there was a lone fuzz standing in the middle of the road and stopped me "its been reported you made a dangerous overtaking manouvre just back the road, pull over to the side please" the phsyco had phoned the fuzz, so i told the cop my story (she was sitting in her car stopped behind me at this stage) about her driving in outside lane for the last 10 miles and he said "hang on there one minute" he went back to her........came back and said "I have just cautioned her for driving in outside lane and for wasting our time,sorry for the inconvenience, carry on"
Yahoooo up yours b**** made my day.

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Posh,

Are you saying that you were going straight over at the roundabout, taking the inside lane & undertook the cars who were in the outside lane or are you saying you took a right hand exit by staying inthe lefthand lane? ...sorry just a bit confused?

DazW

SJ_Skyline

Ok, we know we are not supposed to pass on the left hand side so how does anybody propose to combat this situation that is going to arise in the next couple of years:

The M25 Heathrow stretch is to be widened to 6 lanes each way (12 lanes in total) at present there are 4 lanes each way with the 2 inside lanes hardly used as everybody has a fast car and must drive on the right hand side. With 6 lanes and only the 2 on the right used, I am going to be prosecuted for passing on lane 1 of 6? Driving without due care? my ar$e - 3 empty lanes in between me and the rest of the s0dding motorway!!

[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] Just legalise passing on the left FFS and have done! (as they do in the states)

<flame suit on>

Neil F

Posh.

I did the Essex Police driving course when I first joined the SIDC a couple of years back.
This point was specifically addressed and an old suspicion of mine confirmed by the officer who directed the course (many of you will know his name).
There are 3 scenarios when it is LEGAL to overtake on the inside lane and they are all listed in the highway code:
1. When traffic is queueing to turn right at a junction.
2. In a one way street
3. When traffic on the outside lane/s is moving slower than on the inside lane (so long as you don't exceed the speed limit obviously).
It is quite clealy written in the highway code and the rule is not restricted to any maximum speed.
The officer on the course says that any bobby who tries to book you for such an "offence"is technically chancing his arm and the offence will more likely be one of Driving Without Due Care because the action of overtaking on the inside isn't illegal in itself!! (sound familiar Posh...?)
Where the officer would have more of a case for DWDCAA is when the "offender" actively lane hops to achieve this.
It doesn't sound as though this was the case with you and in my mind you have done NOTHING wrong (so long as the speed limit was 50 on the other side of the roundabout ).
I read on one of the speedtrap websites of a guy who challenged a dangerous driving type charge and the Police were unable to explain sufficiently why it was dangerous. I'll try and dig it out for you.

Last point, I frequently use the inside lane to make progress when other road users, who obviously pay more road tax than me as they appear to have the right to dictate the use of 2/3 lanes at once, refuse to move over.
I execute an "undertake" quite courteously by giving people ample time to move over, by hovering in the inside lane to make the problem obvious and finally by cleanly and swiftly finishing the manouver in a safe manner.
I don't flash my lights as this is confrontational and I almost never get a reaction as by that time it is usually obvious to the driver that he is doing something wrong (or he just doesn't care that he is abusing the road network).
Anyone who says that I am wrong in doing this has a bad habit that they are trying to justify.

Neil.

RONAN

If there was 10 lanes goin the one way there would STILL be assh***s driving in the outside lane. I dont know about lagalising passing on the inside though? what if you moved into outside lane to overtake and on moving back in after overtaking, some lunatic on the inside lane going a lot faster than you blew you away from behind?? who would be wrong? sorry sj i know where your coming from but i dont think it would be very safe.
prosecute the lane hogs I say.