Adam M

because the 106 people are not people I know.

but craig with his plastic rocket is, and cem and ian sutton with their 400/500bhp skylines are.

To me its about the people not what they drive.

and yes the fpa did scare the crap out of me too when it cut me up.

btw. only person whose driving ever upset me regardless of his power on the one track day I managed before the car died was an SIDC instructor.


and yes I am a member to whoever it was who thought I was just having a dig at the sidc.

[Edited by Adam M - 11/1/2002 10:10:20 AM]

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

A very good idea Phil but to be frank mate we could do with trying to resolve this issue (somehow) way before then so as to instigate plans for next year .....tracks are already getting booked up week x week !!!! also the MLR will end up doing their own thing if we don't decide within the next few weeks (it's their AGM this weekend )

Chris

[Edited by Mellow Yellow ! - 11/1/2002 10:23:37 AM]

Danny Fisher

Pete, can some RX7's come along to the SIDC days. We run an organised club, but do noti have enough people to fill a trackday on our own.

What do you say?

Dan

Edited to Add - Pete, if you want please mail me offline with response.

[Edited by Danny Fisher - 11/1/2002 11:33:45 AM]

CraigH

David,

If a Mclaren F1 turned up and didn't drive fast, everyone would say what a puussy he/she was

MarkO

Valid point. Like mine on std cars versus ones with slicks, big brakes, coilovers etc. Seems to have been overlooked

Can I just say from an outsiders point of view. It's possible that this discussion makes it appear that non Subaru owning SIDC members are not as important as those that do........







[Edited by CraigH - 11/1/2002 12:05:10 PM]

Phil

ROTFLMAO at Craig and Mark



[Edited by phil_stephens - 11/1/2002 12:59:51 PM]

dba

John F,

I am a novice,but would happily lend my time to helping to organise track events.


[Edited by dba - 11/1/2002 3:46:41 PM]

DavidLewis

Banshi, Jay.

You guys obviously missed this post of mine earlier on.

or even...



[Edited by DavidLewis - 11/1/2002 4:35:51 PM]

DavidLewis

No.....he just steals them from other people

(well until someones says its a crap idea.....then it was Justin's )

[Edited by DavidLewis - 11/1/2002 4:48:05 PM]

Diesel

Am I the only one that understands where Pete (who now clearly accepts non-Subarue marques on track) is coming from?

His point encompasses avoiding the danger/annoyance that comes from constantly having to move off line and brake when much quicker vehicles than humble 300 bhp Scoobys are always coming up on you. Things like the funny small bike engined things that always made me brake and shift over at Brands with Easytrack once -let alone the other 'Specials' with full pit crew and laptops testing... This is all that he is saying...

SIDC days were ideal for newbies and pretty safe and fun for us intermediates and also the very experienced drivers. The spirit of Pete's logic is that this was a GOOD THING, and let's just keep the spirit of this as we evolve and adapt.

I fail to see why this is so upalatable. If you are THAT hot, go full on racing, where there are fewer rules/annoyances/parenting to protect the less experienced...

D

PS (edit) Chris, it would be great if you reconsidered and set your own agenda for continuing what you clearly have more than started. If you get the brief and the control, I'm sure you would be fab at the role... Go on!

[Edited by Diesel - 11/1/2002 5:56:21 PM]

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

SIDC are a respected organisation, that has never been in doubt.....if you speak with all the trackday organisations I have listed above they would be more than proud to be associated with our club

With regards to "positions" etc..... I have put my idea's/plans/thoughts to the committe and would be more than happy to continue the role if these thoughts are welcomed

Edited to say.....John Felstead can be my right hand bitch...

[Edited by Mellow Yellow ! - 11/1/2002 8:23:45 PM]

Hoppy

Speaking of True Grip in particular...

Lee, get real mate. You're wrong. NO criticism of ANYBODY, just stating the facts. We all have to be objective here and leave our/your/my various political hats at the door. How does True Grip compare with Car/Evo/Top Gear etc, for similar cost of an SIDC sub? Not well. That's not a fair comparison, I agree, but that's what everybody compares it with. What else do most people get for £25? We need to face up to truth here, not ideals.

I've been editing/publishing magazines for almost 30 years. And I'm not the only ScoobyNetter with relevant professional magazine experience. I just KNOW that True Grip and the SIDC membership plus ScoobyNet support is such a potent combination, possibly unrivalled in the world. It could be so, so much better.

We have the opportunity to create something unique here. Imagine Car magazine, or Evo, but all about Imprezas? It would become the Subaru bible. Internationally. Vital reference. In-depth facts. Probing interviews. Authoritative reviews of engines, transmissions, chassis, brakes, styling... the list is endless. And if you scroll through ScoobyNet (and maybe i-club, too) most of the info is right there for the taking. It just needs filtering, repackaging and presented in magazine form.

True Grip is feeble because it doesn't have access to the right content, or the resources to realise the potential - the leading monthly motoring mags have a staff list numbering double figures and several hundred £k to spend per year. We don't need all that, but how the hell can a part-time volunteer editor hope to compete?

True Grip does damn well under the circumstances, but the circumstances are not good. However, they could be much better, if that's where we choose to put our emphasis. That's all I'm saying.

Now then. If you're asking why I'm all talk and no action... I work for a major publishing company with 17 magazines about cars and bikes. I am probably in breech of contract as it is.

Keep the spirit and best regards,

Richard.

[Edited by Hoppy - 11/4/2002 12:29:06 AM]

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

OK, firstly apologies for not responding sooner but I've been away with the family since Monday morning ( mid school term ).

Anyway, here's the story.........

I have been very active within the trackday community over the last 2 years attending numerous UK circuits in varying cars and enjoying both meeting new people, building friendships and valuable contacts as well as learning more and more about how to become a better driver

SIDC, MLR, Easytrack, Bookatrack, Track Action, RMA, Premier Trackdays, EVO Active, Track Attack, Track Zone and Bike to Track are the main organisations I have met and dealt with along with becoming very good personal friends with the owners/organisers of these companies.

It has become very clear and apparent over the last 12 months that the SIDC trackdays have deteriorated, Stef would be the first put put his hands up in stating he hasn't had both the time or inclination this year, coupled with a decline in the die hard track goers and scooby peeps changing car marques have I believe all been a part of the underlying reason.

So, my belief was this.....

I speak with certain trackday companies listed above, namely our friends the MLR and say, Easytrack and we jointly organise a FULL 12 month calender of trackday events for next year , this would do a few things,

Firstly it would guarantee the days to be filled accordingly.

Secondly it would ensure a nice mix of vehicles "to play with".

And most importantly it would allow the SIDC to continue to grow and go forward within the trackday community.

Trackdays are booked like this;

The circuits determine which day we can have, IF we're lucky we may get a weekend but usually at the main circuits most of the weekends are pre-booked by the racing fraternity...fact !

We then sign the forms accordingly stating we are to take up the offer of that day.

A 50% (Non-refundable) deposit is due 4-6 weeks before the day, this can be anything from £4k - £6k.

The balance of 50% is then due 2 weeks bfore the day.

So, I believed that I could help maintain flying the SIDC trackday flag and co-ordinate with the other organisations in putting the above into place.

I stated to all that we (SIDC) cannot stipulate that all cars must be Subaru's, wake up everyone....gone has the day were we could dictate that point....no other organisation does it so why are we different ? It's the hinge of SIDC's continuation !

So, for the last few weeks I have spoken at great length with Darin (MLR) and Marcus of Easytrack and we were all enthused and excited at becoming a joint force within the trackday community.

MLR had already comitted themselves to taking an amount of places for the Bedford day as well as offering SIDC members a special deal for their forthcoming Donnington 18th Nov day ! I could not firm any of this up until the AGM.

With great shock I was told 2 weeks ago that "somehow" we had double booked 2 trackdays (prior to my involvement).....Oulton and Bedford both on the 30th !!!!!!!

I worked hard on offloading Oulton to several organisations and only needed confirmation from the SIDC committe at the AGM to follow this through.....

A further shock was that we had actually paid almost £2800 already to Oulton !!!!!

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

So, the AGM.... It was made clear to me that we (SIDC) would not continue doing trackdays (maybe 1 National day per year) and that joining forces with the MLR or whoever was not a possibility and the best I could do was to negotiate with theses organisations to obtain preferential rates for SIDC members !

This threw my idea of creating a 12 month calender along with offloading many places for Bedford (via the MLR) out of the window

On Monday morning Lee telephoned me to discuss Bedford and Oulton.....our dialema was this....

We had already paid £2800 to Outlon.

Bedford wanted £4800 immediately

28 places had been sold for Bedford.

SIDC's finances could not cover all these eventualities.

Lee's suggestion was that we cancel Bedford, switch to Oulton and offer people who'd paid a full refund or a place at Oulton.

I agreed, I then spoke with Liz at Bedford explaining the situation and she was fine with the cancellation but did state when asked that we wouldn't be able to get the event at a reduced rate to keep it going even if we wanted !

I spoke with Lee and much to his relief we put in place the Oulton day.

I posted accordingly on all boards.

I took 9 phone calls from SIDC members/friends, I explained the reasons behind the cancellation.

I made several phone calls to MLR, Easytrack, Track Action and others saying we were now doing Oulton and unfortunately we could not now offer them Oulton park accordingly !

Then Tuesday morning I am informed by Lee that Bedford is back on !! And could I re-sell (again) Oulton park to the other organisations !

At this point I am now becoming aware of how un-organised the SIDC really is, let alone unprofessional ! It obviously at this point makes me look somewhat of a ridicule (careful now ) !

It's for these reasons that I resigned.

According to SIDC there ain't going to be any trackdays next year anyway so why enroll a Motorsports chappie ?

So there you have it !

As far as I'm concerned this is what I believe.

1. SIDC should be made open events TO ALL Marques of car

2. SIDC should team up with MLR/ Easytrack

3. SIDC should have a full 12 month calender of trackdays put in place


I will continue to offer ALL scoobynetters/SIDC peeps trackdays via other organisations and will always endeavour to negotiate preferential rates for us all !

Keep checking the Trackday forum

P.s; Did I mention I drive a Cosworth...........Oooops

gregh

Cheers for the post Chris, the best bit of it all is this:

"I will continue to offer ALL scoobynetters/SIDC peeps trackdays via other organisations and will always endeavour to negotiate preferential rates for us all !"

Best regards and see you on track

Greg

T16GER

Cheers for that Chris, clears up a few issues....

Can fully understand your decision...

Keep us posted on up-coming track days...

carl

Agreed.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

How about a Scoobynet/MLR/Easytrack 12 month calender?

Would anyone here like to help organise it?

SIDC members welcome

CraigH

I'd help organise it as long as WSCC and RSOC are invited too

CraigH

Oh

And GTR and VW - so I can bring the Lupo

Pete Croney

Hi Chris

I fully understand your frustration at how things have gone since Sunday and can see why you chose to resign.

Basically the descision on what was on and what was not should have been referred to you. It is your role and it should have been your descision. The process got twisted, because of Liz contacting Lee, rather than yourself.

The whole track day situation seems to be nothing but hassle, when it should be nothing but enjoyment for members.

As discussed on Sunday, whilst we would prefer to have SIDC days filled with SIDC Subaru owning members, the whole track day scene has changed and this is not going to happen. We have no choice but to accept other marques and you will recall that we even accepted other marques at our National Day.

Where we must draw the line is at allowing cars which at nothing but racing cars, from getting into our days. We drive powerful saloons and my personal preference is for predominately Subaru cars present with some similar cars joining us.

My definition of saloons would be cars with roofs, that are road legal and have a similar performance. Just as that means no Nova's, it also means no single seaters or plastic rockets. I have driven both of the latter two and they have no place in such "slow" traffic as our cars. Its not fun and its an accident waiting to happen.

To conclude, Chris, I really wanted to see your 12 month plan. I am sure that between SIDC, MLR and GTR we could have come up with something that worked well. As you know, we have been badly burnt in the last 18 months and I am accutely aware of the fact that we cannot run another day at a loss.

If you have a plan that can achieve the above, without risk to members funds, I would still love to see it.

And if, after having **Mellowed** on the dross that has passed this week, you reconsider your position, I would welcome you back.

Pete

gregh

>> My definition of saloons would be cars with roofs,

So that cuts out all the Elises then that went to many 'old' SIDC days.

IMHO it's much more fun with a good selection of cars, including Caterhams, Westfields, Elises, Saloons etc etc.

regards,

Greg

CraigH

Pete,

If speed differential bothers you, the same can be said of a 400hp EVO, or a 600hp Skyline.
And then we talk about cars on road tyres and slicks. Corner speed difference is ridiculous.
Then theres the cars with upgraded brakes versus std, which take 10s of yards out of std cars at every braking zone.

You can no more compare a worked over 350hp Scoob/400hp EVO with suspension, brakes, slicks etc to a std Scoob, as you can something like a Westfield or Caterham which you say are to fast.

Only way you could work that is split the day into groups - std/modified up to x hp/modified up to x hp with slicks etc. So then you have to restrict your target audience even more.

If you do have groups for these cars then there would be no problem with Westies etc being in the faster group would there?

As an example, a std Scoob will do something like 1.30 round Donno.
Mellows RA did it in 1.18. 12 secs a lap. Probably about the same difference as a scoob and a quick westie/caterham.

I can't see any validity in your comment unless you restrict all hi powered versions - and the fact they are still saloons is beyond the point - the performance difference is too huge to compare them.

CraigH

Pete,

As another point - your suggestion would rule out Mellows Cossie as well - as it's a competitiotn car?

johnfelstead

Thanks to Chris and Pete for being so open about this.

I think the spec of the cars issues needs carefull thought and this maybe better served by thinking a bit more about it and then coming up with something that everyone is happy with and takes into consideration the real history of, and practicalities of, how diferent types of cars mix on track.

Maybe this is something that should be discussed at a later date with plenty of people who have real experience, rather than going off gut feelings.

I would be more than happy to sit down with whoever would like me to, and put accross my experiences and thoughts on this, having driven everything except a kitchen sink in terms of performance diference on trackdays for a long time.

Lets get bedford out of the way and then take our time to formulate something that is realistic, this week has taught me something important, this is that reacting quickly via the net often makes the results more confusing and frustating, rather than lightning fast and satisfactory.

That's my thoughts on the matter anyway.

EvilBevel

Can I just say this thread clears Arron (with whom I surely don't always agree with) from being the "cause" of Chris resigning ?

Fizz

iTrader: (1)

I think some of the contributing factors to the declines are -

1. Increasing cost of track and road insurance with normal insurance increasingly not covering track days.
2. There was (not now) too many track days.
3. A lot of people are worried about the apparant snooping around of IM with regard to warrenties.
4. Cost of attending for the day (travel, petrol (), brakes, tyres etc.)

I must say these are my oppinions. These times is 'ard and for some of us it is just enough to keep our beloved babies on the road and fuelled without the additional costs of the above!

Fuzz

Ah ! a scape goat...and female Liz it's all your fault
*JOKE*

On a serious note,
What are the associated problems with organising a trackday and advertising it as an "allcomers Trackday".....
then when the punters register interest and hand over dosh, place them in a category to suit their type of car.
On the day each category of car has "time slots" in which to race / drive !!!!!, thus keeping all the noddies together all the out an out race cars together etc, etc.
How many groups / categories would depend on the mixture of what's running I suppose ?

keeps everyone happy too


Andy

EvilBevel

And at the risk of outstayin my welcome...

John, Pete... I do understand your concern of (mainly) safety.

But, as it is, it's all about attitude on a track, not horsepower or roofs.

JF would melt my super car in his sport, let alone his STi. But he wouldn't bring me into a hairy situation, proving "Oh I'm so ****ing fast around here". It's about understanding what a trackday is about.

That is the crux for me.

I hope Chris stays on, and SIDC has a lot of great trackdays next year (multimarque)

TaviaRS

WooHoo, a track all to myself!

TKH

Oh dear this ones got all the signs of storms and tea cups

The best and most friendly track days i have attended have been those organised by the SIDC(Stef)to be precise and i like many others think it is unfortunate that this year has been a bit lacking in SIDC days for whatever reason however we should not just throw the towel in and turn our back on years of hard work by all the commitee.

What needs to be done is a bit of face to face discussion and a plan to be drawn up and diary dates to be planned further in advance we should be planning 2003 now.

And if the costs have gone up then put the prices up those who know good value will pay (upfront)and thouroughly enjoy themselves and if there is enough advanced notice of the planned dates take up will not be an issue, and if it is an issue then yes team up with MLR i know they drive sub standard machines but hey there a good bunch and at least give you something to look at in the rear view mirror

Please do not let this one get out of control.

Regards

Tim